(OT) Who was 'Pappy' (the fellow combat infantryman in my father's WWII memoir)?

[darksabre]

My paternal grandfather was a dock worker in California for the Navy and my grandmother worked at Westinghouse. My maternal grandfather was Army occupation of Japan. Not sure grandma did during wartime.

 

Tidbit: My paternal grandfather changed his name from Podlewski to Powell before joining the Navy because he was afraid of the rampant wartime discrimination against Poles, who many blamed for the US being dragged into the war.

[PASabreFan]

Just wondering: any chance there's an epub version of the book? I'm going to read it, but I'd love to be able to use my reader instead of the tablet or computer.

 

On my Dad's side, my grandfather tried to enlist a few times but was rejected due to a heart condition. Either my great aunt or grandmother worked in the Curtiss (??) factory in Buffalo on planes. (They're both Helen Pie, so I need to verify which one it was). I think my parents still have the aluminium soldering/welding kit in a green toolbox stamped with the name somewhere.

 

I don't know what my mom's side of the family did, I'll have to ask my mom next time she's here.

Sorry, no epub version. Just PDFs for now.

[X. Benedict]

Not sure if I've mentioned this before.  My grandfather was a B-17 pilot in WWII.  Stationed in Scotland.  He was an Army 

 

My wife and I were married on June 29th.  Ceremony was at 6pm, long before I had any knowledge of the crash.

Great story. 

Edited June 2, 2015 by X. Benedict

[ubkev]

My paternal grandfather was a dock worker in California for the Navy and my grandmother worked at Westinghouse. My maternal grandfather was Army occupation of Japan. Not sure grandma did during wartime.

 

Tidbit: My paternal grandfather changed his name from Podlewski to Powell before joining the Navy because he was afraid of the rampant wartime discrimination against Poles, who many blamed for the US being dragged into the war.

Tidbit: My maternal grandfather's family changed their name from Gerrard to Jeror so they could avoid arrest for bootlegging. (nothing to do with the war, I just like that story) That grandfather was in the Navy just like my other grandfather. Like many others, I have no clue what my grandmothers did during the war.

 

My dad ran his restaurant/bar during the draft for Vietnam. If you number got pulled, you could bring your draft card into the restaurant for your complimentary "last meal". My dad has a twisted sense of humor.

Edited June 3, 2015 by ubkev

[PASabreFan]

Quick update. My request for Fred Scott's Deceased Personnel File is still in limbo. Supposed to take up to 48 weeks and I put in my request late May 2015. I just spoke to someone in Fort Knox, KY, and the file has still not been retrieved and sent yet from the records center in Suitland, MD.

 

Meanwhile, Pappy and I aren't getting younger.

[That Aud Smell]

Never saw this thread - didn't know about your Dad's memoir.

 

Very cool, all of it.

[K-9]

Never saw this thread - didn't know about your Dad's memoir.

 

Very cool, all of it.

I still can't read BRAWNDO's post about his patient without tearing up. We are quickly coming upon the day when there won't be any more of these guys left. Quite the wisdom drain. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

PAS,

 

The work your doing is important and this kind of history should not be lost. I am part of a cross boarder family. I have close family in Canada and in the States. I am also an ancestry member and a good amateur geneologist and will also do some snooping for you and have done similar research in the past. I would also love to read to book.

 

In my case, I had a great Uncle (US Army) and a first cousin of my father's (Canadian Army) who both landed on the Normandy beaches. Sadly my cousin died a month later after being shot by a German Sniper. He was 25. His story is both brave and poignant. He was a happy and gregarious person according to my dad. He had been wounded multiple time in previous battles and kept getting sent back to the same hospital in England. There he charmed a nurse during his multiple visits and married her during the war. Sadly, she never re-married and died in 1986. An article about him was published in the Toronto Observer back in 2011.

 

Through ancestry and other sources I was able to uncover their marriage license, her death records, and his military records. Don't give up. I swell with pride everytime I think about my Uncle and cousin. They risked so much for freedom and their accomplishments should never be forgetton or taken for granted.

Edited August 27, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[Neo]

PA where is the memoir available? I'm a huge fan of military history and love reading first person accounts, particularly about WWII.

A few years ago I had a patient who I had to tell there was nothing unless we could do for his metastatic cancer. I knew he was a WWII Vet, but I did not know the details. I said I'm sorry about the news I had just delivered, he smiled at me and said

"Doc, I was on the first Higgins Boat that landed in Easy Green Sector Omaha Beach, June 6, 1944. Out of the first ten guys to leave the boat I was the only one who made it out of the surf. I survived that day and was able to marry the girl of my dreams, be the father to five great kids, grandfather to twelve and great grandfather to seven and counting. I got to live a full life, feel sorry for my brothers who didn't. Thanks for everything you have done for me"

I mumbled something along the lines of your welcome and left the room and headed to the nearest stairwell. Once there it took me fifteen minutes to regain my composure. I had read the book the greatest generation, but did not truly appreciate it until that moment.

The resurrection of this thread brought me to your post. Most wonderful.

[PASabreFan]

PAS,

 

The work your doing is important and this kind of history should not be lost. I am part of a cross boarder family. I have close family in Canada and in the States. I am also an ancestry member and a good amateur geneologist and will also do some snooping for you and have done similar research in the past. I would also love to read to book.

 

In my case, I had a great Uncle (US Army) and a first cousin of my father's (Canadian Army) who both landed on the Normandy beaches. Sadly my cousin died a month later after being shot by a German Sniper. He was 25. His story is both brave and poignant. He was a happy and gregarious person according to my dad. He had been wounded multiple time in previous battles and kept getting sent back to the same hospital in England. There he charmed a nurse during his multiple visits and married her during the war. Sadly, she never re-married and died in 1986. An article about him was published in the Toronto Observer back in 2011.

 

Through ancestry and other sources I was able to uncover their marriage license, her death records, and his military records. Don't give up. I swell with pride everytime I think about my Uncle and cousin. They risked so much for freedom and their accomplishments should never be forgetton or taken for granted.

Thanks! I hope that I will need further assistance. If I can prove that Fred Scott is Pappy, I will try to find any of his family that is left.

 

You can download a PDF of the book here: http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/20923-things-that-are-awesome/?p=587375

[GASabresIUFAN]

PAS,

 

Here is a link to a great resource; it's the entire History of 3rd Division.  https://archive.org/stream/HistoryOfTheThirdID#page/n501/mode/2up It includes the entire roster for 7th Infantry.  

[PASabreFan]

PAS,

 

Here is a link to a great resource; it's the entire History of 3rd Division.  https://archive.org/stream/HistoryOfTheThirdID#page/n501/mode/2up It includes the entire roster for 7th Infantry.  

Thanks! That's a nice find. My dad always talked about a yearbook of sorts that was published after the war. Orders were taken near the end of the war, then the book was mailed to him after he got home. He said it was published by the Infantry Journal Press and had rosters of names. He lost his copy and we searched long and hard for it online. I never could find it. I'm almost 100 percent sure my dad saw this Taggart book and said it wasn't THE yearbook, but I am thinking it has to be it. The Nathan White Seventh Regiment book was the one he really loved though. Just about wore it out.

[North Buffalo]

Wonderful story Brawndo. My Dad, who is still alive at 82, was a Navy Frogman EOD. His team would get assigned to UDT teams a predessors to the seals. He has told me about flying in AWACs planes and hating them, as well as training in Long Beach Harbor demining it it the 50s, as well as pulling up an unexploded Japanese turpedo from the attack of Pearl. He said he was also on carriers trained to disarm the first Nuclear missles.... But not about any missions... Except his brothers acknowledge he was special forces though he down plays it uncomfortably.

 

For his 80th Birthday, we met a Navy Seal near Oceanside, CA where he lives now and he sent us to Bullshirts in Coronado Bay... They had the perfect shirt in Blue with Gold lettering.... A sillotted frogman with a machine gun on the back with the words "Original Frogman" and a small patch that read Navy EOD.... Pretty amazing.....

Edited August 28, 2016 by North Buffalo

[SarasotaSabre]

wonderful story, and one of the BEST thread I've ever seen here. I hope you all know the story of Matt Urban, who I am almost ashamed to admit I did not know of until I visited his memorial plaque at the Buffalo Naval Park on 7.30.16.

 

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Urban    (please read in its entirety...!!)

 

Folklore has it that Audie Murphy was the most decorated/recognized combat soldier in WW2; that's patently false, and it's only because Hollywood chose to make him the subject of more than 40 feature films and one television series.

I'm proud, as a Buffalonian,  beyond belief, of Lt. Col. Matt Urban.....

[PASabreFan]

I failed to update this thread. I received Fred Scott's Deceased Personnel File in June of 2017. It took about two years to get the file, when it was supposed to take one. (The military did apologize, which was nice.)

 

Since I knew a fair amount about the circumstances surrounding Fred's death, I was hoping that there would be some kind of action report that would confirm that he was Pappy. There wasn't. But Fred's cause of death was a gunshot wound to the right hip, and that almost certainly rules him out as Pappy. My dad wrote that he saw a bit of blood on the front of Pappy's shirt and a trickle of blood coming from his mouth, which would suggest that Pappy was shot in the chest.

 

Private Fred A. Scott of Port Angeles, Washington was killed in combat on March 15, 1945, in the vicinity of Ormersville, France. A few days later he was buried in St. Avold, France — Plot B, Row 17, Grave 201, between Edgar Petrey and Jack. A Thomas. His personal effects included 24 photos, two wallets, a Combat Infantryman Badge, five letters and a rosary. He had $33.69, and that amount was sent to his mother in a check. That the military kept track of everything so precisely, most important of all, of course, his body, is demonstrated impressively in the file.

 

In 1948, Fred's mother, Mabel, received a letter from the Quartermaster General, asking about her wishes regarding final disposition of her son's body. She wanted to bring him home, and most of the file deals with Fred's journey back to the state of Washington. His body was delivered to Burlington, WA, on June 10, 1949, aboard the Great Northern Railroad, with a military escort.

 

As tempted as I am to keep searching, I think it's time to let Pappy rest in peace.

 

There's a theory I heard recently that we die three deaths. The first is when our body ceases to function. The second is when we are buried (or cremated), never to be seen again. The third is when we are never thought of again by the living.

 

Pappy and Fred, you're still kickin', boys. You are not forgotten.

[dudacek]

In terms of travel time, Port Angeles is the nearest American community to me.

[woods-racer]

I hope you'll give it another try PA, but understand if you don't.

[PASabreFan]

In terms of travel time, Port Angeles is the nearest American community to me.

That's a funny coincidence.

I hope you'll give it another try PA, but understand if you don't.

The thing is, if all World War II files are like this one, there's no way to really confirm anything. Even if another man's record said cause of death was gunshot wound to the chest, it wouldn't be confirmation. My idea was to find descendants and get them the book. I'd have to be 100% or almost 100% certain I have the right guy.

[North Buffalo]

only other way is to find guys from his unit that knew gp and may have known part of the story? Good luck neat story. PS Use to know Lou Puller, Chesty Puller’s son.... most decorated Marine in US Hx. Lou was also a Marine and Pentagon Lawyer. He lost his legs incountry in Vietnam by a booby trap but survived. Unfortunately, Lou took his life later on due to depression. He wrote a book about his experiences entitled “Fortunate Son” as son of Chesty and a Marine lawyer. He and Sen. Bob Kerry were hospitalized together.... story goes they got so bored convalescing... they lit model airplanes on fire and sent them out the windows of the top floor of Walter Reed Hospital. Crazy Marines!

[Eleven]

PA, I know that this is somewhat of a serious thread, but Plot B, Row 17, Grave 201 happens to be where my Sabres tickets are.

[SwampD]

PA, I know that this is somewhat of a serious thread, but Plot B, Row 17, Grave 201 happens to be where my Sabres tickets are.

Dude,...

 

Yes.

 

 

:lol:

[PASabreFan]

I laughed.

[woods-racer]

That's a funny coincidence.

The thing is, if all World War II files are like this one, there's no way to really confirm anything. Even if another man's record said cause of death was gunshot wound to the chest, it wouldn't be confirmation. My idea was to find descendants and get them the book. I'd have to be 100% or almost 100% certain I have the right guy.

 

It's not the results, it's the journey that will bring you the greatest joy.

[Eleven]

I laughed.

 

Good.

 

I hope we meet sometime.

[bob_sauve28]

In the Awesome thread, Ghost mentioned re-reading my dad's World War II memoir over Memorial Day. Others chimed in with some kind words. Thanks again. "Pappy" is the name my dad gave to his best friend during the war. My dad called him a hero for taking him under his wing and mentoring him from the start, protecting him.

 

The mentions reminded me that after the book was printed, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out Pappy's real name. I wanted to get a copy of the book to any of his descendants, maybe his kids. I got nowhere. It was a long shot.

 

The only clues I have are that my dad remembered that Pappy was in his late 20s — hence the "old man" nickname — and hailed from "out west." My dad determined through his research, using the official history of the Seventh Regiment (Third Division), that Pappy died on March 15, 1945.

 

The regimental history lists those killed in action by date. Six members of his company (K) died that day. This is where deciphering history gets interesting. Only one of the men came from what I would consider "out west." Fred A. Scott of Port Angeles, Washington. Others came from Illinois, Michigan, Brooklyn, North Carolina and Kentucky. My dad had a great memory, but maybe "midwest" turned into "out west" in his memory. I was able to rule out the man from Illinois. He had an unusual name, and I found out he was even younger than my dad. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=106881021

 

I am foggy on the details, but in my original quest more than 10 years ago, I thought the Michigan man was a hot lead. I wrote a letter to a family member; the connection was shot down, but I don't remember why. So everything points to Fred Scott — except if it's the same Fred Scott from the 1940 census in Port Angeles, he was only two years older than my dad. Again — memory can be faulty. To a kid right out of high school entering combat in World War II, maybe someone just a couple of years older, with over a year's combat under his belt, would have seemed much older. Like my dad said, by the time he turned 21 near the end of the war, he felt like he was 50.

 

I didn't know anything about a Freedom of Information Act request to get a soldier's Individual Deceased Personnel File until today. So I filed one for Fred Scott. I hope there are enough details in the file to confirm that he was Pappy. I did feel a little strange making the request. Invasion of privacy? Would the descendants, if I can ever find any, be bothered that I "snooped around"? But I concluded that since the information is available to the public, and the man has been dead for over 70 years, and I'm trying to do something good here, I shouldn't feel bad.

 

It's going to be awhile, I'm sure, before anything comes back. I'll update. Meanwhile, if anyone's done research like this and can offer additional advice, please feel free. I do have Fred's serial number.

 

I didn't want to clog up the Awesome thread with this and thought it might be an interesting summer diversion/unsolved mystery. It could certainly branch out to similar stories some of you might have, genealogy success stories, tips and tricks, and so on.

 

Thanks for reading all that. SDS pays me by the word. It comes out of chz's per diem, but she hasn't caught on yet.

 

Wasn't there a fire in St Louis in like 1947 where a bunch of the servicemens records were lost? That's been my understanding for awhile as dad was in WW2 and two grand dads were in the first WW. Great post hope your search goes well and keep us posted

Not sure if I've mentioned this before.  My grandfather was a B-17 pilot in WWII.  Stationed in Scotland.  He was an Army reservist that signed up for flight school when war broke out.  Flew two bombing missions in support of the D-Day invasion.  And then spent most of his air time over occupied Europe.  He died shortly after the war in a crash into the Gulf of Mexico in a bad weather training mission in a B-29 when they were still referred to as Widow Makers.  I never spoke much with my Grandmother about him because when I did, she cried while speaking of him.  

 

About 5-6 years ago I got curious enough to seek out internet resources.  Found through the military heritage database what unit he was in.  Found a forum dedicated to his air wing.  And, found out that there is a museum in Arizona dedicated to his unit.  Contacted the museum and got photos of him and his crew.  Turns out Gramps piloted a fairly famous bomber.  When James Cagney starred in a movie called The Yankee Doodle Dandy, the war department used it as a PR opportunity and had Cagney christen a B-17 that was given the name Yankee Doodle Dandy.  It was a pretty big media event at the time.  My grandfather ended up flying that plane over occupied Europe until it was too damaged to continue, 12 missions in that aircraft.  The website for the museum was a great resource. Had all of the missions for his crew listed.  Had all of the crew members listed.  I started a search to see if i could find any of his old crew members.  I never did get in touch with any of them.  One had an obituary online that was just a few weeks old.  I wish I had gotten curious sooner.

 

Here is where it got interesting.  I found a forum for the 9th Air Force and posted a thread asking if anyone had information regarding my grandfather.  A woman replied.  Her mother was a Red Cross volunteer that responded to the aftermath of my grandfather's crash in Sarasota!  She had in her possession the accident report of the crash of my grandfathers plane.  The short version of her story was, her father was the commanding officer at the base.  Her mother was a volunteer.  The accident occurred on a Friday late afternoon after most of the base personnel had left for the weekend.  The initial responders were few.  They met during the rescue and recovery efforts, started a relationship, and married.  Her mother kept the story and documents pertaining to the crash because it was instrumental in her finding the man she would spend the rest of her life with.  I requested, and she sent me, a copy of the crash report.  All 57 pages of it.  My grandmother's loss was someone else's gain I guess.

 

Grandfather took off into stormy skies on a Friday at 6:14pm on June 29th.  His last flight lasted 6 minutes.  His last words into the microphone were,"It's so dark I can't see a God damned thing up here". Contact was lost moments later. The plane came down on a shallow sand bar.  6 crew members were rescued. My grandfather was one of two casualties.  When my grandmother called home to tell her father what had happened she asked, "what should I do?".  He replied to her, "Come home, baby". 

 

My wife and I were married on June 29th.  Ceremony was at 6pm, long before I had any knowledge of the crash.

Great stuff!