PromoTheRobot Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) A ton of people seem to buy tickets just so they can sell them in the after market. I can understand if you've owned seasoned tickets for years, move away temporarily for school or work, and plan to return to the area but that doesn't seem to be the case for the majority. Maybe if the people who fancy themselves amateur scalpers would simply not renew their season tickets all the people who sit on the waiting list for years would actually be able to get season tickets and the arena wouldn't sounds like a library or half filled with fans of the opposing team. It's like a Neo wet dream (no offense intended Neo), everyone is like a tiny venture capitalist trying to take advantage of the emerging market that is the Buffalo Sabres post tank. If that's how you want to play it, that's fine, it's perfectly legal (I assume) and all that but just like in the stock market, sometimes you are going to bust that way. The Sabres thought they were smart capping seasons at 16,000. But now they run ads asking people to buy those 3,000+ tickets, so they are feeling the lack of enthusiasm too. Don't be surprised if that ST cap gets lifted soon. And before you get all high and mighty on those speculators, keep in mind they kept the FNC filled during the tank. All those nights with announced attendance of 17,000+ when the building might have only 8,000 actual fans in attendance. Edited October 23, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 A ton of people seem to buy tickets just so they can sell them in the after market. I can understand if you've owned seasoned tickets for years, move away temporarily for school or work, and plan to return to the area but that doesn't seem to be the case for the majority. Maybe if the people who fancy themselves amateur scalpers would simply not renew their season tickets all the people who sit on the waiting list for years would actually be able to get season tickets and the arena wouldn't sounds like a library or half filled with fans of the opposing team. It's like a Neo wet dream (no offense intended Neo), everyone is like a tiny venture capitalist trying to take advantage of the emerging market that is the Buffalo Sabres post tank. If that's how you want to play it, that's fine, it's perfectly legal (I assume) and all that but just like in the stock market, sometimes you are going to bust that way. Very well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 The Sabres thought they were smart capping seasons at 16,000. But now they run ads asking people to buy those 3,000+ tickets, so they are feeling the lack of enthusiasm too. Don't be surprised if that ST cap gets lifted soon. And before you get all high and mighty on those speculators, keep in mind they kept the FNC filled during the tank. All those nights with announced attendance of 17,000+ when the building might have only 8,000 actual fans in attendance. I'm not trying to be high and mighty about anything, just stating the facts. If people are paying money for tickets with the hope/belief that they will be able to sell the tickets for more money at a later date all they are doing in speculating/gambling. Buying tickets when you never had any intention of attending and the sole purpose is to sell them (hopefully for more than you paid for them) makes you a scalper. And that's perfectly fine, I'm not trying to tell anyone what they can or can't do, but don't whine about it when you lose money. That happens sometimes when you try to buy low and sell high, just like in the stock market. Why buy season tickets if you either can't afford to go to all the games or don't have the time or ability to? Why not buy a mini pack or just buy individual tickets to the games you actually plan on attending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I'm not trying to be high and mighty about anything, just stating the facts. If people are paying money for tickets with the hope/belief that they will be able to sell the tickets for more money at a later date all they are doing in speculating/gambling. Buying tickets when you never had any intention of attending and the sole purpose is to sell them (hopefully for more than you paid for them) makes you a scalper. And that's perfectly fine, I'm not trying to tell anyone what they can or can't do, but don't whine about it when you lose money. That happens sometimes when you try to buy low and sell high, just like in the stock market. Why buy season tickets if you either can't afford to go to all the games or don't have the time or ability to? Why not buy a mini pack or just buy individual tickets to the games you actually plan on attending? Playoffs, my man, playoffs. Also because I like the people in my section. Even splitting my season three ways, I know I can't get to all of them (in addition to games where I'm someone else's guest or where I'm working). So I know I'm going to sell some or give some to friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I suffered through the tank, taking big losses on my season tickets because I figured the excitement would return once Eichel was here. But I am still losing $10+ a ticket because there is little demand on the secondary market. A Saturday night game for $15?? It hasn't been this bad since the Rigas era. Things better pick up of I'm going to have to give up my seats.My take on it is that the enthusiasm level for the Sabres right now is pretty much where it was in the '90's and pre-lockout '00's. In October there were (almost) ALWAYS empty sections in the corners of the 100's & 300's. Attendance picked up a bit in November and December and after the holidays (and sometimes before depending on how bad the Bills were) attendance really picked up. The last 15 games would be nearly sellouts/sellouts and playoff time was loud and fun. (Aside: It used to be a bit of a game going to the game and sitting in the 300's - predict whether the normal beer stand would be open. If attendance was expected to be sub ~14.5k, a lot of the 300 level beer stands weren't opened/staffed. If Atlanta was in on a Saturday in December, it was a pretty safe bet the stand wouldn't be opened. Loafs any night it was a given the stands would all be open. Bruins on a Thursday in November was a crap shoot.) That '05-'06 team started the same way attendance wise (actually, it seemed a bit worse as a lot of STHers cancelled their seats). It was around March that the fever really struck and it remained no matter how bad (or good) the product was until they were into the tank. The tank definitely has hurt ST enthusiasm, though once it started it had to be completed to bring LT enthusiasm back up. I fully expect this season's 2ndary ticket demand pattern to mimic that of the attendance pattern of the '90's. If that is the case, you'll have difficulty selling tix until about January but there will be demand in winter '16. It'll be interesting to see how infectious the late season enthusiam remains into October. My guess is next season will start similarly to this one, but as I expect playoffs next season; that one could follow '05-'06's script. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Could it be that It's only game 7 and there are a lot of fans that don't even realize the season started yet? And yes I would still call those people fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Could it be that It's only game 7 and there are a lot of fans that don't even realize the season started yet? And yes I would still call those people fans. It's October. I think there was an Oct game in 2005, and half the place was empty for Danny Gare's sweater retirement. It will pick up. The season for most U.S. fans start once the college bowl games are announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I'm not trying to be high and mighty about anything, just stating the facts. If people are paying money for tickets with the hope/belief that they will be able to sell the tickets for more money at a later date all they are doing in speculating/gambling. Buying tickets when you never had any intention of attending and the sole purpose is to sell them (hopefully for more than you paid for them) makes you a scalper. And that's perfectly fine, I'm not trying to tell anyone what they can or can't do, but don't whine about it when you lose money. That happens sometimes when you try to buy low and sell high, just like in the stock market. Why buy season tickets if you either can't afford to go to all the games or don't have the time or ability to? Why not buy a mini pack or just buy individual tickets to the games you actually plan on attending? Why should I spend hundreds of dollars when I can attend for free? At least that was the plan that worked for years. Besides why should I risk getting sold out of a game I want to see? What disturbs me is seeing that many opposing fans when prices are so depressed. I can see a Sabres fan grabbing the cash by selling their Leafs and Habs tickets. But what does it say when people are probably losing money on the deal? It tells me that there are wayyyy more speculators than Sabres fans. That's frightening. Edited October 24, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Why should I spend hundreds of dollars when I can attend for free? At least that was the plan that worked for years. Besides why should I risk getting sold out of a game I want to see? What disturbs me is seeing that many opposing fans when prices are so depressed. I can see a Sabres fan grabbing the cash by selling their Leafs and Habs tickets. But what does it say when people are probably losing money on the deal? It tells me that there are wayyyy more speculators than Sabres fans. That's frightening. Stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Why should I spend hundreds of dollars when I can attend for free? At least that was the plan that worked for years. Besides why should I risk getting sold out of a game I want to see? What disturbs me is seeing that many opposing fans when prices are so depressed. I can see a Sabres fan grabbing the cash by selling their Leafs and Habs tickets. But what does it say when people are probably losing money on the deal? It tells me that there are wayyyy more speculators than Sabres fans. That's frightening. Says the speculator. Or is buying seasons so you can 'attend 3-4 a year for free' not speculation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Says the speculator. Or is buying seasons so you can 'attend 3-4 a year for free' not speculation? I don't get it. Why can't it be both? Why can't he be a fan and a speculator? Who cares why he buys seasons? I'm sure he has many reasons and they are all wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I don't get it. Why can't it be both? Why can't he be a fan and a speculator? Who cares why he buys seasons? I'm sure he has many reasons and they are all wonderful. Which part of my statement says he's not a fan? His fandom isn't referred to in the post you are quoting. You are asking the wrong person why it has to be an either or. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I certainly don't think there's anything immoral or unethical about PTR's approach here. I just think the economics are untenable -- and even though it worked for him in the past, it hasn't worked for the past few years, and, more importantly, ticket prices have steadily risen in a stagnant economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) I'm not telling anyone they can't speculate, just don't expect sympathy when you lose money, especially when you come on here bragging about making money off selling tickets and attending games for free. People like that are exactly why opposing fans fill the stadium and the atmosphere is crap. I hope you all lose money. Edited October 25, 2015 by Drunkard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I certainly don't think there's anything immoral or unethical about PTR's approach here. I just think the economics are untenable -- and even though it worked for him in the past, it hasn't worked for the past few years, and, more importantly, ticket prices have steadily risen in a stagnant economy. it is certainly not unethical. But I'm not interested in hearing anyone doing this complain about opposing fans in the stands or losing money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 it is certainly not unethical. But I'm not interested in hearing anyone doing this complain about opposing fans in the stands or losing money. Precisely this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 it is certainly not unethical. But I'm not interested in hearing anyone doing this complain about opposing fans in the stands or losing money. I'm sure that Promo has a Fan CheckTM to ensure that everyone he sells his tickets to on Stub Hub are Sabres fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Says the speculator. Or is buying seasons so you can 'attend 3-4 a year for free' not speculation?It's not when my goal is breaking even. Maybe more "real fans" need to step up and buy season tickets? It's not like they couldn't have before. Edited October 25, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 It's not when my goal is breaking even. Maybe more "real fans" need to step up and buy season tickets? It's not like they couldn't have before. They can't. There's a multi year waiting list because too many people want to play amateur scalper so they can pick and choose a handful of games to attend while guaranteeing themselves playoff tickets. Also, if you are bragging about attending games for free you are not just trying to break even. You are trying to make money on certain games to fund your ticket prices to other games. Again, you are completely within your rights to do so but don't expect sympathy when you lose money. You and people like you are the reason the stands are filled with fans of opposing fans and the arena sounds like a library half the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Hey PTR, just for the sake of consistency, be sure to brag about how much you're fleecing Sabres fans for tickets over STH prices when the team's doing well. I mean, it's your business, but keep putting it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 You know how I became a season ticket holder? I got on the wait list. And right right after Drury and Briere left town, when all the real fans bailed, I got my chance to buy. So sorry if I don't shed a tear for those who can't buy right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 You know how I became a season ticket holder? I got on the wait list. And right right after Drury and Briere left town, when all the real fans bailed, I got my chance to buy. So sorry if I don't shed a tear for those who can't buy right now. That's fine. Just don't expect us to shed a tear for you losing $10+ per ticket. Maybe if you give up your tickets like you were complaining about possibly having to do in post #122 the next person in line who buys them will hopefully buy them with the intent of actually going to the games and not buy them with the intention of selling most of them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) That's fine. Just don't expect us to shed a tear for you losing $10+ per ticket. Maybe if you give up your tickets like you were complaining about possibly having to do in post #122 the next person in line who buys them will hopefully buy them with the intent of actually going to the games and not buy them with the intention of selling most of them off.Oh you think that will happen? Then let me ask you this: Where are those fans now? They are certainly not attending games. Let's take the Canadiens game for example. Tickets were going for as little as $20 but the FNC was filled with Habs jerseys. Why? If anything the place should have been packed with rabid Sabres fans taking advantage of the huge savings off the regular box office prices, right? So what happened? My theory is the tank blew off a sizable portion of the fan base. Chet and Muffy have moved on, apparently. Seems that Eichel, Kane and O'Reilly have yet to inspire the masses. So your argument that speculators are preventing real fans from going to games is specious because those same fans have every opportunity to attend games now, at a discount no less, but choose not to. In fact speculators might actuality be propping up the Sabres ticket base. Edited October 26, 2015 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Oh you think that will happen? Then let me ask you this: Where are those fans now? They are certainly not attending games. Let's take the Canadiens game for example. Tickets were going for as little as $20 but the FNC was filled with Habs jerseys. Why? If anything the place should have been packed with rabid Sabres fans taking advantage of the huge savings off the regular box office prices, right? So what happened? My theory is the tank blew off a sizable portion of the fan base. Chet and Muffy have moved on, apparently. Seems that Eichel, Kane and O'Reilly have yet to inspire the masses. So your argument that speculators are preventing real fans from going to games is specious because those same fans have every opportunity to attend games now, at a discount no less, but choose not to. In fact speculators might actuality be propping up the Sabres ticket base. Is this mystery really a hard to solve? It's October and it is a losing team coming off two last place finishes. What were you expecting? You can always donate the tickets to some great charities so kids can see the games and you get the full face value for tax deduction. C'mon man. Give em to the kids. Edited October 26, 2015 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Is this mystery really a hard to solve? It's October and it is a losing team coming off two last place finishes. What were you expecting? You can always donate the tickets to some great charities so kids can see the games and you get the full face value for tax deduction. C'mon man. Give em to the kids. There is some truth that Buffalo is a Bills town until January. But c'mon, we have Eichel now. Where is the enthusiasm for him? Where's the buy-in like the Bills got with Rex and company? So if understand your position correctly speculators are evil because they sell to opposing fans, preventing loyal fans from attending, but loyal fans can't be expected to care enough in October coming off the tank? Mmm-kay. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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