stenbaro Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Point taken, but most teams aren't going to give up one to get three. How many 3 for 1 trades have you seen in recent years? He's made some bad trades. But I'm not going to hold the Golisano days against him. So far he got the better of the Hodgson trade. He got the better of the Ott trade, He got a first for Gaustad and I think he made out in the P-Ville trade. I think his moves since Pegula came in have been pretty decent. He didn't address the center situation right away, but now we've go three young centers looking towards the future and possibly THREE first rounders this year. Aside from the Leino contract (I need to see this year to give my final judgement on Myers, he did piss me off last year), I think he's done pretty well the last two years. He could take another year or two before he hits his stride... I wouldnt even think of giving up on him yet..He is a big kid just getting use to his size... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 As to Leino, I don't think anyone mentioned it, that he didn't have surgery on the hip. "He had a procedure aboot as close to surgery as you can get" or somethng like that DR said. DR's seen him most every day. Looks like many Sabres are working out at the rink/facilities over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 He wasnt a huge mistake but he was definitely not a smart transaction being moved out for pretty much nothing..Darcy has made a lot worse than that one good to see you, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 good to see you, btw. Thanxs.....Ive been lurking everyday I just didnt have anything good or positive to contribute.... :ph34r: So I blew it tonight....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 He could take another year or two before he hits his stride... I wouldnt even think of giving up on him yet..He is a big kid just getting use to his size... Him being out of shape in January was unacceptable. But, I think Lindy put way too much pressure on him and tried to turn him into a player that he's not. One thing I have noticed about Rolston is he lets these guys play their role and do what they do best, instead of forcing them to do something else. You're right, some time under Rolston should help him improve greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Jeremy's head is still exploding on twitter, and he still is misunderstanding Devine's quote. This is priceless. He misunderstands quite a few things. His constant overuse of the word "like" and talking over people make him seem childish. Trade everything for the #1 pick? how does that make sense? (slightly less ridiculous than his man-crush on matt barkley who he wanted to take in 1st round but was a 4th rounder) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 He misunderstands quite a few things. His constant overuse of the word "like" and talking over people make him seem childish. Trade everything for the #1 pick? how does that make sense? (slightly less ridiculous than his man-crush on matt barkley who he wanted to take in 1st round but was a 4th rounder) I happen to agree with White. Your not trading everything, your trading Depth, and in doing so your almost ensuring a franchise player this year and perhaps 1 or 2 more over the next 2 seasons to come. Many fail to understand this basic truth...... "The Buffalo Sabres very existence in mediocrity is specifically due to their failures in addressing the franchise player situation on the roster" Whether any of you like to hear that or believe it, that's up to you. But in the end, it is the truth. Vanek needed some true top end talent to jam with, but it never showed up because of Regier, not in spite of him. Regier specifically told the fan base to prepare for more suffering. I pray to the hockey gods he means what he says, because I'd trade anything on this roster or in the pipeline right now to move up and gain a franchise player to build around in the forward depths. A 3 to 5 year rebuild/retooling (call it what you will) to get the team to potential Stanley Cup contention is a hell of a sight better then continuing to fill the depth ranks, roll the dice and continue on endless in the realm of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 I happen to agree with White. Your not trading everything, your trading Depth, and in doing so your almost ensuring a franchise player this year and perhaps 1 or 2 more over the next 2 seasons to come. Many fail to understand this basic truth...... "The Buffalo Sabres very existence in mediocrity is specifically due to their failures in addressing the franchise player situation on the roster" Whether any of you like to hear that or believe it, that's up to you. But in the end, it is the truth. Vanek needed some true top end talent to jam with, but it never showed up because of Regier, not in spite of him. Regier specifically told the fan base to prepare for more suffering. I pray to the hockey gods he means what he says, because I'd trade anything on this roster or in the pipeline right now to move up and gain a franchise player to build around in the forward depths. A 3 to 5 year rebuild/retooling (call it what you will) to get the team to potential Stanley Cup contention is a hell of a sight better then continuing to fill the depth ranks, roll the dice and continue on endless in the realm of mediocrity. I couldn't disagree more. The #1 failure without a doubt, by a huge margin, is this team's continued lack of character. The backing down when challenged and the crumbling under the slightest adversity need to be addressed before thoughts of franchise players and selling the farm in the hopes of finding a savior. We as fans have to stop trying to re-draft Sydney Crosby. Until words like character, toughness, never say die, never quit, leave it all out on the ice and others become more than words and become this teams actual core beliefs and is reflected on the ice, nothing is going to change no matter who you draft. Draft picks are not "depth". The Sabres organizationally are not deep or have "depth" when it comes to players under contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 He misunderstands quite a few things. His constant overuse of the word "like" and talking over people make him seem childish. Trade everything for the #1 pick? how does that make sense? (slightly less ridiculous than his man-crush on matt barkley who he wanted to take in 1st round but was a 4th rounder) What is he going to be like in 2015, when Connor McDavid is available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 I couldn't disagree more. The #1 failure without a doubt, by a huge margin, is this team's continued lack of character. The backing down when challenged and the crumbling under the slightest adversity need to be addressed before thoughts of franchise players and selling the farm in the hopes of finding a savior. We as fans have to stop trying to re-draft Sydney Crosby. Until words like character, toughness, never say die, never quit, leave it all out on the ice and others become more than words and become this teams actual core beliefs and is reflected on the ice, nothing is going to change no matter who you draft. Draft picks are not "depth". The Sabres organizationally are not deep or have "depth" when it comes to players under contract. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 I couldn't disagree more. The #1 failure without a doubt, by a huge margin, is this team's continued lack of character. The backing down when challenged and the crumbling under the slightest adversity need to be addressed before thoughts of franchise players and selling the farm in the hopes of finding a savior. We as fans have to stop trying to re-draft Sydney Crosby. Until words like character, toughness, never say die, never quit, leave it all out on the ice and others become more than words and become this teams actual core beliefs and is reflected on the ice, nothing is going to change no matter who you draft. Draft picks are not "depth". The Sabres organizationally are not deep or have "depth" when it comes to players under contract. I'll take what you say under consideration, but in the end, I'll go with Devine's statement on giving up a great deal of "Depth" (something you state the sabres are not deep in) but Devine says they'd have to give up, which implies they do, in fact, have it. I do not however, disagree with your opinion on the toughness issue, but after 5 seasons of watching the former roster go, I'd like to point out that since the depature of D/B there were 0 clutch players on the team. Yes, that has to do with that never say die attitude, it also is a tribute to the talent those 2 players were overall with the chemistry of the team, I don't see that happening this time around, I could be wrong, but that's why I state it's a roll of the dice. Top end talent taken at the top of the draft, not so much overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Wait, the Sabres aren't going to get a big deal done? The Buffalo Sabres???? Oh my gosh, this is shocking.... [Oh, and spoiler alert: Miller and Vanek won't be traded at the draft either. That would be far too decisive for the narcoleptics who run this team.] More of the same old same old Regier.... Duh, other teams are holding on to their draft picks with this draft. Why didn't Regier and trade Miller and Vanek at the deadline then the Sabres would have been drafting in the top 4. Oh well, back to waiting till the end of next year and hope the Sabres finish dead last so they can get a franchise guy. Darcy just can't win for losing and his hockey sense is just off Batman... I think this thread should be combined with any one of the Darcy Sucks threads... No buyout plans for Leino. or Stafford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 I couldn't disagree more. The #1 failure without a doubt, by a huge margin, is this team's continued lack of character. The backing down when challenged and the crumbling under the slightest adversity need to be addressed before thoughts of franchise players and selling the farm in the hopes of finding a savior. We as fans have to stop trying to re-draft Sydney Crosby. Until words like character, toughness, never say die, never quit, leave it all out on the ice and others become more than words and become this teams actual core beliefs and is reflected on the ice, nothing is going to change no matter who you draft. Draft picks are not "depth". The Sabres organizationally are not deep or have "depth" when it comes to players under contract. This is sabres fan syndrome, add enough toughness and grit and all your problems are solved. It's totally ass backwards, this team lacks the horses to run with the big dogs. The reason fans want a top end crosby player is because that's what all successful teams have, top end talent. It's far easier to acquire players with "character" than it is to find players with actual talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 This is sabres fan syndrome, add enough toughness and grit and all your problems are solved. It's totally ass backwards, this team lacks the horses to run with the big dogs. The reason fans want a top end crosby player is because that's what all successful teams have, top end talent. It's far easier to acquire players with "character" than it is to find players with actual talent. The history of this franchise proves this statement to be completely false. You don't build on a foundation of window treatments and fancy cabinet fixtures. This team needs a solid foundation built on the principles I listed above. Anything else is simply repeating the same mistakes and failures we have all witnessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 The history of this franchise proves this statement to be completely false. It does no such thing. Just because the Sabres haven't put together the right locker room recently doesn't mean it's harder to find character players than star players. The Steve Otts of the world are much easier to acquire than 1st line talent. Or do you somehow think we could have traded a broken down Roy for a top center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 It does no such thing. Just because the Sabres haven't put together the right locker room recently doesn't mean it's harder to find character players than star players. The Steve Otts of the world are much easier to acquire than 1st line talent. Or do you somehow think we could have traded a broken down Roy for a top center? This is true. First line talent- literally first line talent - is much harder to acquire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Dan Yippee Paille Motherfunkster Oh, that's good. I can't take credit. I read that the Bruins were screaming that (in its truer form) in the celebration scrum when Paille scored the OT winner. I always liked Paille - he just needed to move on. There wasn't a market for him in 2009 - he just happened to fit in Boston. Exactamundo. I happen to agree with White. Your not trading everything, your trading Depth, and in doing so your almost ensuring a franchise player this year and perhaps 1 or 2 more over the next 2 seasons to come. Many fail to understand this basic truth...... "The Buffalo Sabres very existence in mediocrity is specifically due to their failures in addressing the franchise player situation on the roster" I'm not sure what White's saying -- that you should sell the farm to get a presumed (but not guaranteed) franchise player? I dunno. I think the team is trying track toward the Boston model -- scoring/hitting balance across the roster, hard-working guys who play for each other. That, and this year's draft is apparently a really good one. I will agree with White when it's warranted (begrudgingly), but not on this. Also, please keep in mind: There's no way to differentiate between what White may actually believe and what he's espousing in a calculated effort to keep people listening, clicking, and calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 It does no such thing. Just because the Sabres haven't put together the right locker room recently doesn't mean it's harder to find character players than star players. The Steve Otts of the world are much easier to acquire than 1st line talent. Or do you somehow think we could have traded a broken down Roy for a top center? This team has had over the years many, many talented hockey players. The short supply has been in the Steve Ott, Michael Peca and Chris Drury types that bring character and leadership. You focus on the "top line" players without addressing the vast void in character you'll just continuing the same process of failure. If "character" players were so easy to obtain it wouldn't have been such a huge problem as it has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Point taken, but most teams aren't going to give up one to get three. How many 3 for 1 trades have you seen in recent years? He's made some bad trades. But I'm not going to hold the Golisano days against him. So far he got the better of the Hodgson trade. He got the better of the Ott trade, He got a first for Gaustad and I think he made out in the P-Ville trade. I think his moves since Pegula came in have been pretty decent. He didn't address the center situation right away, but now we've go three young centers looking towards the future and possibly THREE first rounders this year. Aside from the Leino contract (I need to see this year to give my final judgement on Myers, he did piss me off last year), I think he's done pretty well the last two years. Agreed, and no one could have foreseen Myers being where he is now. Leino's injury and misuse have also made it hard to judge him. When he's been on the ice I feel he's added the necessary puck control the Sabres have sorely missed. We'll see if he's healthy enough to fully contribute. I'll take what you say under consideration, but in the end, I'll go with Devine's statement on giving up a great deal of "Depth" (something you state the sabres are not deep in) but Devine says they'd have to give up, which implies they do, in fact, have it. I do not however, disagree with your opinion on the toughness issue, but after 5 seasons of watching the former roster go, I'd like to point out that since the depature of D/B there were 0 clutch players on the team. Yes, that has to do with that never say die attitude, it also is a tribute to the talent those 2 players were overall with the chemistry of the team, I don't see that happening this time around, I could be wrong, but that's why I state it's a roll of the dice. Top end talent taken at the top of the draft, not so much overall. Here's the entire problem summed up. As you claim the Sabres had ZERO clutch players on the team when Briere and Drury left. Well, the management at the time was hitching its future on Vanek, Roy, Gaustad, Stafford, Pominville, Miller, etc. They were supposed to be that next group of players that could get the Sabres where they need to go. Did we think they were going to be clutch players at the time? I'm thinking, just maybe, we did. It clearly hasn't happened and all of us are left wondering where the character and drive is on the team. What was realized, over the past few seasons is that those players just weren't who we thought they were. So, the Sabres have been moving the pieces to alter the team. Could they have let them all go at once? Perhaps, but what would they have gone for? If the Sabres turned out 6 players in one season teams in the league would be wondering just how bad those players must be for the Sabres to be willing to deal ALL OF THEM. Instead they dropped the pieces they could, when they could, to get value. When it comes to Stafford we all don't like him and we think he should be gone. Okay, but who takes his place? if you can't trade him for value AND there's no one in the system ready to play that position on the team then isn't there a reason to keep him there and HOPE he improves? So Gaustad is gone and in his place they have a guy who by all accounts refuses to be outworked by anyone. Roy is gone and in his place they have a guy who clearly defines the character and accountability aspects the team has needed. (They also have a serviceable defenseman). Roy didn't even last a season in Dallas. They moved what was supposed to be a big, power forward for a guy who has added necessary skill at the top line (And also received a serviceable defenseman). They moved Pominville and we don't know yet what players will be in the draft picks but we clearly know that they received a player who again sets a work ethic tone and has some skill and also a goaltender who allows for flexibility. I'm not going to blast a GM for saying he can't move up in the draft unless another team is able to move up using resources we would have had to offer. We don't know yet. We know nothing. Even the discussion on trying to sign Miller could be a huge smokescreen. After all, if the prevailing thinking is that Miller is not signing in Buffalo then teams are going to offer far less for him than they would if they believed he was going to sign. The team now has players on it who define a "lunch pail" work ethic. Weber, Ott, Porter, Flynn, Foligno all play that way. Girgensons and Larsson are also supposed to be that way. I'm just not as down on this team as everyone else I guess. Oh and one last thing.. Jeremy White is a moron, giving him a job and allowing him to speak are some of the worst decisions anyone can make. It's definitely to the point that most of the radio hosts at WGR should just leave. They are clearly all idiots who have no ability to apply any sort of critical thinking ability to why things are happening and instead want to be as daft as the BN reporters in their use of hyperbole and attempts to cause fan rioting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Jeremy White is a moron, giving him a job and allowing him to speak are some of the worst decisions anyone can make. It's definitely to the point that most of the radio hosts at WGR should just leave. They are clearly all idiots who have no ability to apply any sort of critical thinking ability to why things are happening and instead want to be as daft as the BN reporters in their use of hyperbole and attempts to cause fan rioting. I've had beers with Schopp and White, separately, through two different common points of connection I share with them. Neither of them are dummies, and, IMO, neither of them truly believe half or more of the stuff they say on the air. What they do is, in some respects, an act. If you're not cognizant of that, then you're getting trolled. That doesn't mean that I can bear listening to either of them. I can't. But those two guys specifically -- Schopp and White -- have the same sort of job/role in their programs -- to be the guy that agitates the listeners (one of the easiest ways to do that: belittle and talk over callers). I will also note: Bulldog's just a mensch. You may not like listening to him, but he's just a good dude -- salt of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Very little on this thread about what was said about the Vanek and Miller situations. It sounds like neither of them have made any definite commitments about wanting to stay, or wanting to go. And nobody asked about trade talks — which have to be going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 Regier specifically told the fan base to prepare for more suffering. I pray to the hockey gods he means what he says, because I'd trade anything on this roster or in the pipeline right now to move up and gain a franchise player to build around in the forward depths. A 3 to 5 year rebuild/retooling (call it what you will) to get the team to potential Stanley Cup contention is a hell of a sight better then continuing to fill the depth ranks, roll the dice and continue on endless in the realm of mediocrity. The "bottoming out" and the 3 to 5 year rebuild may be exactly what is necessary (and certainly appears to be forthcoming). But, why do the Sabres feel it necessary to be so honest about it? Most other majoer league sports teams would at least try to put a positive spin on a crappy situation. The Sabres seem to delight in saying (and doing) things that even further pi$$ off their fan base.Hey, if you've explored the possibility of trading to move up in the draft and it hasn't happened (and isn't likely to), why do you have to hold a press conference to announce it to the world? If asked about it, just say that the draft is still nine days off and negotiations are continuing (even if they are not). Glass half full, Darcy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 The "bottoming out" and the 3 to 5 year rebuild may be exactly what is necessary (and certainly appears to be forthcoming). But, why do the Sabres feel it necessary to be so honest about it? Most other majoer league sports teams would at least try to put a positive spin on a crappy situation. The Sabres seem to delight in saying (and doing) things that even further pi$$ off their fan base.Hey, if you've explored the possibility of trading to move up in the draft and it hasn't happened (and isn't likely to), why do you have to hold a press conference to announce it to the world? If asked about it, just say that the draft is still nine days off and negotiations are continuing (even if they are not). Glass half full, Darcy... On one hand, that's why I suspect it's part of the negotiating process. On the other, it's certainly Darcy's MO to keep things nice and depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 This team has had over the years many, many talented hockey players. The short supply has been in the Steve Ott, Michael Peca and Chris Drury types that bring character and leadership. You focus on the "top line" players without addressing the vast void in character you'll just continuing the same process of failure. If "character" players were so easy to obtain it wouldn't have been such a huge problem as it has been. You two are talking past each other. His point isn't that Buffalo has had more character guys. His point is there is more of them in the league and the price tag for them isn't as high as skilled players. Unfortuantely the Sabres haven't valued the addition of those players as highly as they should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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