LTS Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 There are multiple ways you could analyze season ticket prices. 1. Avg. ticket price relative to the payroll. 2. Avg. ticket price relative to the league 3. Avg. ticket price relative to the financial status of the area the team serves 4. Avg. ticket price relative to league performance You might get some different answers in each situation. Which one is best? The simple economics says.. you have a waiting list, raise the prices until you do not have a waiting list. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 What's missing from both the ace TBN reporting and PA/Gorby's posts is any sense of context. How much have the Sabres' prices risen around the NHL during the 5-year period they cite? Where do the Sabres' ticket prices rank after this increase relative to the rest of the NHL (including the Leafs, which PA/Gorby seems to think is some kind of magnanimous community-minded organzation)? What about expenses? How much have payroll and other costs increased during that period? Of course, if you can't get past fear and loathing of the sinister billionaire, you're not going to take the time to understand what's really going on. You might even take things as far as speculating that he might continue the Bills-in-Toronto series, and then claim you never did so. Maybe one of our fancystat guys could come up with a value for every NHL city. I would like to see Season Ticket Price / Median Income for metro area as a percentage....... then divide by points in the standings. Just how much on a relative basis is each fan paying for performance on the ice? I know what my eyes and gut says........what do the analytics say???? I wonder if the Sabres would send out that pamphlet? There are multiple ways you could analyze season ticket prices. 1. Avg. ticket price relative to the payroll. 2. Avg. ticket price relative to the league 3. Avg. ticket price relative to the financial status of the area the team serves 4. Avg. ticket price relative to league performance You might get some different answers in each situation. Which one is best? The simple economics says.. you have a waiting list, raise the prices until you do not have a waiting list. :) Awesome.....I didn't make it all the way down...... Yes...Buffalo is a mature and educated hockey market. We even line up at Noco at 5AM for a tin coin of Adam Mair..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Maybe one of our fancystat guys could come up with a value for every NHL city. I would like to see Season Ticket Price / Median Income for metro area as a percentage....... then divide by points in the standings. Just how much on a relative basis is each fan paying for performance on the ice? I know what my eyes and gut says........what do the analytics say???? I wonder if the Sabres would send out that pamphlet? Awesome.....I didn't make it all the way down...... Yes...Buffalo is a mature and educated hockey market. We even line up at Noco at 5AM for a tin coin of Adam Mair..... Does the metro area include Southern Ontario in the Sabres' case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-fans-need-hug-says-mlse-exec-1.3047449 According to this link, the Leafs already have the highest (for 2013-14) ticket prices in the league. So if the Sabres raise the ticket prices enough, and then give the fans a break one year, are you going to complement the Sabres for giving back to their faithful? http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.com/average-nhl-ticket-prices-2013-2014-season/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-fans-need-hug-says-mlse-exec-1.3047449 Yes, those wonderful Maple Leafs that haven't won a Stanley Cup since 1967 and were ranked by ESPN as the worst major league franchise in North America. http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-are-the-worst-sports-franchise-in-north-america-according-to-espn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Maybe one of our fancystat guys could come up with a value for every NHL city. I would like to see Season Ticket Price / Median Income for metro area as a percentage....... then divide by points in the standings. Just how much on a relative basis is each fan paying for performance on the ice? I know what my eyes and gut says........what do the analytics say???? I wonder if the Sabres would send out that pamphlet? Awesome.....I didn't make it all the way down...... Yes...Buffalo is a mature and educated hockey market. We even line up at Noco at 5AM for a tin coin of Adam Mair..... This would be interesting, but IMHO not terribly relevant. We can't really expect ticket prices to fluctuate based on on-ice performance. Among other factors, team costs don't fluctuate that way. If we want to figure out just how rapacious these sinister billionaires really are, ticket prices and other revenues relative to operating costs would be the best info to have -- although good luck finding that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I just don't get the need to put value on something that someone else is buying. There is only one number that is important. At what price do enough people purchase tickets to maximize the team's income? Anyone trying to place a value on why I and the rest of us buy tickets or what satisfaction we gain from the same is ridiculous. We all do it for a variety of reasons and those that choose not to purchase them also have their own reasons. Any other opinion on what we do with our money is condescending and insulting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 This would be interesting, but IMHO not terribly relevant. We can't really expect ticket prices to fluctuate based on on-ice performance. Among other factors, team costs don't fluctuate that way. If we want to figure out just how rapacious these sinister billionaires really are, ticket prices and other revenues relative to operating costs would be the best info to have -- although good luck finding that out. According to the News, they give gift cards to help offset the price increases. And the Sabres do seem to spend a lot of money. I'm always amazed on what their jersey (sweater) costs must be every year. They crank out customized jerseys for special occasions like it's nobody's business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 According to this link, the Leafs already have the highest (for 2013-14) ticket prices in the league. So if the Sabres raise the ticket prices enough, and then give the fans a break one year, are you going to complement the Sabres for giving back to their faithful? http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.com/average-nhl-ticket-prices-2013-2014-season/ No. It wasn't a financial break. It wasn't about the money. It was a gesture or as the exec said, a "hug." IMHO a nice touch. Not ham-handed in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I just don't get the need to put value on something that someone else is buying. There is only one number that is important. At what price do enough people purchase tickets to maximize the team's income? Anyone trying to place a value on why I and the rest of us buy tickets or what satisfaction we gain from the same is ridiculous. We all do it for a variety of reasons and those that choose not to purchase them also have their own reasons. Any other opinion on what we do with our money is condescending and insulting. It does affect us as well, though. When we go to games we are usually buying resold tickets, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It does affect us as well, though. When we go to games we are usually buying resold tickets, no? The risk is purely on the STH. This year was very bad year for reselling. You could get tickets for games at less than 50% of the STH cost. I agree total with Tom, to each their own and for their own reasons. If Tom gave up smoking and bought season tickets with the money saved and as a reward for quitting, the price he paid was of little concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 It does affect us as well, though. When we go to games we are usually buying resold tickets, no? And its the perfect solution. You are buying at the true market price and its up to you to decide if that price provides you with the appropriate amount of value. If the Sabres truly are selling at a price higher then the market will bear, the purchasers in the resale market will reap the benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I don't understand what on ice performance has to do with ticket prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I don't understand what on ice performance has to do with ticket prices. I know, right? What performance controversy? Who's fracking? What's fracking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I know, right? What performance controversy? Who's fracking? What's fracking? This didn't help at all. What does the team being bad have to do with ticket prices? Also what about fracking? When did this come into things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 This is old hat. Every year you monkeys have to hash this tired out. From today's article: The CBA dictates that clubs that receive revenue sharing must keep pace with the league’s average ticket price. If the teams fall below 75 percent of the average, they “shall be required to submit to the league and Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee a forward-looking three-year business plan to establish a framework for improving its financial performance.” From the article two years ago: Black said the revenue sharing money is a necessity for the Sabres even though the salary cap is going down roughly $6 million next season and the owners’ share of hockey-related revenues has increased from 43 percent to 50 percent under terms of the new CBA.... Black said the team is following a league mandate. “It is important. We’re the smallest U.S.-based market in the NHL. Revenue sharing exists for a market just like Buffalo. … The obligation to grow as a league as a whole still exists. It’s not a written obligation but that’s what we’re trying to do – grow league revenues,” he said. From Ted Black in that same press conference: “I can’t get drunk off of Terry’s wealth and assume that he’s going to live forever and that he’s going to spend money forever,” he said. “This city knows what it’s like whenever the well runs dry, to continue that metaphor, and go through a bankruptcy (something the Sabres experienced in 2003). “My obligation is to make sure I do everything I can to preserve the value of this franchise for multiple owners and multiple team presidents after I’m not here.” They operate the team like a business that's interested in self-preservation, not a charity money hole tax write off for the owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I just renewed my seats, mostly to spite Fake Gorby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I just renewed my seats, mostly to spite Fake Gorby. I thought you lived in Vermont or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I just renewed my seats, mostly to spite Fake Gorby. Fake Gorby is Ted Black. Marketing strikes again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I thought you lived in Vermont or something. New Hampshire. But at least you guessed a New England state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Can Scarlett Johanssen be on my team? Or can I at least kidnap her for a while? I picture you playing the role of Tony Stark, so you had her around for awhile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 IKP, most of the stuff you dig up about revenue sharing is inaccurate or misleading, mostly because Ted Black likes it that way. Note where the a"dictate" leads: nowhere. You don't even get your PP slapped, let alone lose revenue sharing. Here's a good one from 2013. Ted said the Sabres have to balance affordability "against the opportunity to qualify for league revenue sharing." You don't have to raise ticket prices to have that opportunity. The opportunity is there for every team. You qualify or you don't, regardless of whether you meet that 75% threshold. I just wish they'd be honest. They raise prices because they can and because they feel an obligation to grow revenue for the league. Revenue sharing has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 IKP, most of the stuff you dig up about revenue sharing is inaccurate or misleading, mostly because Ted Black likes it that way. Note where the a"dictate" leads: nowhere. You don't even get your PP slapped, let alone lose revenue sharing. Here's a good one from 2013. Ted said the Sabres have to balance affordability "against the opportunity to qualify for league revenue sharing." You don't have to raise ticket prices to have that opportunity. The opportunity is there for every team. You qualify or you don't, regardless of whether you meet that 75% threshold. I just wish they'd be honest. They raise prices because they can and because they feel an obligation to grow revenue for the league. Revenue sharing has nothing to do with it. Do you think teams are indifferent to ending up in a situation where they don't make the 75% threshold and have to submit a 3-year plan to the league? I picture you playing the role of Tony Stark, so you had her around for awhile... Didn't he have Gwynneth (who is also fairly appealing)? Did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Do you think teams are indifferent to ending up in a situation where they don't make the 75% threshold and have to submit a 3-year plan to the league? Didn't he have Gwynneth (who is also fairly appealing)? Did I miss something? I meant "around" as in employed, not necessarily relationship. I'd tell you to go re-watch Iron Man 2, but it wasn't very good, sooooooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Do you think teams are indifferent to ending up in a situation where they don't make the 75% threshold and have to submit a 3-year plan to the league? They fixed the fax machine. Have Chz type it up and send it over. Seriously, I suppose no team wants to subject itself to such oversight. But that's not what Ted was warning about in 2013. He distorted the issue by suggesting the Sabres had to raise ticket prices to qualify for revenue sharing. Do we even know if not raising ticket prices this year would necessarily lead to the Sabres falling short of the 75% threshold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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