Season Ticket Renewals

[MattPie]

I think that's an entirely fair and even... wait, wut... WE WON THREE CUPS!!!!!!!!

 

Hey, I'm an optimist. :)

[Drunkard]

How did the Wilson's wealth compare to the Pegula's?  Ralph thought long and hard about that inheritance tax and how it would affect his children and arranged for the team to be sold.  Don't discount the affect that inheritance tax would have.

 

And this, too.

 

Ralph's money was mostly from owning the Bills. He bought the team for something like $50,000 and the majority of his wealth stemmed from owning the team. Pegula doesn't have that problem and he spent something like a third of his worth on the Bills and not even 1/10 on the Sabres. He or Kim can definitely will the team to their kids they just need a couple of high dollars CPAs and estate attorneys to figure out the details.

[woods-racer]

Ralph's money was mostly from owning the Bills. He bought the team for something like $50,000 and the majority of his wealth stemmed from owning the team. Pegula doesn't have that problem and he spent something like a third of his worth on the Bills and not even 1/10 on the Sabres. He or Kim can definitely will the team to their kids they just need a couple of high dollars CPAs and estate attorneys to figure out the details.

 

In order for that to work they would have to start the process now, while the kids are young-ish. 

 

Ralph may have wanted to give the team to his daughter (Mary?) and may have been gifting the team to her slowly over several years, but she died about 10 years ago. Any one else in his family that wanted the team, or he wanted to leave the team to, would have to pay the state of NY approximately 50% of the value of the franchise. Time was not on their side for tax purposes. Why burden your family with a tax bill that great, whether you have the money or not? It's not fair the survivors and it's really bad business.

 

I also believe that Ralph's estate was vast. He had several very nice land holdings (malls?) and an art collection that where left when he passed. That did't included any assets passed to other surviving family members prior to his passing that would have been done for tax purposes. I believe he had 2 other daughters that where involved in other family business outside the Bills along with grandchildren.

[PromoTheRobot]

Ralph's money was mostly from owning the Bills. He bought the team for something like $50,000 and the majority of his wealth stemmed from owning the team. Pegula doesn't have that problem and he spent something like a third of his worth on the Bills and not even 1/10 on the Sabres. He or Kim can definitely will the team to their kids they just need a couple of high dollars CPAs and estate attorneys to figure out the details.

Ralph actually made his bones in trucking and insurance. But he was nowhere near as wealthy as the Pegulas.  A friend had an interesting take on why Ralph was so cheap. He said, if he were Ralph, he would take out massive loans using the Bills as collateral.  That way he gets to enjoy his asset while he's alive.  He said Ralph probably had big interest payments to make every year.  No proof but an interesting theory.

[beerme1]

Thanks Drunkard that is a similar answer to what I would have said.

 

 

In order for that to work they would have to start the process now, while the kids are young-ish. 

 

Ralph may have wanted to give the team to his daughter (Mary?) and may have been gifting the team to her slowly over several years, but she died about 10 years ago. Any one else in his family that wanted the team, or he wanted to leave the team to, would have to pay the state of NY approximately 50% of the value of the franchise. Time was not on their side for tax purposes. Why burden your family with a tax bill that great, whether you have the money or not? It's not fair the survivors and it's really bad business.

 

I also believe that Ralph's estate was vast. He had several very nice land holdings (malls?) and an art collection that where left when he passed. That did't included any assets passed to other surviving family members prior to his passing that would have been done for tax purposes. I believe he had 2 other daughters that where involved in other family business outside the Bills along with grandchildren.

 

I would bet the process has indeed already started. That's why you pay your advisors. They have the money there will not be a burden noticeable to them. And who knows what the tax the laws are at that time.

[woods-racer]

Thanks Drunkard that is a similar answer to what I would have said.

 

 

 

I would bet the process has indeed already started. That's why you pay your advisors. They have the money there will not be a burden noticeable to them. And who knows what the tax the laws are at that time.

 

It helps if the inheritor wants the franchise(s) and not the money. Secondly, in the process of gifting shares of  stock to a privately owned family company to future heirs the owner of the company at some point is no longer in control before they die. Not all owners have the faith in their heirs to allow them the total control they are used to. 

 

It takes an owner willing to do it will unshakable trust in their heirs, and heirs willing to work side by side with the owner. Why at best it's 50/50. 

[Taro T]

Back to PTR's topic: had a tough time selling tix in the 1st few games of the season for games I couldn't attend. Even gave a pair to charity for 1. But anything that's been on StubHub since mid-November has gone for close to window price.

 

Secondary market seems to be recovering. Primary market, not so much. Announced crowd for LA was only about 18,150. 300 corners were pretty sparse.

 

Now that Bills are done, demand for Sabres should continue to go up.

[PromoTheRobot]

Back to PTR's topic: had a tough time selling tix in the 1st few games of the season for games I couldn't attend. Even gave a pair to charity for 1. But anything that's been on StubHub since mid-November has gone for close to window price.

 

Secondary market seems to be recovering. Primary market, not so much. Announced crowd for LA was only about 18,150. 300 corners were pretty sparse.

 

Now that Bills are done, demand for Sabres should continue to go up.

Just for giggles I looked at other teams like Detroit for comparison. Even there midweek games can be had for $12, and that's a great hockey market. 

[Taro T]

Just for giggles I looked at other teams like Detroit for comparison. Even there midweek games can be had for $12, and that's a great hockey market.

 

It is, but they've been good so long it's a weird market. They've had some issues selling 1st round playoff tix recently. (But can't recall if that was primary market (thought it was) or just 2ndary.)