Tallinder traded to Buffalo

[apuszczalowski]

McNabb has only played 25 games. Is that really enough to come to concrete conclusion as to how good he really is? Who said Pysyk went ahead of him on the charts just because he got called up first? Maybe they wanted to get him some playing time.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

If it were that easy, everybody would do it. It's only been two years.

took less games to determine Enroth is a starter..........

[K-9]

You hope

 

As for Tallinder, he was brought in as a desperation move to try and get Myers back on track. It was a last ditch effort, Hank was Myers defence partner when he was at his best, so they are hoping re-uniting them will revive both their careers. Its as simple as that. Instead of dumping Myers and considering him a bust, they decide to give it one last shot by bringing in his old partner.

 

as for the Chara comparisons, enough with these, the only thing in common they have is their height. Just because Chara took a while to develop (don't believe he was a rookie of the year who went into a nose dive after) doesn't mean that Myers will follow the same path, for every player that followed the Chara route, there are probably 10 that were busts and never developed over time

 

I like how you caution us not to compare Myers and Chara and then go on to do exactly that.

 

You're right, Chara wasn't a rookie of the year. The fact is that at similar career stages, Myers is the better prospect. Still. And there is nothing wrong with remembering that, regardless of how much Myers has schitt the bed since. Personally, the kid needs to relax, forget about his contract, and start enjoying the game more. He's finding it hard to live up to the expectations of his promising rookie year.

 

Maybe the Sabres will dump Myers' ass tomorrow, anyway. Who knows? But you can't convince me that Tallinder's influence won't benefit every other young blueliner on the squad, regardless.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[apuszczalowski]

I don't see a change of heart. Seems to me there is still a large portion of people blaming Darcy for something, they can't pass this one up. To me, it's a riskless trade. Is anybody going to miss Boychuk? I don't think so. I don't see what the issue is.

 

The problem doesn't lie with bringing Hank back to help Myers, it's the fact that Myers is heading into his 5th year and he still needs help.

 

There need to be a couple vet D-Men on a roster. I don't care how much of a rebuild you're going through. Not everybody can be under 24.

This is the issue, its not people trying to blame DR for every move that he makes, its that fact the the majority here seem to believe that they have to put all of their best young players out their on the ice this season to "see what they have" and let them develop in the NHL and there can be no roadblocks (veterans) in the way to stop them and keep them from being on the roster

[JJFIVEOH]

took less games to determine Enroth is a starter..........

 

 

Goaltender, D-man, apples, oranges.

 

Most on here haven't determined if Enroth is a starter, and he's played twice as many games as McNabb. Yet I think I'm the first one to mention this about McNabb.

 

This is the issue, its not people trying to blame DR for every move that he makes, its that fact the the majority here seem to believe that they have to put all of their best young players out their on the ice this season to "see what they have" and let them develop in the NHL and there can be no roadblocks (veterans) in the way to stop them and keep them from being on the roster

 

I don't think you can have 9 D-men with one over the age of 25 (or very little NHL experience). I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. ;)

[apuszczalowski]

I like how you caution us not to compare Myers and Chara and then go on to do exactly that.

 

You're right, Chara wasn't a rookie of the year. The fact is that at similar career stages, Myers is the better prospect. Still. And there is nothing wrong with remembering that, regardless of how much Myers has schitt the bed since. Personally, the kid needs to relax, forget about his contract, and start enjoying the game more. He's finding it hard to live up to the expectations of his promising rookie year.

 

Maybe the Sabres will dump Myers' ass tomorrow, anyway. Who knows? But you can't convince me that Tallinder's influence won't benefit every other young blueliner on the squad, regardless.

 

GO SABRES!!!

Maybe he will, maybe he won't, how do you know for sure? Whats the difference between him and any other veteran defence thats out there thats going to make him so valuable to all the other defencemen on the roster? He was a healthy scratch many times for the devils recently and wasn't good enough for them to want to keep around to help with their defence

[Sabre Dance]

When did Chara become a big boy?

 

I don't think Tallinder was brought in to do anything with Myers, specifically. He's a steadying influence for what is suddenly a very young, very inexperienced blue line. Every young D man on the team may benefit. Hard for me to understand why anyone would object to having him.

 

DR isn't done reshaping the team. Both Miller and Vanek will be moved before camp starts.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

No GM is (or should ever be) done reshaping his team. Stan Bowman's team just won the Cup and he already has moved players (yes, for specific reasons, but still...) If DR is going to sit back in his chair at some point and say, "There...I'm done!", we're already doomed. Players abilities and performances ebb and flow and it is a good GM who can monitor the situation and make appropriate changes at appropriate times. Regier is missing that gene, IMHO.

A GREAT GM should be ahead of the curve and get the right mix of players all pulling in the same direction at the same time. These are the teams that always perform well and make the playoffs year after year. You all know the teams; I don't have to list them.

You know, I really, realy want to look at the Sabres' situation in a positive light and have some optimism for next season and beyond. What I am seeing so far does not fill me with confidence. Maybe once the season starts and we get an idea of where this team of young'uns is compared to the rest of the league I'll feel better. But right now..... :wallbash:

[apuszczalowski]

Goaltender, D-man, apples, oranges.

 

Most on here haven't determined if Enroth is a starter, and he's played twice as many games as McNabb. Yet I think I'm the first one to mention this about McNabb.

 

 

 

I don't think you can have 9 D-men with one over the age of 25 (or very little NHL experience). I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. ;)

Its only Apples to oranges because it doesn't help your case. And yes, most here had already determined before last offseason that he was good enough that Miller can be moved and he can take over the starting job.

I'm not disagreeing on your assessment of McNabb though........

[K-9]

Maybe he will, maybe he won't, how do you know for sure? Whats the difference between him and any other veteran defence thats out there thats going to make him so valuable to all the other defencemen on the roster? He was a healthy scratch many times for the devils recently and wasn't good enough for them to want to keep around to help with their defence

 

You seem to be confusing Tallinder's eroding talent with his experience as an NHL Dman.

 

We don't know anything "for sure." Maybe Tallinder gets cut tomorrow. But it's a perfectly rational presumption that his experience can be of benefit to such a young D corps in the meantime.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[darksabre]

 

 

On February 22, 2011, if someone had told you the Sabres would be flirting with the cap floor in two years, would you have believed it? Terry might not have issued a "break even" edict, but his bean-counters are acting as if he did. Ted even said those magic small market words "financial viability" and said he can't assume Terry's always going to be around spending hand over fist. They're worried about the bottom line now and for the next owner. Golisano spent a lot, too, was also the toast of the town for a while, and had his hand in mucking things up. The difference between the two owners is not as stark as some would say.

 

Flirting with the cap floor is a stretch isn't it? They're 11 mil from the ceiling which can disappear real quick with RFA and UFA signings over the next two seasons. Also I'm not sure the Sabres cap space is part of the conversation we're having here.

 

Also I have no idea what you are referring to with your bean counters comment.

 

Golisano and Pegula are running very different ships. I don't know how you can't see this.

[JJFIVEOH]

With this trade:

 

-The Sabres lost a players that will never make the NHL

-Didn't create any cap issues

-Still leaves 3 contract spots open

 

I don't see any issues, this was a completely riskless trade. If it doesn't work out, nothing is lost.

 

If anything having a surplus of D-Men can only be beneficial when it comes time to make trades. D-Men are hot commodities, especially at the trade deadline.

 

Its only Apples to oranges because it doesn't help your case. And yes, most here had already determined before last offseason that he was good enough that Miller can be moved and he can take over the starting job.

I'm not disagreeing on your assessment of McNabb though........

 

No, it's apples vs. oranges because you're comparing him to a goaltender (who has played twice as many games). Compare him to another D-man or forward that has played 25 NHL games, and then we'll talk. ;)

[apuszczalowski]

With this trade:

 

-The Sabres lost a players that will never make the NHL

-Didn't create any cap issues

-Still leaves 3 contract spots open

 

I don't see any issues, this was a completely riskless trade. If it doesn't work out, nothing is lost.

 

If anything having a surplus of D-Men can only be beneficial when it comes time to make trades. D-Men are hot commodities, especially at the trade deadline.

 

 

 

No, it's apples vs. oranges because you're comparing him to a goaltender (who has played twice as many games). Compare him to another D-man or forward that has played 25 NHL games, and then we'll talk. ;)

Actually, there were many here after Enroths first 20 or so games that thought he was a starter and Miller could be moved, thats less then McNabb.

As for the comparison between a goaltender and defencemen, your trying to say its much easier to determine if a goalie is capable then a defencemen?

[JJFIVEOH]

Actually, there were many here after Enroths first 20 or so games that thought he was a starter and Miller could be moved, thats less then McNabb.

As for the comparison between a goaltender and defencemen, your trying to say its much easier to determine if a goalie is capable then a defencemen?

 

20 games "or so" < 25 games

 

Really? You're going to base your argument on Enroth playing less games with an "or so"

 

Yes, I am saying that. There are many, many more aspects to a defensemens game than a goaltenders. The only question about Enroth is if he can handle a workload. You're not going to compare Dustin Hopkins to Duke Williams 5 games into the NFL season, are you?

[apuszczalowski]

20 games "or so" < 25 games

 

Really? You're going to base your argument on Enroth playing less games with an "or so"

 

Yes, I am saying that. There are many, many more aspects to a defensemens game than a goaltenders. The only question about Enroth is if he can handle a workload. You're not going to compare Dustin Hopkins to Duke Williams 5 games into the NFL season, are you?

How many times has the league seen some goaltender come up and shock the league with his play for a short period of time and then disapear? How many times do you see goaltenders struggle for years before they finally break out as a starter? Tim Thomas was in his 30s before he was looked at as being good. Jim Carrey won a vezina, how long did his career last? The Flyers gave up on Bobrovsky as a starter and he went on to win a vezina too. Its not so easy to determineif a gaoltender (or any player) has what it takes to be a starter in the league.

I said 20 or so because it was around that number (It may have been less) after he first came up and filled in for Miller that fans fell in love with him. I'm not wasting my time looking up the exact amount of games.My point is that it was around that same number that many here used to determine that Enroth was good enough to replace Miller, but its not good enough to determine that McNabb is good?

 

BTW, don't you have to go light the candles in the Dale Tallon/Florida Panthers shrine?

[JJFIVEOH]

You betcha.

[TrueBlueGED]

20 games "or so" < 25 games

 

Really? You're going to base your argument on Enroth playing less games with an "or so"

 

Yes, I am saying that. There are many, many more aspects to a defensemens game than a goaltenders. The only question about Enroth is if he can handle a workload. You're not going to compare Dustin Hopkins to Duke Williams 5 games into the NFL season, are you?

 

With respect, there's many more questions about Enroth beyond how he handles a full workload.

[JJFIVEOH]

With respect, there's many more questions about Enroth beyond how he handles a full workload.

 

Still doesn't negate the fact that there are more aspects to a defensemens game. Still doesn't negate the fact that McNabb hasn't played enough games for people to say he's worked his way down the depth chart and isn't NHL caliber.

[qwksndmonster]

Play Tallinder with Ehrhoff all year and we just turned Riley Boychuck into a 2nd round pick.

[LTS]

No GM is (or should ever be) done reshaping his team. Stan Bowman's team just won the Cup and he already has moved players (yes, for specific reasons, but still...) If DR is going to sit back in his chair at some point and say, "There...I'm done!", we're already doomed. Players abilities and performances ebb and flow and it is a good GM who can monitor the situation and make appropriate changes at appropriate times. Regier is missing that gene, IMHO.

A GREAT GM should be ahead of the curve and get the right mix of players all pulling in the same direction at the same time. These are the teams that always perform well and make the playoffs year after year. You all know the teams; I don't have to list them.

You know, I really, realy want to look at the Sabres' situation in a positive light and have some optimism for next season and beyond. What I am seeing so far does not fill me with confidence. Maybe once the season starts and we get an idea of where this team of young'uns is compared to the rest of the league I'll feel better. But right now..... :wallbash:

 

This is like religion at this point. People either have faith or don't. What I see right now is a team that is loaded with young defense. A team that knows that next year isn't THE year so why waste resources on pieces that make no sense. In one year there will be another landscape change because the cap will go up and there will still be buyouts to be had. So, sit low, develop a few players. Perhaps the D show up and can play and then you have trade pieces.

 

Miller and Vanek are question marks right now. I think anyone can reasonably say that Vanek has more value than Miller and is more readily traded. At the same time, teams aren't looking for a 1 year goal scorer until they know they aren't getting someone else (via trade or FA) that they can lock up for longer. Vanek comes with a guarantee of 1 season. Miller is the same, but less teams are looking for goaltenders. It could be that he walks at the end of the year. If there's no market.. there's no market.

 

So, what if the plan is purely. Get through this season with experience for the younger players. Move into the next season with cap space and some trade assets. Go pick up some key free agents with that cap space and compete the following year.

 

Philly retooled their roster in 1 season. Montreal has done something similar as well. The question is whether you have faith in Darcy to do the job. I know a lot of people don't based upon past actions. We can debate that all day long but he doesn't appear to be going anywhere for the time being. This suggests to me that the is executing the plan that ownership believes in to a level they find acceptable.

[TrueBlueGED]

Still doesn't negate the fact that there are more aspects to a defensemens game. Still doesn't negate the fact that McNabb hasn't played enough games for people to say he's worked his way down the depth chart and isn't NHL caliber.

 

Not debating you on defensemen at all. I just think you're severely underestimating how much goes into developing a goaltender's game.

[North Buffalo]

This is the issue, its not people trying to blame DR for every move that he makes, its that fact the the majority here seem to believe that they have to put all of their best young players out their on the ice this season to "see what they have" and let them develop in the NHL and there can be no roadblocks (veterans) in the way to stop them and keep them from being on the roster

Really, there is a group of us that don't mind the D moves, but still lament the fact that nothing truly observable except young wish sandwich guys have been brought in to deal with the center position.

 

I like the D moves personally, even Tallinder, who I was sad to see go, I think will help the young guys. Still there is only 1 two way center on the team in OTT but non number 1 and the two number 2 centers can't do both, play D and offense at the same time... and oh yeh there is an unproven rookie with nice hands who looks lost a lot of the time. Until I see some top end consistent effort out the center position, I am not happy.

 

That being said the D additions I think will work.

[qwksndmonster]

@LTS The one year thing shouldn't scare off teams. Vanek can agree to a deal once he knows about the trade. Or there could be a conditional pick(s) in the trade.

[PASabreFan]

Are you creating some sort of stereotyped monolithic billionaire? Are you saying they have something more in common than their white-maleness? Or are you just recognizing that people who buy toys tend to play with them?

 

Here's the difference. I can accept most owners coming in and wanting to play with their toy. Terry should be different. He said he was a big fan and he said the Sabres' reason for existence is to win a Cup. Everything else takes a back seat. Or should. His fantasy of being an owner, his ego, everything. Terry Pegula has nothing — zero, zippo, zilch — to add to the process of becoming a Cup champion, except his money. For him to insinuate himself into the team the way he did doesn't mesh with his stated goal. He's an egomaniac, an idiot or a liar. I buy the team, you buy the team, the most logical thing would be to hire the best hockey people in the world, then go away and be a fan. Evaluate from time to time and change the braintrust as necessary. Did Rigas and Golisano play with their toy, by the way? I have to give them credit. I think they were pretty honest about why they bought the team (business considerations for Rigas and philanthropic/political/investment reasons for Golisano. I don't think Pegula's been honest yet about why he bought the Sabres.

[...]

I don't think Pegula's been honest yet about why he bought the Sabres.

 

He probably has a larger plan...well, wait, he DOES have a larger plan and we're seeing it (or part of it) unfold right there in downtown Buffalo. The extent of the plan, the scope, the objectives, I can't possibly guess; although if he hadn't moved away from the natural gas industry, a lot more chips would fall into place.

 

He also doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who can keep too many detailed and sophisticated threads together (FWIW, which, coming from one dude on the sidelines, I guess is not much) - I think if he could he'd manage his public appearances a lot better than he does. As it is, he's a disaster every time he speaks, even when, at the time, he seems to be saying all of the right things.

 

Anyway, if he's trying to build the foundation for another East Resources type of company, it seems like a rather round-a-bout way of getting there.

 

 

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'm not sure how many multi-millionaire d-men in the National Hockey League needs their team to trade and spend 3.5 mil/year for a personal mentor. Especially a 23 year old. Maybe Tyler and Hank will warm our hearts by holding hands and singing Kumba Ya during games.

 

Looks like several of our weak links are getting partners they already know to fortify their game. Tallinder-Myers the first time was the first clue. Then Sulzer-Ehrhoff, then Ott-Weber. Then Regier started talking about getting Finns for Armia. Maybe they're trying to build chemistry, two by two, with players who've already known each other from previous associations. Maybe they can get Stafford a partner or Vanek a new partner. Otherwise, this team is a total hodge-podge with some of the weaker minded players feeling estranged because they don't really know anyone as teammates. Who knows....but it sounds romantic.

Maybe we can rename the team Darcy's Ark? All the fans drown though.

[Jsixspd]

Tallinder? So they think this will be some sort of magic cure for Tyler Myers? That kid has a low hockey IQ and doesn't make good decisions on ice - I don't think having a different partner can fix it - maybe just take the spot-light off his glaring deficiencies?