Dannepanne Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yea. Cap going up, Heater's $7mm coming off, potential retirement of Koivu and Moulson being the only big UFA they have (maybe Stoner, too). Nino will get a small raise as an RFA. Minnesota could look good with Vanek if their young centers turn it up, but they are really thin in the middle. And then goaltending is an issue. Mikko Koivu is in his early 30s, he wont retire yet. I think you're refering to saku koivu in Anaheim. Yea. Cap going up, Heater's $7mm coming off, potential retirement of Koivu and Moulson being the only big UFA they have (maybe Stoner, too). Nino will get a small raise as an RFA. Minnesota could look good with Vanek if their young centers turn it up, but they are really thin in the middle. And then goaltending is an issue. Mikko Koivu is in his early 30s, he wont retire yet. I think you're refering to saku koivu in Anaheim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I previously said Vanek will get 9 millon per. I still think that. If not Minny some other team will do it to keep him from Minny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Miller happy... and winning Vanek happy .... and winning Moulson happy ... and winning Sabres fans .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Miller happy... and winning Vanek happy .... and winning Moulson happy ... and winning Sabres fans .... Intoxicated with hope. It's better than resigned to mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have never been able to see the hype that people have had for Vanek when he was here and never thought of him as being an 'Elite' player. He always just seemed to be a good, but not great scorer who was given a huge contract. I always saw him as a guy that wouldn't be a leader and never take charge, he wants to be out of the spotlight and just do his thing, following along with the crowd. Now not that theres anything wrong with that, but its the reason why he looks lazy out there most of the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 And frankly, a lot of the best "finishers" are the same way. They are invisible until the goal is scored. Brett Hull, Shanny, etc., would float around finding seams in the defense and wait for the puck to come to them. Ovechkin does it that way today. In fact I noticed during the Montreal game that Vanek is doing the Ovi thing where, when his team is on defense, will hang out very high, maybe even outside of the zone, waiting for the breakaway pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I have never been able to see the hype that people have had for Vanek when he was here and never thought of him as being an 'Elite' player. He always just seemed to be a good, but not great scorer who was given a huge contract. I always saw him as a guy that wouldn't be a leader and never take charge, he wants to be out of the spotlight and just do his thing, following along with the crowd. Now not that theres anything wrong with that, but its the reason why he looks lazy out there most of the time To me Vanek is a good player not elite. He's a pure goal scorer plain and simple and when he was motivated like that year against Boston in the playoffs before Boychuck took him out he was a machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 And frankly, a lot of the best "finishers" are the same way. They are invisible until the goal is scored. Brett Hull, Shanny, etc., would float around finding seams in the defense and wait for the puck to come to them. Ovechkin does it that way today. In fact I noticed during the Montreal game that Vanek is doing the Ovi thing where, when his team is on defense, will hang out very high, maybe even outside of the zone, waiting for the breakaway pass. I never thought of Shanny as a floater. Especially near the end of his career. I cant believe you had to wait till Vanek was a Sabre to make that observation on him though. It doesn't matter in the end though as he can score goals and is going to get PAID again to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Vanek is an elite goal scorer, not an elite player. Has anyone here ever argued he's an elite player, as in his all-around game and bringing things to the table besides scoring? To my memory this hasn't been a contention even from Vanek fans (of which I am one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Vanek is an elite goal scorer, not an elite player. Has anyone here ever argued he's an elite player, as in his all-around game and bringing things to the table besides scoring? To my memory this hasn't been a contention even from Vanek fans (of which I am one). I agree with you. Definetly an elite goal scorer not an elite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Miller happy... and winning Vanek happy .... and winning Moulson happy ... and winning Sabres fans .... you could add 6-7 more. lol I never thought of Shanny as a floater. Especially near the end of his career. I cant believe you had to wait till Vanek was a Sabre to make that observation on him though. It doesn't matter in the end though as he can score goals and is going to get PAID again to do it. I think it would be fair to say he is a lot more than a goal scorer . Edited March 19, 2014 by waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Vanek might be winning but he's still going to walk from Montreal just like he was from Buffalo or Brooklyn. There's nothing wrong with that. I always have had respect for Vanek, because he is what he is; a talented forward. He's not a superstar, he's not an amazing two way guy. He's a solid scoring winger. He'll probably never with a Maurice Richard, or be considered a top 10 player in the league especially as he gets older. But, he's been solid for his career, he played the game the best he could and as far as I can recollect, never was anything but a consummate professional in the process. It wasn't his fault Lowe offered him that obscene 7.14 contract offer, and while Buffalo might have been better off letting him walk then, I don't regret it. As a fan right now, I feel like the foundation is being set from the back end: Myers, Ristolainen, Zadorov, McCabe, Pysyk, and so on. Murray is adding young guys who have size and hands with some grit. As was Regier heading the team in that direction before his termination. It's still too early to tell on Sam Reinhart, or if we get the bounces in the 2015 draft for McDavid or Eichel.....but I feel like it's starting to come up from the depths of despair. I have no empirical data to prove this in any consensus and I am not a stat head, but it looks and feels like a turn-around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) And frankly, a lot of the best "finishers" are the same way. They are invisible until the goal is scored. Brett Hull, Shanny, etc., would float around finding seams in the defense and wait for the puck to come to them. Ovechkin does it that way today. In fact I noticed during the Montreal game that Vanek is doing the Ovi thing where, when his team is on defense, will hang out very high, maybe even outside of the zone, waiting for the breakaway pass. Vanek does not belong in the same post, let alone the same sentence, with Hull, Shanahan or Ovechkin. And btw Shanahan had much more of a tough, 2-way game than Hull or Ovechkin. Vanek is an elite goal scorer, not an elite player. Has anyone here ever argued he's an elite player, as in his all-around game and bringing things to the table besides scoring? To my memory this hasn't been a contention even from Vanek fans (of which I am one). When I posted a poll after Vanek left, there were a handful of posters who rated him as truly elite -- i.e. top 7 or 8 in the NHL. It wasn't 20 posters, but it wasn't 2 or 3 either. EDIT: d'oh! I went back and checked and it was only 2 that rated him truly elite. My mistake (or theirs, really, but mine too). Edited March 19, 2014 by nfreeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Vanek does not belong in the same post, let alone the same sentence, with Hull, Shanahan or Ovechkin. And btw Shanahan had much more of a tough, 2-way game than Hull or Ovechkin. I won't disagree, but my point is that just because he "looks" lazy out there doesn't mean he isn't being effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I think it would be fair to say he is a lot more than a goal scorer . I am giving him credit by saying I think he gets 9 million per year as an fa and I think I am the only one on record saying that. So there's that. And with that said, he is not much more than a pure goal scorer. Streaky, weak on the back check, killing penalties ha! But he will get paid as a commodity. Edit: oh forgot, lazy too lol Edited March 20, 2014 by beerme1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I won't disagree, but my point is that just because he "looks" lazy out there doesn't mean he isn't being effective. My problem with the "laziness" argument is this: how good do people think he could be? He's been one of the top goal scorers in the league since his rookie year, so if you think being lazy is holding him back, do you think he's a HoF caliber talent? If he's a 60-70 point players while being lazy, then is he an 80-90 point player if he went balls out all the time? Only a handful of players reach that level every single year, so if you think Vanek is lazy and his laziness holds him back, you're essentially arguing he's one of five most talented players in the league. Even if you think trying harder would net another 10 points, that's still a plateau not many reach. I'm being quite serious, I'd like to know how good people think he'd be if he weren't "lazy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Vanek is an elite goal scorer, not an elite player. Has anyone here ever argued he's an elite player, as in his all-around game and bringing things to the table besides scoring? To my memory this hasn't been a contention even from Vanek fans (of which I am one). Not trying to turn this into a Lindy-bash, but one of the things I was very annoyed with when it came to Vanek, was how Ruff stated he wanted to turn him into "the best two-way player in the game", right after Vanek came off a 40+ goal season. Guys who can score 40 in this league aren't just falling off trees, meaning when you actually have one, you should probably just let him do his thing, rather than try and turn him into something else. Sure, work on other aspects of his game, but 40 goal scorers are special players. Treat them as such. Edited March 20, 2014 by Kristian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Not trying to turn this into a Lindy-bash, but one of the things I was very annoyed with when it came to Vanek, was how Ruff stated he wanted to turn him into "the best two-way player in the game", right after Vanek came off a 40+ goal season. Guys who can score 40 in this league aren't just falling off trees, meaning when you actually have one, you should probably just let him do his thing, rather than try and turn him into something else. Sure, work on other aspects of his game, but 40 goal scorers are special players. Treat them as such. I agree. So many fans have this fascination about an all around hockey player that scores, hits, defends, is fast, plays goal...... all in one. These players don't exist. Every player has strengths and weaknesses, the key is putting together a team that compliments each person's strengths. Usually the better one player is at a certain aspect of the game, the worse they are in others. All I see when people talk about prolific scorers is 'he doesn't hit'. Well, guess what, he's not going to hit. And guess what, Jon Scott isn't going to score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I agree. So many fans have this fascination about an all around hockey player that scores, hits, defends, is fast, plays goal...... all in one. These players don't exist. Two words: Pavel Datsyuk. Yeah, okay, doesn't play goal, but in his prime he was a truly great all-around player. Every player has strengths and weaknesses, the key is putting together a team that compliments each person's strengths. Usually the better one player is at a certain aspect of the game, the worse they are in others. All I see when people talk about prolific scorers is 'he doesn't hit'. Well, guess what, he's not going to hit. And guess what, Jon Scott isn't going to score. On the other hand... people generally regard scoring as the pinnacle of NHL skill. Fine, but you don't ask your highly skilled pitcher in baseball to do anything else (especially in the American League where the designated hitter handles the pitcher's batting duties). Same thing here: Why would you ask a top scorer to hit, especially if it's not naturally part of his game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsabre Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Vanek is totally an elite player. He has an incredible shoot, excellent skater and very durable. He was a beast with ~ average players on his line. Just think if he played with french connection talent. We can only hope that one of our future picks has his talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Two words: Pavel Datsyuk. Yeah, okay, doesn't play goal, but in his prime he was a truly great all-around player. OK, OK, I should have said they are rare. People tend to think they are easy to come by. They are not. You just can't focus on all aspects of your game and expect to excel at any of them. On the other hand... people generally regard scoring as the pinnacle of NHL skill. Fine, but you don't ask your highly skilled pitcher in baseball to do anything else (especially in the American League where the designated hitter handles the pitcher's batting duties). Same thing here: Why would you ask a top scorer to hit, especially if it's not naturally part of his game? Yup, that's the point I was getting at. I think later in Lindy's tenure with BFLO, and Rolston after that, they tried too hard to turn their players into something they weren't. It's one thing to work on different aspects of a player's game, it's another to force them to become a multi-dimensional player. I think this is where Nolan has been getting the most out of guys like Myers, Stafford an Ennis. He's letting them play their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 The beginning of the end of Garth Snow's tenure as Isles' GM: @TSNBobMcKenzie NYI owner Charles Wang in talks to sell majority stake in NHL franchise. Nothing done yet, no telling if it gets done, but talks underway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) The beginning of the end of Garth Snow's tenure as Isles' GM: @TSNBobMcKenzie NYI owner Charles Wang in talks to sell majority stake in NHL franchise. Nothing done yet, no telling if it gets done, but talks underway. Not surprised by this. Atleast we got the trade in before that sucker gets banned :-) Edited March 28, 2014 by HopefulFuture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Vanek is totally an elite player. He has an incredible shoot, excellent skater and very durable. He was a beast with ~ average players on his line. Just think if he played with french connection talent. We can only hope that one of our future picks has his talent. You must be his agent... Seriously, talented goal scorer, elite he isn't. When motivated he can be elite. But his inconsistencies relegate him to talented, but not elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Vanek is totally an elite player. He has an incredible shoot, excellent skater and very durable. He was a beast with ~ average players on his line. Just think if he played with french connection talent. We can only hope that one of our future picks has his talent. Elite talent makes the players around them better regardless. Vanek is very good but he is not Elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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