Hoss Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 The negative opinion of Myers from this board is certainly the minority. Myers is a huge guy playing as a solid #2 or #3 for this entire season and much of last season. We are a rebuilding team, not a get rid of anyone that's not a rookie team Every time I see a fan from another team talking about trading for him they bitch and moan about not wanting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Murray said in his first few months on the job that Myers has the potential to be a really good player if you surround him with the right people. It was talked about in depth on GR how a really good player makes those around him better, you don't expect him to need to hold someone else's hand. What have we seen the past few years? "Tallinder might get him going!" "Gorges will be good for him!" People keep hanging on to some crazy hope.....meanwhile, the guy has 1 goal this season and is averaging 25+ minutes. Here is an article from the top writer at The Hockey News suggesting that Myers should be thought of a buyout candidate in the offseason, written less than a year ago........ http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/murray-needs-to-boldy-tear-down-sabres-to-build-them-up/ Ken Campbell?!? The top writer at THN?!? :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Your frustration makes sense if there were a lot of people claiming Myers was a one, but I just don't see that anywhere. I think most of us thought/hoped Myers would be a number one during his first two seasons, wondered if he was total bust in the next two, and have settled on him as being a useful 2/3 like he has shown under Ted. Personally, the way Murray describes him in the article upthread matches how I see him. I don't expect him to get two firsts and Mike Bossy. I just don't want to trade him unless there is a better player than him coming back - and I'm not talking about a potentially better player. ###### another trade for more futures. We have a lot of futures already; we don't have many real NHL players. Myers is one of them. Again, eventually we need to transition from future asset collecting mode to actually rostering an NHL team. Myers is still young, a relatively good player and under contract for a number of years going forward. If the rebuild isn't going to take a decade, then Myers is someone you keep around to be a continuity force and play 2nd pairing minutes if/when Risto/Zad take over 1st pairing. Unless GMTM can trade Myers for a equally controlled, young NHL forward, then there won't be a deal. making that trade doesn't seem likely based on the trade market chatter. Draft picks don't do much for me in this trade because they are 2-3 years away from even seeing the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Every time I see a fan from another team talking about trading for him they bitch and moan about not wanting him. Most fans from other teams don't watch him much. They think Myers is the player he was two or three years ago and measure his play by his stat line. Because of that, they think they can have him cheap and maybe get a big return on a small investment. They get offended when you say you're not interested in their 12-goal third-line left winger and eighth-best prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Murray said in his first few months on the job that Myers has the potential to be a really good player if you surround him with the right people. It was talked about in depth on GR how a really good player makes those around him better, you don't expect him to need to hold someone else's hand. What have we seen the past few years? "Tallinder might get him going!" "Gorges will be good for him!" People keep hanging on to some crazy hope.....meanwhile, the guy has 1 goal this season and is averaging 25+ minutes. Here is an article from the top writer at The Hockey News suggesting that Myers should be thought of a buyout candidate in the offseason, written less than a year ago........ http://www.thehockey...-build-them-up/ From the article: "Where Murray would have to swallow hard is with Myers, who is just 23 and could very well flourish with another team if he were to leave." Myers could very well flourish with this team when it's finally built too. Ken Campbell?!? The top writer at THN?!? :huh: Like number 60 in the top 25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ken Campbell?!? The top writer at THN?!? :huh: I don't read it. Who is the person there if I missed? His title is Senior Writer and Editor. That's all I know. Myers could very well flourish with this team when it's finally built too. And the 2010-2012 Chz and I could turn our sexual tension into a lifetime of soul mate bliss....... Sometimes things change.....and you need to revalue what you see.....not what you remember....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ehrhoff was a #2/3 Dman with 2x the point output, making $4 million a year...... I'm just trying to comprehend the way people cling to and elevate Myers. Maybe I should just accept it, like I accept passing by the Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum in Canada, while hundreds a day pay $20 to go in. Hey....they're probably tourists...why not? Disregarding your earlier snark, Myers is a capable 2/4 defender. He has all the physical talents to be a #1 but lacks the hockey IQ to execute those talents on a regular basis. So I am not clinging to anything, I recognize him for what he is. He is worth a 1st round pick and a prospect all day every day. If you didn't support the buying him out article, that's fine. I'm sorry Liger, but I can't accept that the gif is of Emilia Clarke. It has to be someone else. She's neither blonde, nude or covered in dragons. Carry on. You know nothing Touched by Boyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) You know nothing Touched by Boyes :clapping: Edited January 13, 2015 by Touched by Boyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm sorry Liger, but I can't accept that the gif is of Emilia Clarke. It has to be someone else. She's neither blonde, nude or covered in dragons. Carry on. Early post of the year candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Most fans from other teams don't watch him much. They think Myers is the player he was two or three years ago and measure his play by his stat line. Because of that, they think they can have him cheap and maybe get a big return on a small investment. They get offended when you say you're not interested in their 12-goal third-line left winger and eighth-best prospect. I understand that but the post I responded to said that posters here are the only ones that don't love him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I thought her name was Kelly C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Disregarding your earlier snark, Myers is a capable 2/4 defender. He has all the physical talents to be a #1 but lacks the hockey IQ to execute those talents on a regular basis. So I am not clinging to anything, I recognize him for what he is. He is worth a 1st round pick and a prospect all day every day. If you didn't support the buying him out article, that's fine. You know nothing Touched by Boyes I wasn't snarking you.....I said as I posted it that it was from a year ago....just the fact Leino and Ehrhoff are mentioned should have done it. I have a homework assignment for Myers supporters. Find me "#2/#3" defensemen out there that you compare him to, their contracts, and what you would be willing to give up for them. If you say Myers is worth a 1st round pick and a prospect....OK......tell me who Myers' peers are, and if you would give them a #1 + Reinhart.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 TROGDORRRRRR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 TROGDORRRRRR! That's enough burninating from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ehrhoff was a #2/3 Dman with 2x the point output, making $4 million a year...... I'm just trying to comprehend the way people cling to and elevate Myers. Maybe I should just accept it, like I accept passing by the Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum in Canada, while hundreds a day pay $20 to go in. Hey....they're probably tourists...why not? Without talking Myers up or down at 18 plus minutes a night, and he's -7 on a -47 team. (+40 relative to team OR +.96 PER GAME) The best plus/minus defense-man in the NHL is Shattenkirk in St. Louis at +18 but he's on a +19 team. The only D man with more ice time with a better relative +/_ to team is Mark Giordiano. +1.26 PER Game. Now these are old school stats, but at the very least it should point to Myers having some value. Tyler Myers - not terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Without talking Myers up or down at 18 plus minutes a night, and he's -7 on a -47 team. (+40 relative to team OR +.96 PER GAME) The best plus/minus defense-man in the NHL is Shattenkirk in St. Louis at +18 but he's on a +19 team. The only D man with more ice time with a better relative +/_ to team is Mark Giordiano. +1.26 PER Game. Now these are old school stats, but at the very least it should point to Myers having some value. Tyler Myers - not terrible. I've never heard the +/- stat relative to team +/-, but this sounds like a metric I can get behind much more than just traditional +/-. Usually I ignore +/- because the league leaders are all on the same forward line on the best team. This relative +/- stat might be a little more indicitive to actual play contibution. X - is there a site you are going to for finding this info or is it just a manual calc? I'd be interested in looking at this further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Without talking Myers up or down at 18 plus minutes a night, and he's -7 on a -47 team. (+40 relative to team OR +.96 PER GAME) The best plus/minus defense-man in the NHL is Shattenkirk in St. Louis at +18 but he's on a +19 team. The only D man with more ice time with a better relative +/_ to team is Mark Giordiano. +1.26 PER Game. Now these are old school stats, but at the very least it should point to Myers having some value. Tyler Myers - not terrible. If I were a top say 8 in the NHL team like, Pittsburgh for instance and I had the ability to trade for Giordano or Myers and it was a 1st round and prospect, I do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Without talking Myers up or down at 18 plus minutes a night, and he's -7 on a -47 team. (+40 relative to team OR +.96 PER GAME) The best plus/minus defense-man in the NHL is Shattenkirk in St. Louis at +18 but he's on a +19 team. The only D man with more ice time with a better relative +/_ to team is Mark Giordiano. +1.26 PER Game. Now these are old school stats, but at the very least it should point to Myers having some value. Tyler Myers - not terrible. Does this +/- stat account for the times Myers took the actual penalty and was in the box for a goal against? Also....I am not saying he is terrible. I'm saying, expect strip steak prices for strip steak....not filet mignon prices...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I wasn't snarking you.....I said as I posted it that it was from a year ago....just the fact Leino and Ehrhoff are mentioned should have done it. I have a homework assignment for Myers supporters. Find me "#2/#3" defensemen out there that you compare him to, their contracts, and what you would be willing to give up for them. If you say Myers is worth a 1st round pick and a prospect....OK......tell me who Myers' peers are, and if you would give them a #1 + Reinhart.... Yea cuz the "NOOOOOO SHIIIIIITTTTTTTTTT" comment wasn't anything. First, your trade doesn't make sense. The teams trading for Myers aren't sitting around with a 18yr old #2 overall pick. They might have a 19yr old #12 overall pick if things went well but it isn't the same. Second, on a team about to contend for the cup say Detroit, it is perfectly logical for them to trade Dylan Larkin and a 1st round pick for Tyler Myers or similar player if they believe that will help them win said cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Yea cuz the "NOOOOOO SHIIIIIITTTTTTTTTT" comment wasn't anything. First, your trade doesn't make sense. The teams trading for Myers aren't sitting around with a 18yr old #2 overall pick. They might have a 19yr old #12 overall pick if things went well but it isn't the same. Second, on a team about to contend for the cup say Detroit, it is perfectly logical for them to trade Dylan Larkin and a 1st round pick for Tyler Myers or similar player if they believe that will help them win said cup. I'm sorry for the NS comment at you. You just happened to be the 4th in a line of 4 straight posts that didn't get the point a year ago Myers was being talked about as a buyout, and now everyone wants Marilyn Monroe's bronzed lady parts in return for him..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Does this +/- stat account for the times Myers took the actual penalty and was in the box for a goal against? Also....I am not saying he is terrible. I'm saying, expect strip steak prices for strip steak....not filet mignon prices...... As has been stated multiple times in this thread, $5.5 million is not filet price. Filet price is $7.5+. Myers contract is in the class of Dennis Wideman and Brooks Orpik (lol on that one), not Drew Doughty and Karlsson. Your perception on this one just doesn't meet reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Seabrook, Burns, Niskanen, enstrom, Markov, Keith, Orpik, Wisniewski, Carle, Ekman-Larsson, Myers, Girardi, BOuwmeester, Yandle, Streit, wideman, Byfuglien, Bogosian, Edler, Martin, McDonald, Gonchar - these are guys in Myers salary range $5-6 million per. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 As has been stated multiple times in this thread, $5.5 million is not filet price. Filet price is $7.5+. Myers contract is in the class of Dennis Wideman and Brooks Orpik (lol on that one), not Drew Doughty and Karlsson. Your perception on this one just doesn't meet reality. TRADE PRICE!!!!!! Sweet Jesus......help me...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I've never heard the +/- stat relative to team +/-, but this sounds like a metric I can get behind much more than just traditional +/-. Usually I ignore +/- because the league leaders are all on the same forward line on the best team. This relative +/- stat might be a little more indicitive to actual play contibution. X - is there a site you are going to for finding this info or is it just a manual calc? I'd be interested in looking at this further. I can't figure out how to post it. I PM'd you. Edited January 13, 2015 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) It's alll about where team is. If I'm a team that is close to the cup and had a well-stocked cupboard, I trade a first and good prospect for Myers in a heartbeat. I think the ducks are the only team that fits the profile. But my argument has never been about what Myers is worth to other teams, it's about how he is worth more to Buffalo than what we'd get for him. Bouwmeester is a good but flawed defenceman. I'd rather have him than what the Flames got for him. Why should we make the same mistake with Myers? Edited January 13, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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