The "trial" of Terry Pegula

[Weave]

What if I told you Terry Pegula was meddling with the Premium Whiskey market?

 

When whiskey is as uninteresting as this team I'll find a different pour.

 

HELLOOOOO tequila!

[bunomatic]

This wouldn't be the only team that takes diet and nutrition seriously. The Canucks monitor the players diets as well as their sleep patterns. I'm sure most teams do. You've got to gain any advantage you can if you want to win in this league. I'm ok with it.

[That Aud Smell]

This wouldn't be the only team that takes diet and nutrition seriously. The Canucks monitor the players diets as well as their sleep patterns. I'm sure most teams do. You've got to gain any advantage you can if you want to win in this league. I'm ok with it.

 

I firmly believe this to be true.

 

And, again: If in 6 years, the team has a Cup and word gets out that our young star center revamped his diet after Terry arranged for a food sensitivity blood test, then you'll have 1000s of WNYers emulating the practice and it'll be part of local lore.

[qwksndmonster]

Fair enough. Where do you stand on professional sports owners asking their players to take blood tests and go on elimination diets? Smart?

I don't really know the circumstances. From the outside it definitely seems like an odd thing for an owner to be involved with. Pegula is an odd duck but he's passionate. If he thinks it'll help these guys win, he'll tell them to their faces. He established that as his style when he personally went to Calgary to speak to the Regehrs. I'd rather him be spending his time doing stuff like this than meddle with Tim Murray as you fear him to be doing whenever we don't see him.

Edited March 21, 2014 by qwksndmonster

[bunomatic]

I don't really know the circumstances. From the outside it definitely seems like an odd thing for an owner to be involved with. Pegula is an odd duck but he's passionate. If he thinks it'll help these guys win, he'll tell them to their faces. He established that as his style when he personally went to Calgary to speak to the Regehrs. I'd rather him be spending his time doing stuff like this than meddle with Tim Murray as you fear him to be doing whenever we don't see him.

 

Nice avatar. That was quick.

[darksabre]

 

 

Nice avatar. That was quick.

 

:thumbsup:

[I am Defecting]

Why do we think he's a meddler???

 

Here's what TPegs bragged to Kevin Sylvester about his influence on player personnel. I submit this as evidence:

 

"Maybe someone was holding the painters hand, while he was doing the painting. / It's just my way of doing things. I'm not saying it's the right way. / You might talk to, um, some of the other owners around the league, and they'll tell you, you know 'who is this new owner? what, is he crazy? You know, why give this guy money, or that?' And y'know, hey, it was my decision. It was something I wanted to do. / It's my style, so I'm going to do things my way. / Nobody's got the market cornered on hockey brains." -Terry Pegula, June 18, 2013

 

Great investigative journalism by Sylvester, by the way, coaxing this confession out of Pegula, without tipping him off to the fact that he was being recorded.

 

http://audio.wgr550.com/a/76636369/6-18-sabres-owner-terry-pegula-discusses-darcy-regier-thomas-vanek-ryan-miller-and-more.htm

Edited March 21, 2014 by Marcellus

[That Aud Smell]

Pegula is an odd duck but he's passionate. ... I'd rather him be spending his time doing stuff like this than meddle with Tim Murray as you fear him to be doing whenever we don't see him.

 

This is a nice take.

 

Why do we think he's a meddler???

 

Here's what TPegs bragged to Kevin Sylvester about his influence on player personnel. I submit this as evidence:

 

"Maybe someone was holding the painters hand, while he was doing the painting. / It's just my way of doing things. I'm not saying it's the right way. / You might talk to, um, some of the other owners around the league, and they'll tell you, you know 'who is this new owner? what, is he crazy? You know, why give this guy money, or that?' And y'know, hey, it was my decision. It was something I wanted to do. / It's my style, so I'm going to do things my way. / Nobody's got the market cornered on hockey brains." -Terry Pegula, June 18, 2013

 

Great investigative journalism by Sylvester, by the way, coaxing this confession out of Pegula, without tipping him off to the fact that he was being recorded.

 

http://audio.wgr550.com/a/76636369/6-18-sabres-owner-terry-pegula-discusses-darcy-regier-thomas-vanek-ryan-miller-and-more.htm

 

It's admissible, but I don't find it all that persuasive. He was alluding to DR shackled by Golisano and admitting it was his decision to throw a bunch of money at players in an effort to take steps forward as a franchise. There's stronger evidence out there of him interposing himself with player personnel.

 

That "my decision" line has been beat to death. We are a funny species. For years, we (well, a large majority of us) pined for an owner who would spend freely to advance the team's fortunes. Then when we got one, it took a matter of months before we (well, many of us) decried him for spending foolishly.

[PASabreFan]

Freely v. Foolishly. Landmark case.

[Marvelo]

Why do we think he's a meddler???

 

Here's what TPegs bragged to Kevin Sylvester about his influence on player personnel. I submit this as evidence:

 

"Maybe someone was holding the painters hand, while he was doing the painting. / It's just my way of doing things. I'm not saying it's the right way. / You might talk to, um, some of the other owners around the league, and they'll tell you, you know 'who is this new owner? what, is he crazy? You know, why give this guy money, or that?' And y'know, hey, it was my decision. It was something I wanted to do. / It's my style, so I'm going to do things my way. / Nobody's got the market cornered on hockey brains." -Terry Pegula, June 18, 2013

 

Great investigative journalism by Sylvester, by the way, coaxing this confession out of Pegula, without tipping him off to the fact that he was being recorded.

 

http://audio.wgr550....er-and-more.htm

 

Pegula sounds like a moron. How do people like him get so much money? Listening to him is not reassuring.

Edited March 21, 2014 by 716

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

 

 

Pegula sounds like a moron. How do people like him get so much money? Listening to him is not reassuring.

[nfreeman]

I've never been more depressed about the future of the Sabres.

 

Let's see. We've got an owner who micromanages his team to the point of wanting to know if Cody McCormick's tummy feels all oogy after eating a banana — and yet some fans still aren't convinced Pegula is a meddler, and that meddling cost us Pat LaFontaine's services.

 

Maybe I shouldn't be so pessimistic about my fellow fans. Support for Terry does seem to be waning. At the very least, the fanbois are in hiding. Seriously, is there anyone willing to step up and defend this guy any more?

 

Has there been anything whatsoever to suggest that PLF left because of TP's "meddling?" Any rumors? Innuendo? Anything other than your sheer speculation?

 

For that matter, if PLF were still here, would there be any unease about TP, in light of him having jettisoned Darcy, brought back Nolan, signed off on Murray and Patrick and allowed Murray to implement the tank? I didn't see TP pushing to make any trades or other hockey moves designed to get the team into the playoffs this year -- did you? Or for that matter did you see him pushing any hockey moves of any kind?

 

No. You didn't. You saw him bringing in Battista, whom many here have decided is Lucifer's nephew, and pushing some kind of nutrition program (after it came out a few months ago that Dwight Howard was eating the equivalent of 30 candy bars a day or something like that).

 

Whoop-de-dam-do.

 

He's also poured money into both this team and this benighted city, when literally no one else has been willing to do so -- probably because both are economically irrational moves. How's that for "meddling?" Or do you still see some kind of sinister plot afoot?

 

The team stinks. TP took over and gave DR plenty of rope, and DR hung himself with it, along with the rest of us. After enough time had gone by, TP decided to make a change and did so. His process for doing so included bringing in a good hockey person from outside his inner circle -- which is exactly what you wanted him to do. That's what a good boss does.

 

Then PLF left and none of us knows exactly why, although it seems pretty likely that PLF contributed to the circumstances that led to his departure. Clearly nobody is happy that PLF left. It makes us uneasy and concerned that we are dealing with a James Dolan or a Dan Snyder here and not a Mike Illitch. That's understandable. But other than PLF's second hair-trigger resignation of a senior role with an NHL team, there isn't a GD thing to suggest that TP might be anything less than a gift from heaven to Sabres fans.

 

We all want a winning team. It's going to take some time. That's just life.

[nucci]

If only we can get an owner that has deep pockets and wants to win.

Wanting to do something and actually doing it are two different things. It's early but so far not very successful.

[K-9]

Has there been anything whatsoever to suggest that PLF left because of TP's "meddling?" Any rumors? Innuendo? Anything other than your sheer speculation?

 

For that matter, if PLF were still here, would there be any unease about TP, in light of him having jettisoned Darcy, brought back Nolan, signed off on Murray and Patrick and allowed Murray to implement the tank? I didn't see TP pushing to make any trades or other hockey moves designed to get the team into the playoffs this year -- did you? Or for that matter did you see him pushing any hockey moves of any kind?

 

No. You didn't. You saw him bringing in Battista, whom many here have decided is Lucifer's nephew, and pushing some kind of nutrition program (after it came out a few months ago that Dwight Howard was eating the equivalent of 30 candy bars a day or something like that).

 

Whoop-de-dam-do.

 

He's also poured money into both this team and this benighted city, when literally no one else has been willing to do so -- probably because both are economically irrational moves. How's that for "meddling?" Or do you still see some kind of sinister plot afoot?

 

The team stinks. TP took over and gave DR plenty of rope, and DR hung himself with it, along with the rest of us. After enough time had gone by, TP decided to make a change and did so. His process for doing so included bringing in a good hockey person from outside his inner circle -- which is exactly what you wanted him to do. That's what a good boss does.

 

Then PLF left and none of us knows exactly why, although it seems pretty likely that PLF contributed to the circumstances that led to his departure. Clearly nobody is happy that PLF left. It makes us uneasy and concerned that we are dealing with a James Dolan or a Dan Snyder here and not a Mike Illitch. That's understandable. But other than PLF's second hair-trigger resignation of a senior role with an NHL team, there isn't a GD thing to suggest that TP might be anything less than a gift from heaven to Sabres fans.

 

We all want a winning team. It's going to take some time. That's just life.

 

Outstanding take on the entirety of the situation.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[TrueBlueGED]

Has there been anything whatsoever to suggest that PLF left because of TP's "meddling?" Any rumors? Innuendo? Anything other than your sheer speculation?

 

For that matter, if PLF were still here, would there be any unease about TP, in light of him having jettisoned Darcy, brought back Nolan, signed off on Murray and Patrick and allowed Murray to implement the tank? I didn't see TP pushing to make any trades or other hockey moves designed to get the team into the playoffs this year -- did you? Or for that matter did you see him pushing any hockey moves of any kind?

 

No. You didn't. You saw him bringing in Battista, whom many here have decided is Lucifer's nephew, and pushing some kind of nutrition program (after it came out a few months ago that Dwight Howard was eating the equivalent of 30 candy bars a day or something like that).

 

Whoop-de-dam-do.

 

He's also poured money into both this team and this benighted city, when literally no one else has been willing to do so -- probably because both are economically irrational moves. How's that for "meddling?" Or do you still see some kind of sinister plot afoot?

 

The team stinks. TP took over and gave DR plenty of rope, and DR hung himself with it, along with the rest of us. After enough time had gone by, TP decided to make a change and did so. His process for doing so included bringing in a good hockey person from outside his inner circle -- which is exactly what you wanted him to do. That's what a good boss does.

 

Then PLF left and none of us knows exactly why, although it seems pretty likely that PLF contributed to the circumstances that led to his departure. Clearly nobody is happy that PLF left. It makes us uneasy and concerned that we are dealing with a James Dolan or a Dan Snyder here and not a Mike Illitch. That's understandable. But other than PLF's second hair-trigger resignation of a senior role with an NHL team, there isn't a GD thing to suggest that TP might be anything less than a gift from heaven to Sabres fans.

 

We all want a winning team. It's going to take some time. That's just life.

 

Evidence is nearly as overrated as Miller.

[IKnowPhysics]

Support for Terry does seem to be waning. At the very least, the fanbois are in hiding. Seriously, is there anyone willing to step up and defend this guy any more?

 

If you think that the support has waned because people bought into the meddling idea, you are way out of touch.

 

This "meddling" bit is so ###### tired, I can't waste my time with it anymore. It's a joke; this whole topic has become an enormously ###### joke because of its relentless stupidity. It's an unfounded, baseless, paranoid delusion that has somehow, through sheer ignorance and unwillingness to listen to reason, willed it's way into perpetuity. And I'm tired of fighting it. I'm tired of typing out requests for evidence and the exercise of reason and rational thought.

 

So if being exhausted by trying to demonstrate how weak these dumb arguments are makes me a "Pegula fanboi in hiding," then ###### so be it. Congratulations. But don't claim righteous victory in the name of what is right. Claim one because you are successfully defending what so many people think is too stupid to contest.

 

I'm not even convinced that this whole concept wasn't designed to troll users that can think straight.

 

I'll defend Pegula when he needs defending. You're very clear about your point of view and everything you come across confirms it definitively, it's tiresome.

 

This.

 

Has there been anything whatsoever to suggest that PLF left because of TP's "meddling?" Any rumors? Innuendo? Anything other than your sheer speculation?

 

For that matter, if PLF were still here, would there be any unease about TP, in light of him having jettisoned Darcy, brought back Nolan, signed off on Murray and Patrick and allowed Murray to implement the tank? I didn't see TP pushing to make any trades or other hockey moves designed to get the team into the playoffs this year -- did you? Or for that matter did you see him pushing any hockey moves of any kind?

 

No. You didn't. You saw him bringing in Battista, whom many here have decided is Lucifer's nephew, and pushing some kind of nutrition program (after it came out a few months ago that Dwight Howard was eating the equivalent of 30 candy bars a day or something like that).

 

Whoop-de-dam-do.

 

He's also poured money into both this team and this benighted city, when literally no one else has been willing to do so -- probably because both are economically irrational moves. How's that for "meddling?" Or do you still see some kind of sinister plot afoot?

 

The team stinks. TP took over and gave DR plenty of rope, and DR hung himself with it, along with the rest of us. After enough time had gone by, TP decided to make a change and did so. His process for doing so included bringing in a good hockey person from outside his inner circle -- which is exactly what you wanted him to do. That's what a good boss does.

 

Then PLF left and none of us knows exactly why, although it seems pretty likely that PLF contributed to the circumstances that led to his departure. Clearly nobody is happy that PLF left. It makes us uneasy and concerned that we are dealing with a James Dolan or a Dan Snyder here and not a Mike Illitch. That's understandable. But other than PLF's second hair-trigger resignation of a senior role with an NHL team, there isn't a GD thing to suggest that TP might be anything less than a gift from heaven to Sabres fans.

 

We all want a winning team. It's going to take some time. That's just life.

 

All of that.

 

 

And I'm not even mad. I'm really ambivalent, because at the end of the day, none of this ###### matters. Pegula owns the team, He'll operate it in the fashion of his choosing. And whether you agree or disagree with what it is, it is what it is.

 

In my perception, Pegula's doing quite a lot of good inside and outside the Sabres organization, and inside and outside the hockey department of the Sabres organization. I'm fine with all of that, and I've grown weary of defending that position.

 

edit: This thread is it's own perfect example. Back on page three, nine months ago:

 

Your honor, before you do so, the prosecution, citing the Charlie McCarthy hearings and American Tuba Company v. Warren P. Smith, officially withdraws all charges.

 

There just ain't no point anymore.

Edited March 23, 2014 by IKnowPhysics

[PASabreFan]

Physics, and others who demand evidence, this thread from the beginning is chock full of it (evidence, that is). If you refuse to see it, or consider it, fine. But don't suggest I'm making stuff up. Evidence can be interpreted different ways, sure. Ehrhoff became a Sabre after the kid tweeted that her dad liked him. The owner gave his full support to Lindy on Day One — but was the owner making the call or voicing the GM's position? Darcy said Pegula would determine the extent of the rebuild. True, or Darcy covering his ass? And so on.

 

The blood test story is not the least of it. Terry got out front of his own training and medical staff to push some cockamamie scammy blood test, surely because it worked for him after some avocados gave him the squirts.

 

TP took over and gave DR plenty of rope, and DR hung himself with it, along with the rest of us.

 

It's just as plausible (in my opinion more likely) that Terry was still the one "holding the brush." I suspect it was not Darcy's judgment following the 2011-2012 season that the Sabres were close to contending, that they were a few pieces short and that Regehr, Ehrhoff and Leino were going to put them over the top. Darcy is on record suggesting that adding high priced pieces to a roster without a good foundation is not the way to build. Again, CYA? Maybe.

 

 

 

Then PLF left and none of us knows exactly why, although it seems pretty likely that PLF contributed to the circumstances that led to his departure.

 

Sheer speculation. Two can play.

Edited March 23, 2014 by PASabreFan

[HopefulFuture]

With such a short period of time and a significant lack of direct evidence offered by the prosecution team this case is hereby dismissed.

 

Mr. Pegula, the court and prosecution should apologize.....

[Weave]

This "meddling" bit is so ###### tired, I can't waste my time with it anymore.

 

And yet........

 

:P

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

With such a short period of time and a significant lack of direct evidence offered by the prosecution team this case is hereby dismissed.

 

Mr. Pegula, the court and prosecution should apologize.....

 

4 years.....here we are......

[I am Defecting]

Oh yeah?! Terry told me, that he thinks the prosecution is a bunch of poop-stains!

As far as Terry's concerned, you can all sniff his rotten underwear!

Like Ted Black keeps telling us, it's Terry's team, so he can do as he likes. If the fans don't like it, then they're not REAL. Who needs FAKE fans?!

If the players don't like it, then we got like a jillion future all-stars we could draft.

If Ted Nolan doesn't like it, then he's finished in this league. Hope he likes eating caribou.

If Pat Lafontaine doesn't like it, then he's a mentally soft, impossible to work with, two-faced quitter!

 

What's with the culture of negativity, coming from the press-corps? If you don't like the way that Terry is doing things, then why don't you go and suck it?!

 

So there! You like that? I thought so. No?! Well, Uncle Terry don't give a damn. Case dismissed, bioches. Me and the judge gotta go drink Scotches.

[K-9]

4 years.....here we are......

 

Only 3 years, but who's counting? I'm still giving him until the end of this year to see whether or not his vision of winning a Stanley Cup in three years comes true.

 

GO SABRES!!!

Edited March 23, 2014 by K-9

[nfreeman]

Physics, and others who demand evidence, this thread from the beginning is chock full of it (evidence, that is). If you refuse to see it, or consider it, fine. But don't suggest I'm making stuff up. Evidence can be interpreted different ways, sure. Ehrhoff became a Sabre after the kid tweeted that her dad liked him. The owner gave his full support to Lindy on Day One — but was the owner making the call or voicing the GM's position? Darcy said Pegula would determine the extent of the rebuild. True, or Darcy covering his ass? And so on.

 

Yes, "evidence" -- if a child's tweet can be viewed as "evidence" -- can be interpreted different ways. But I haven't seen anything even that flimsy cited in support of the theory that TP's alleged meddling resulted in PLF leaving. So to the extent you are pushing that theory -- yes, you are making stuff up.

 

As for Lindy remaining as coach -- are you really suggesting that DR would've fired Lindy after TP took over? Really? After they made the playoffs 2 years in a row and had Philly on the ropes in game 6? Nonsense.

 

As for DR's statement about TP "determining the scope of the rebuild" -- and I don't think those were the words he used, but whatever -- any GM in the NHL would get his owner's signoff before implementing a teardown like the Sabres just implemented.

 

The blood test story is not the least of it. Terry got out front of his own training and medical staff to push some cockamamie scammy blood test, surely because it worked for him after some avocados gave him the squirts.

 

I don't understand this statement. Are you saying there is something other than a nutritional/health program going on here?

 

It's just as plausible (in my opinion more likely) that Terry was still the one "holding the brush." I suspect it was not Darcy's judgment following the 2011-2012 season that the Sabres were close to contending, that they were a few pieces short and that Regehr, Ehrhoff and Leino were going to put them over the top. Darcy is on record suggesting that adding high priced pieces to a roster without a good foundation is not the way to build. Again, CYA? Maybe.

 

I'm sure he didn't think that following 2011-12, but those guys were signed after 2010-11, the season that ended in the game 7 playoff loss to Philly -- a team that had made the Finals the prior year. The Sabres, as I would've expected you to have remembered, made the playoffs in 2009-10 and again in 2010-11, and played a very tough, competitive series against Philly. They were winning the series 3-2 and winning game 6 at home in the 3rd period before losing game 6 in OT (on a goal by none other than Ville Leino) and then hiding under the bed in game 7.

 

The Sabres' "top 6" forwards were terrible yet again in that series, so it was reasonable to think that they could've used an upgrade, and the Sabres, with their new billionaire owner (who bought the team 2 months before that series), threw money at the top UFA forward, Brad Richards. Richards rejected their overtures so they settled on overpaying Leino as well as bringing in Ehrhoff (unquestionably the top FA defenseman that year) and Regehr, a very solid, tough defenseman.

 

I don't think anyone seriously thinks that they hurt themselves by bringing in Ehrhoff or Regehr. Leino could very well have been the result of overexcitement by TP -- or not -- we'll never know. But are you really arguing that bringing in Leino somehow resulted in the royal CF we have today?

 

Sheer speculation. Two can play.

 

No. Not sheer speculation. Multiple media sources have reported that PLF was tempermental and difficult to work with.

 

4 years.....here we are......

 

Not 4 years. 3 years.

 

I generally agree with much of what you have to say, but maintaining credibility requires that you not exaggerate a key number in your position by 33%.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

 

 

 

Not 4 years. 3 years.

 

I generally agree with much of what you have to say, but maintaining credibility requires that you not exaggerate a key number in your position by 33%.

 

4 years....

 

4 trade deadlines...

 

1 month away from 4th season...

 

3 months away from 4th draft....

 

Please Retract....

[K-9]

4 years....

 

4 trade deadlines...

 

1 month away from 4th season...

 

3 months away from 4th draft....

 

Please Retract....

 

February 18, 2011 - March 23, 2014 is not 4 years. Perhaps you're confusing chronological time with the number of events that can occur within it.

 

Does it really matter?

 

GO SABRES!!!