Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

[deluca67]

I tend to agree. I just wanted to point out that when given the chance so far, Kassian has yet to show he'll be the playoff monster that DeLuca thinks he is.

His skill set and build make him the type of player teams need to win in the playoffs, that's undeniable.

So you are watching the games. Explain Kassian's anemic numbers -

 

Apples to Apples- both 3rd liners:

 

Marcus Foligno TOI 14:36 game Hits 135 Blocked shots 20 6g 8a -14 5 Majors

Zack Kassian TOI 12:17 game Hits 60 hits Blocked shots 5 10g 6a -5 3 Majors

 

 

 

 

What I see in Kassian is a guy that can't forecheck, can't skate well enough to get into the corners, lacks the timing to cover point well.

 

What I see in Foligno is a guy that busted hump to improve his skating - and has - sticks up for teammates and is consistent when not scoring.

 

I don't see what you are seeing in Kassian (NB: I see he has talent, I just don't see it now, and I watched him twice this month)

 

What exactly are you seeing?

 

(add the fact that Foligno is younger, and is developing into a very nice option on draws.....would you trade Marcus for Zack straight up? I wouldn't)

Kassian's game is improving leaps and bounds. He certainly can play in the corners and fore checks pretty well. He is a big body that causes problems for defenders in the offensive zone. That and his improved play in the defensive zone where he is playing a more controlled game is part of the reason he is seeing increased minutes. It is clear that someone is working with him on his defenive zone positioning and stick work. He has become far more active with his stick, making sure it's in the shooting lane. I don't know about anyone else, but 10 goals at this point is a bit more than I would have expected.

 

Marcus Foligno? I like Marcus Foligno. I also think this would be a better roster with Foligno and Kassian than it is with Foligno and Hodgson.

The best you can come up with is calling me a liar?

 

To be clear, Kassian has played better in the past 10 games or so, but Cody Hodgson's 10 points in his past nine games proves a small sample size does not a case make.

 

When all you have is "I'm from Vancouver." is much more needed?

[X. Benedict]

His skill set and build make him the type of player teams need to win in the playoffs, that's undeniable.

Kassian's game is improving leaps and bounds. He certainly can play in the corners and fore checks pretty well. He is a big body that causes problems for defenders in the offensive zone. That and his improved play in the defensive zone where he is playing a more controlled game is part of the reason he is seeing increased minutes. It is clear that someone is working with him on his defenive zone positioning and stick work. He has become far more active with his stick, making sure it's in the shooting lane. I don't know about anyone else, but 10 goals at this point is a bit more than I would have expected.

 

Marcus Foligno? I like Marcus Foligno. I also think this would be a better roster with Foligno and Kassian than it is with Foligno and Hodgson.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. I really was interested in what you see. I'm not seeing the leaps and bounds, but the improvement you see seems well reasoned.

I can see some deft hands. I don't think his game will ever really be a Raffi Torres type wrecking ball, however. The idea is intriguing that he could be that player albeit with really great hands. Certainly that was the promise of his junior career. We'll see.

 

As Tort's said last month: "He's a work in progress."

[deluca67]

Thanks for the reply. I really was interested in what you see. I'm not seeing the leaps and bounds, but the improvement you see seems well reasoned.

I can see some deft hands. I don't think his game will ever really be a Raffi Torres type wrecking ball, however. The idea is intriguing that he could be that player albeit with really great hands. Certainly that was the promise of his junior career. We'll see.

 

As Tort's said last month: "He's a work in progress."

 

He has a long way to go. I believe there has been a progression to his game, albeit slower than fans would like, that shows, IMO, he is working on all facets off his game. Throw out names like Lucic, realistically, I can see Kassian becoming a better version of the player we all hoped Paul Gaustad would become, not is, what Gaustad was supposed to be.

[LGR4GM]

Phil Bossy....

 

OK....in reality though, the worst he is on that list is Brad May, who was a nice, tough, honest player for a long time.

 

Who can Hodgson become? I said his ceiling was Pierre Turgeon. At worst he is who?....Plante?........

 

If they both peak, Kassian is worth more than Hodgson. If they both hit their low end...Kassian is worth more than Hodgson. Hodgson needs to hit somewhere between 70-90% of his potential and Kassian 40-60% for Hodgson to be more valuable in the long run.

 

Again....(not you Bun)...please find me where I say Hodgson is a bad player. All I have done is praise his vision, compliment his outward maturity this year, and say he is a nice player. I happen to value Kassian more. 40% of NHL'rs can be a Hodgson. 3% can be a Kassian. I will take my chances on the rarity, and a kid who has turned the corner the past 6 weeks.

######. Pure and utter ######. If 40% of the NHL was Hodgson, the NHL would be a hell of a lot more fun to watch. 3% can be Kassian? That is the biggest load of horsesh## I have read on this board in a long long long long long long long long time. 3% of NHL players can be Corey Perry. So you are saying that Kassian will be a 30 goal scorer with 200hits a season who is solid on both the fore and back check? I will believe it when I see it.

 

Kassian 3%... :wallbash: freaking gotta be joking. 276 NHL players could be Hodgson but only 21 could be Kassian? Hell I can name 21 wingers tougher and better than Kassian who are within +/-2 years of him right now.

 

Kassian has the potential to be a solid second line winger in the NHL in a couple years. Cody Hodgson is a 2nd line C. This pandering and manipulation to make Kassian more than he is needs to stop.

 

His skill set and build make him the type of player teams need to win in the playoffs, that's undeniable.

Really? Because I am about to deny it. His build makes him attractive in the playoffs his compete and skill set, meh. There are numerous 3rd line wingers who bring the same build with better work ethic and worse hands, I would rather have those guys in the playoffs.

Edited January 31, 2014 by LGR4GM

[rakish]

Cody "No Defense" Hodgson on the ice tonight in the final minute when Phoenix pulled their goalie.

 

 

To me it indicates Hodgson is on the market. He has 2 empty net goals so far, and the Sabres haven't seen many empty nets. I've been looking at charts regarding zone starts. Maybe this chart is wrong, because it indicates that in Teddy's first game, he got all defensive zone starts.

[Johnny DangerFace]

This is so silly. Hodgsons low is what he is now. A 40-60 point 2nd line center. Kassians low is what he is now, a bottom line grinder who has to shoot a very high shooting percentage to get to 20 points. It's not like kassian was this once a generation talent. He was a middle of the 1st round draft pick 4 years ago.

 

There are such things as busts and players who don't improve. Armia, grigs, Ennis, Hodgson, kassian are no guarantees to ever improve. However Hodgson is the only one of those to reach a level if consistency in the nhl which is the biggest signs of someone who is going to continue to improve.

 

 

Don't be such a homer. Kassian doesn't have a higher ceiling and floor than Hodgson. Cody obviously has a higher floor. If you want to say kassian has a higher ceiling, then fine.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Numark

[K-9]

Cody "No Defense" Hodgson on the ice tonight in the final minute when Phoenix pulled their goalie.

 

I just re-calculated his chances of ever playing in the Olympics and they're now 0.017843% (after rounding and adjusting for inflation).

 

 

Why stop there? He's actually all those guys put together!

 

Literally. If you look closely, you can see the seams of the stitch work. Gruesome, but still less shocking since they removed the bolts from his neck.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[nfreeman]

I never thought the Sabres lost in 2007 because of lack of toughness. They were not beat up in that series with Ottawa - the one they lost. They outhit Ottawa....they just got outplayed. I don't think they would have beat Anaheim. But Ottawa won that series at center ice. Not in the corners. Buffalo lost that series on the PP. 2 for 30 in the series. 10%

 

2 for 30 on the PP. Toughness don't mean dick if you are 2 for 30 on the PP.

 

But repeat it long enough and it becomes something else. 12 Mike Griers wouldn't have helped.

2007 - Center Ice....and the PP. I'm sticking with it.

 

2 for 30 on the PP.

 

Word.

 

(obviously my, ahem....math doesn't help my point. I meant 6.67 % on the PP. Toughness can still mean dick at 10% PP. But it definitively don't mean dick at 6.67%)

 

It was indeed the power play. And losing an OT game, a double OT game and a 1-0 game.

 

They shouldn't have let Grier, McKee and Dumont go in the summer of 2006, but toughness isn't what cost them in that series.

 

Let's put it this way....with Cody Hodgson's skillset, he will NEVER make the Olympics. There will always be 20 or 30 guys who are just as talented or better, bigger, or tougher.

 

There is a 30% chance Kassian makes an Olympic roster over time.

 

Hodgson is a fine player, but a commodity in NHL terms. Put Plante, Holzinger, Dawe, Satan, Turgeon, Hogue, Roy, Connolly in a blender.....and you have Hodgson.

 

Kassian is a roulette wheel of Neely, Gillies, Lucic, Bossy, Nilan, Corson, May.

 

 

Dude!

 

The bolded parts are insane.

 

Unless Kassian is secretly Latvian, of course.

 

OK....in reality though, the worst he is on that list is Brad May, who was a nice, tough, honest player for a long time.

 

Who can Hodgson become? I said his ceiling was Pierre Turgeon. At worst he is who?....Plante?........

 

If they both peak, Kassian is worth more than Hodgson. If they both hit their low end...Kassian is worth more than Hodgson. Hodgson needs to hit somewhere between 70-90% of his potential and Kassian 40-60% for Hodgson to be more valuable in the long run.

 

Again....(not you Bun)...please find me where I say Hodgson is a bad player. All I have done is praise his vision, compliment his outward maturity this year, and say he is a nice player. I happen to value Kassian more. 40% of NHL'rs can be a Hodgson. 3% can be a Kassian. I will take my chances on the rarity, and a kid who has turned the corner the past 6 weeks.

 

Also a huge exaggeration.

 

I would say Hodgy's ceiling is Patrice Bergeron (and I appreciate that having a ceiling named "Patrice" kinda makes your point) and Kassian's is Lucic.

 

Both are highly valuable NHL commodities.

 

But it's very important to note that there is a better chance that Hodgy hits his ceiling than there is that Kassian hits his -- and a much better chance that Kassian doesn't rise much above his floor -- i.e. 4th liner and frequent healthy scratch.

 

More than likely Kassian becomes an improved version of what he is now. Which is not a bull in the kitchen (the guys you mention), but a perimeter player. I haven't really seen a goal yet that demonstrates Kassians willingness to bang hard inside and take the lumps necessary to earn his keep there, especially away from the puck.

 

Willing to fight, nice hands, snipes the perimeter. Not really a digger in the corners.

 

Wilf Paiement is really who he reminds me of at best. And that isn't a slam. It is more the player he is than Cam Neely or anyone you mentioned. The RH shot too. He reminds me of a Young Wilfy.

 

Now there is a blast from the past.

 

This is so silly. Hodgsons low is what he is now. A 40-60 point 2nd line center. Kassians low is what he is now, a bottom line grinder who has to shoot a very high shooting percentage to get to 20 points. It's not like kassian was this once a generation talent. He was a middle of the 1st round draft pick 4 years ago.

 

There are such things as busts and players who don't improve. Armia, grigs, Ennis, Hodgson, kassian are no guarantees to ever improve. However Hodgson is the only one of those to reach a level if consistency in the nhl which is the biggest signs of someone who is going to continue to improve.

 

Don't be such a homer. Kassian doesn't have a higher ceiling and floor than Hodgson. Cody obviously has a higher floor. If you want to say kassian has a higher ceiling, then fine.

 

Good post.

[Taro T]

More than likely Kassian becomes an improved version of what he is now. Which is not a bull in the kitchen (the guys you mention), but a perimeter player. I haven't really seen a goal yet that demonstrates Kassians willingness to bang hard inside and take the lumps necessary to earn his keep there, especially away from the puck.

 

Willing to fight, nice hands, snipes the perimeter. Not really a digger in the corners.

 

Wilf Paiement is really who he reminds me of at best. And that isn't a slam. It is more the player he is than Cam Neely or anyone you mentioned. The RH shot too. He reminds me of a Young Wilfy.

Interesting take and at this point I can see that.

 

It also might explain some of the love of Zach besides just 'he's tough and Darcy didn't want him' and some great moments in juniors; people see him as the next 99. ;)

[That Aud Smell]

Some really good discussion on how Kassian projects -- the Paiement comparison is a very interesting one.

 

I've really moved on from the win/loss view of the trade: We got a guy who, I think, can be a good NHL center and score ~55+ points per year. We needed a pro prospect like that more than we needed Kassian (vis-a-vis Foligno). If Kassian pans out for Vancouver - great. Doesn't mean we lost the trade.

[X. Benedict]

Interesting take and at this point I can see that.

 

It also might explain some of the love of Zach besides just 'he's tough and Darcy didn't want him' and some great moments in juniors; people see him as the next 99. ;)

 

Nicely done. Nicely done.

[That Aud Smell]

that neanderthal got 5 and a game tonight for boarding some poor shmuck.

 

this after that high sticking garbage.

 

good riddance.

[Johnny DangerFace]

Hodgson had a goal but whatever :)

[darksabre]

that neanderthal got 5 and a game tonight for boarding some poor shmuck.

 

this after that high sticking garbage.

 

good riddance.

 

I don't remember what my prediction was for how soon he'll play his way out of the league, but I think I'm confident.

[carpandean]

Hodgson had a goal but whatever :)

 

And an assist.

[LastPommerFan]

I don't remember what my prediction was for how soon he'll play his way out of the league, but I think I'm confident.

 

Especially in today's anti-goon environment. And having Torts as his coach certainly isn't going to help him develop the control he so sorely lacks.

[Eleven]

that neanderthal got 5 and a game tonight for boarding some poor shmuck.

 

this after that high sticking garbage.

 

good riddance.

 

He knew he screwed up as soon as he did it. He'll be sitting out for a while.

[deluca67]

that neanderthal got 5 and a game tonight for boarding some poor shmuck.

 

this after that high sticking garbage.

 

good riddance.

Hodgson had a goal but whatever :)

When you play with an edge you will occasionally step over that edge.

 

One of the problems with Hodgson is that he has no edge and plays with zero urgency.

[Eleven]

When you play with an edge you will occasionally step over that edge.

 

One of the problems with Hodgson is that he has no edge and plays with zero urgency.

 

Just like John Scott, right?

[shrader]

that neanderthal got 5 and a game tonight for boarding some poor shmuck.

 

this after that high sticking garbage.

 

good riddance.

 

The recap I heard this morning also mentioned a helmet throw, which could add a couple games. I know people can mature as they get older, but this kid is going to force himself right out of the league if he keeps going.

[That Aud Smell]

One of the problems with Hodgson is that he has no edge and plays with zero urgency.

 

not an edgy player, true. as for "zero urgency," i think that's highly debatable.

[Doohickie]

not an edgy player, true. as for "zero urgency," i think that's highly debatable.

 

It's okay to have a cool cucumber between Foligno and Stewart. I think the chemistry of that line going forward is going to be great.

[nfreeman]

That was a really dirty play by Kassian. As a repeat offender, I think he's looking at 3 to 5 games.

[shrader]

That was a really dirty play by Kassian. As a repeat offender, I think he's looking at 3 to 5 games.

 

I also heard mentioning that he threw his helmet somewhere after all of this, which could add to the game count. My youtube search is coming up blank. Did anyone see it?

[dEnnis the Menace]

That was a really dirty play by Kassian. As a repeat offender, I think he's looking at 3 to 5 games.

 

in my opinion, that was a lot dirtier than John Scott's elbow. A lot.