LastPommerFan Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I agree, the good he's done does not mitigate the evil he leveled on people. I agree with peppy, I don't care about the race, everyone was doping in the race, I care about the lawsuits and intimidation and blacklisting. I also don't think the wrongs he committed take away from the good he's done in the fight against cancer. He is a man of extremes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 I agree, the good he's done does not mitigate the evil he leveled on people. I agree with peppy, I don't care about the race, everyone was doping in the race, I care about the lawsuits and intimidation and blacklisting. I also don't think the wrongs he committed take away from the good he's done in the fight against cancer. He is a man of extremes. Completely agree on the races. He dominated the field when the field was doing the same things he was. He didn't cheat to win, he was better than everyone. Obviously what he did to certain individuals to try to keep his doping secret is/was reprehensible in every way, and nothing will change that. That said, I think the money he raised has contributed more to society than his actions against individuals has detracted from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Completely agree on the races. He dominated the field when the field was doing the same things he was. He didn't cheat to win, he was better than everyone. Obviously what he did to certain individuals to try to keep his doping secret is/was reprehensible in every way, and nothing will change that. That said, I think the money he raised has contributed more to society than his actions against individuals has detracted from it. Socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppy22 Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 To say everyone juiced and he won it fair is ridiculous. Not 100% of all cyclists juiced... The guy who came in 128th might not have juiced and he could have won it, if no one else would have used steroids. He juiced and so all he has accomplished in races does not matter. He is not and will not be the best racer of all time because he didnt prove that he can do it without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 To say everyone juiced and he won it fair is ridiculous. Not 100% of all cyclists juiced... The guy who came in 128th might not have juiced and he could have won it, if no one else would have used steroids. He juiced and so all he has accomplished in races does not matter. He is not and will not be the best racer of all time because he didnt prove that he can do it without. To stick with your example, I'd give it approximately a .00001% chance that juice can catapult an athlete 128 spots higher on the pecking order. My general feelings on doping is they can move a player up a single tier of ability: grocery clerk-minor leaguer, depth player-low end regular, very good-great, and so on. I think people tend to either overestimate the effects juicing has, or underestimate the quality of athlete somebody is before doping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I'm glad Lance juiced. For a second people actually gave a crap about cycling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I'm glad Lance juiced. For a second people actually gave a crap about cycling. I'm going do my best Drane impression here: I think UCI knew about the doping and helped him beat the tests. They gained more by getting access to the US market than anyone else, including Lance. There us almost no way he could escape the tests for that long, no matter how good he was, without their help our at least tacit approval. This its gonna come out, asmc I think it will cost cycling it's spot in the olympic program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I haven't been following too closely and I know lance used EPO, which basically boosts the oxygen affinity of red blood cells, however this is very hard to test for and as I recall is only in the body for a short period of time. How did he get caught to start all of this public disgrace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I haven't been following too closely and I know lance used EPO, which basically boosts the oxygen affinity of red blood cells, however this is very hard to test for and as I recall is only in the body for a short period of time. How did he get caught to start all of this public disgrace? I think they take samples right after the race/leg/whenever. The tests at the time didn't find anything, but the archived blood was retested last year (?) and found issues. LA finally admitted to it this week. (don't take this as gospel, just what I've pieced together not really paying attention that closely) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppy22 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 To stick with your example, I'd give it approximately a .00001% chance that juice can catapult an athlete 128 spots higher on the pecking order. My general feelings on doping is they can move a player up a single tier of ability: grocery clerk-minor leaguer, depth player-low end regular, very good-great, and so on. I think people tend to either overestimate the effects juicing has, or underestimate the quality of athlete somebody is before doping. Well doping does a lot. Especially Lance didnt just use the stuff during the TdF. He used it during practice and before the TdF so he could practice more and recover quickly... That changes a lot. Best example Floyd Landis.. 19. July 2006 16th stage... Floyd Landis lead in the race for the maillot jaune... On the 16th stage he lost 8 minutes to the guys who were behind him. He was totally out of gas no chance to keep up with the others... ONE day later on one of the most difficult stages of the Tour he is flying up the hill again (alone without help) winning it by almost 6 minutes. A few days later it was revealed that Landis was using testosteron on that stage... So from nowhere able to compete to dominating everyone within one day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Who's this Lance Armstrong? Isn't he that guy who dated Sheryl Crow for a minute? Even with only one nut, all he wanted to do was have some fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Patriots self destructing. Ravens/Niners Superbowl? Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Patriots self destructing. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Very, very disappointed Ravens are in the big game... Live in MD and the Ray Lewis swan song 24/7 is unbearable. Have to admit I saw it coming though. Ravens are pretty formidable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I hate the Patriots. And it'll be cool to see two brothers coaching against each other. I'm torn between who I want to win, I was shocked the ravens won today tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I was so happy last night to watch Tom Brady and Patriots implode. Made today that much better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I hate the Patriots. And it'll be cool to see two brothers coaching against each other. I'm torn between who I want to win, I was shocked the ravens won today tho I felt uncomfortable making the facebook joke about this being the second time brothers have coached against each other in the superbowl, but it needed to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I felt uncomfortable making the facebook joke about this being the second time brothers have coached against each other in the superbowl, but it needed to be done. It took me a second, but :lol: . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 It took me a second, but :lol: . I may be extra blonde today, but I'm not understanding this one... Lil help lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 I may be extra blonde today, but I'm not understanding this one... Lil help lol Colts-Bears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Let's go Ravens. They've been my playoff team since the bills made the post season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Let's go Ravens. They've been my playoff team since the bills made the post season. Same here. When the Bills are out of the hunt (mid-October, give or take), I start rooting for the Ravens. Got into them while living in Maryland with my Ravens-fan gf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 I can't root for the Ravens simply because the whole Ray Lewis thing. I'm all-in on the 49ers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 I can't root for the Ravens simply because the whole Ray Lewis thing. I'm all-in on the 49ers! What ray lewis thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 What ray lewis thing? The glorification of an individual, who at the very least, was involved in the cover-up of a double murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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