WildCard Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 It's difficult to draw the line, but if a player doesn't bring anything but goal scoring, the ages of 30+ are difficult to justify that type of cap hit. I'm betting that he will be a buyout candidate before that deal has run its course, sort of like Briere. And this isn't easy....the way deals and UFA are structured kind of make this a necessity. Toronto fans would be furious if Phil walked for no compensation and put up video game numbers for 3-5 years. So they tack on an additional 2-3 years to get him to sign on the dotted line. I'm not so sure about that; there's always going to be players who fulfill only this quality. Ovechkin, the league leader in goals, has a 3 mil / year higher cap hit than Kessel and has an astounding +/- of -14. That's not the first time he's done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 I just listened to what must have been an eight- or nine-second goal horn in Edmonton. Gaudy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Phil Kessel might be a top 10 NHL scorer. No way in hell is he a top 10 NHL player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Phil Kessel might be a top 10 NHL scorer. No way in hell is he a top 10 NHL player. fair enough, I guess when I put "forward" I meant it more as an offensive accolade than anything. He's certainly not a Toews/Callahan type 2-way forward though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Phil Kessel might be a top 10 NHL scorer. No way in hell is he a top 10 NHL player. He's not that far down the list. fair enough, I guess when I put "forward" I meant it more as an offensive accolade than anything. He's certainly not a Toews/Callahan type 2-way forward though I would put Kessel ahead of Callahan on any top NHL player list. Callahan is the better defensive player, he is nowhere near the offensive talent that Kessel is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Vanek vs. Pommer tonight on center ice for anyone bored after the Sabres and Bills games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Kopitar, Thornton, Marleau, Perry, Getzlaf, Duchene, Backes, Parise, Toews, Kane, Benn, Seguin, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Stamkos, St. Louis, Malkin, Crosby, Giroux, Tavares, Staal, Ovechkin... I'd take any of them over Kessel at the moment, and that's just the forwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Kopitar, Thornton, Marleau, Perry, Getzlaf, Duchene, Backes, Parise, Toews, Kane, Benn, Seguin, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Stamkos, St. Louis, Malkin, Crosby, Giroux, Tavares, Staal, Ovechkin... I'd take any of them over Kessel at the moment, and that's just the forwards. Kessel is easily one of the 20 best players in the league. He is well on his way to his 5th straight 30+ goal season (not counting the shorten season where is had 20 goals in 48 games.). Kessel is a franchise forward. At only 26 years old, at the pace he is on he will end up with some serious numbers. The guy is an impact player. Edited December 29, 2013 by deluca67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Kessel is easily one of the 20 best players in the league. He is well on his way to his 5th straight 30+ goal season (not counting the shorten season where is had 20 goals in 48 games.). Kessel is a franchise forward. At only 26 years old, at the pace he is on he will end up with some serious numbers. The guy is an impact player. They look like Vanek's early numbers, only with a worse +/-. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) They look like Vanek's early numbers, only with a worse +/-. That they do. But I'll be pulling for him once he's wearing some red to go with that white and blue. As soon as Sochi is over, though, I'll go back to mocking the Bruins' 2011 MVP. Edited December 29, 2013 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 They look like Vanek's early numbers, only with a worse +/-. I would expect Vanek's numbers might even look better if he wasn't stuck in Buffalo the last few years. Overall, I would list Kessel above Vanek because of his speed and ability to create offense with that speed. Vanek is better down low and around the net where he can use his hands and his sick vision. It's close, Kessel is younger and his +/- has been improving since he posted that -20 in 2010-11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 I would expect Vanek's numbers might even look better if he wasn't stuck in Buffalo the last few years. Overall, I would list Kessel above Vanek because of his speed and ability to create offense with that speed. Vanek is better down low and around the net where he can use his hands and his sick vision. It's close, Kessel is younger and his +/- has been improving since he posted that -20 in 2010-11. And Kessel's might look better if he weren't stuck in Toronto, which isn't exactly a model of success. It's not like Phil has put the Leaves on his back and carried them anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumbPuck Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Kessel is easily one of the 20 best players in the league. He is well on his way to his 5th straight 30+ goal season (not counting the shorten season where is had 20 goals in 48 games.). Kessel is a franchise forward. At only 26 years old, at the pace he is on he will end up with some serious numbers. The guy is an impact player. And he's a great lumberjack to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Kessel is an elite goal scoring winger. But that's all he is. Doesn't hit, block shots, win face-offs, play defence or inspire his teammates to be better. He's been a minus player seven out of the eight seasons in his career. And for all his skill, he's passed 65 points just once. His talent alone means he's an excellent hockey player, and he's in his prime. But you build your franchise around him and you get the Leafs. Edited December 29, 2013 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Kessels bread and butter is his shot. Much like Brett Hull. He's built a career off of it and he's damn good at it. He's far from a well rounded player though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 And Kessel's might look better if he weren't stuck in Toronto, which isn't exactly a model of success. It's not like Phil has put the Leaves on his back and carried them anywhere. Kessel is an elite goal scoring winger. But that's all he is. Doesn't hit, block shots, win face-offs, play defence or inspire his teammates to be better. He's been a minus player seven out of the eight seasons in his career. And for all his skill, he's passed 65 points just once. His talent alone means he's an excellent hockey player, and he's in his prime. But you build your franchise around him and you get the Leafs. We're talking about a 26 year old who is getting better. I don't know about "inspiring his teammates to be better." I'm not sure if that is even a real thing. He certainly is able to create space and opportunities for his teammates. He passed 65 points his last full season, and is on pace, baring injuries. to finish with 70+ again this season. I would love a 26 year old like Kessel on the Sabres to build around. Right now the Sabres have nothing close to a Kessel talent wise. Kessels bread and butter is his shot. Much like Brett Hull. He's built a career off of it and he's damn good at it. He's far from a well rounded player though. Very true! No one is saying he is the best player in hockey. Once you get past the top 5-10 uber-elite players, Kessel starts to fit into the conversation. I would also add speed to go along with his shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 I would love a 26 year old like Kessel on the Sabres to build around. Right now the Sabres have nothing close to a Kessel talent wise. On this we certainly can agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 We're talking about a 26 year old who is getting better. I don't know about "inspiring his teammates to be better." I'm not sure if that is even a real thing. He certainly is able to create space and opportunities for his teammates. He passed 65 points his last full season, and is on pace, baring injuries. to finish with 70+ again this season. I would love a 26 year old like Kessel on the Sabres to build around. Right now the Sabres have nothing close to a Kessel talent wise. Very true! No one is saying he is the best player in hockey. Once you get past the top 5-10 uber-elite players, Kessel starts to fit into the conversation. I would also add speed to go along with his shot. Yes he has speed. In any case I'd love to have him on the Sabres. Our powerplay would certainly improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Kessel and Vanek are pretty much the exact same player. I like both, but you aren't winning anything with either of them unless you have a real center to go with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 We're talking about a 26 year old who is getting better. I don't know about "inspiring his teammates to be better." I'm not sure if that is even a real thing. He certainly is able to create space and opportunities for his teammates. He passed 65 points his last full season, and is on pace, baring injuries. to finish with 70+ again this season. I would love a 26 year old like Kessel on the Sabres to build around. Right now the Sabres have nothing close to a Kessel talent wise. But then how is he better than Vanek was at that age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 Kessel and Vanek are pretty much the exact same player. I like both, but you aren't winning anything with either of them unless you have a real center to go with them. Pretty much. Kessel is great, but I don't know how any Sabres fan could possibly want to build around wingers again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLaLaFontaine Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 We're talking about a 26 year old who is getting better. I don't know about "inspiring his teammates to be better." I'm not sure if that is even a real thing. He certainly is able to create space and opportunities for his teammates. He passed 65 points his last full season, and is on pace, baring injuries. to finish with 70+ again this season. I would love a 26 year old like Kessel on the Sabres to build around. Right now the Sabres have nothing close to a Kessel talent wise. Very true! No one is saying he is the best player in hockey. Once you get past the top 5-10 uber-elite players, Kessel starts to fit into the conversation. I would also add speed to go along with his shot. A player like Kessel would be a fine core piece. Pretty much. Kessel is great, but I don't know how any Sabres fan could possibly want to build around wingers again. I would love to have those good wingers again. We would not be so far away from a good playoff team. Not the players were the main issue but the gm and coach. This we learned ( ok we knew that for long) the hard tour. Pommers and Vanek with a coach Nolan would have worked. Ok this is bygones now. I believe you have to build around the stars you have. If these are wingers you build around them. Centers would be better but the Malkin and Crosbys are not growing on trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 29, 2013 Report Share Posted December 29, 2013 I would love to have those good wingers again. We would not be so far away from a good playoff team. Not the players were the main issue but the gm and coach. This we learned ( ok we knew that for long) the hard tour. Pommers and Vanek with a coach Nolan would have worked. Ok this is bygones now. I believe you have to build around the stars you have. If these are wingers you build around them. Centers would be better but the Malkin and Crosbys are not growing on trees. If the players weren't the problem, how was the GM? After all, he acquired all of them. Unless you're going to argue Regier's only mistake was choosing Rolston to succeed Ruff, you don't have much to stand on here. Vanek and Pominville would make this team better, but so what? They'd still be at best a fringe playoff team without any realistic chance of winning the Cup. If that's your definition of something that would "work" then okay, but otherwise, having your best two players as wingers would still be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 Pretty much. Kessel is great, but I don't know how any Sabres fan could possibly want to build around wingers again. I haven't read many of the posts, but I think people throw "build around player x" loosely and really mean that they would like to have them as a piece of the core. There are VERY few players in the league that you can "build around." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 I don't consider Phil a winner. when the game is on the line and the next shift is can decide who wins or loses I don't want Phil on the ice for my team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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