2012 Trade RUMOR Thread. (Keep the deadline thread for substantiated stuff).

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Lets try this 1. more. time.

 

Kane has played center this year. We know that because a) we've (well I watch any game thats on) have seen it and b) people in the media have discussed how his numbers have been down since being switched to the pivot spot. So all I was saying is that if we were to cash our chips in for a player of the "elite" variety why not go for Kane instead of Nash because at least Kane has played some center. Its really not that hard of a concept and I do not think it is possible to spell that out anymore but I will try.

 

The discussion was lets get Nash. Someone said what about Kane. I am saying if it were btw those 2 players I would take Kane because of his age, proven ability, and recent stint as a center.

 

Goodnight.

 

 

yup ik

sounds liek Leino discussion all over again. LETS GET A REAL DAMN CENTER yes caps were on purpose

[Weave]

A healthy crosby def makes us a contender.....

 

 

 

As to all of this LGR drama, everyone is bashing him for talking about wingers moving to center and their time spent in that position. You are all acting like Lindy and management hasnt been putting wingers at center all year long and for their entire duration of their time here. Kane over nash 100% of the time, he is younger, better, from buffalo and has won a cup.

 

Is Kane really any better than Nash? He's averaging about 10 more points per year than Nash when he was on a stacked team. And this year his numbers have been mediocre. He'd be yet another small forward on an already small team. I guess I'm not convinced that it is obvious that Kane is a better potential addition to our team than Nash would be. The only advantage I see in Kane over Nash is age and IMO neither is old enough that age is a concern to me.

 

 

As for the Kane-as-center discussion, see Leino, Hecht, Boyes. If we are getting Kane because he has center flexibility then we are choosing him for the wrong reason IMO.

[FolignosJock]

Is Kane really any better than Nash? He's averaging about 10 more points per year than Nash when he was on a stacked team. And this year his numbers have been mediocre. He'd be yet another small forward on an already small team. I guess I'm not convinced that it is obvious that Kane is a better potential addition to our team than Nash would be. The only advantage I see in Kane over Nash is age and IMO neither is old enough that age is a concern to me.

 

 

As for the Kane-as-center discussion, see Leino, Hecht, Boyes. If we are getting Kane because he has center flexibility then we are choosing him for the wrong reason IMO.

 

I totally agree with the center talk and was exactly what i was saying. 10 more points a year is substantial and in 5 years age is obv a huge plus in kanes column you may not be concerned with it now but if we are putting a deal together it should def be taken into account we want CUPS not cup right?

[nfreeman]

My brain hurts from this thread, but just so everyone is clear: Each of Parise, Kane and Nash is a substantially better player than anyone on the Sabres right now, and by more than a little. Vanek isn't even close to being on that level. It would be insane to pass on any of those guys in favor of a mythical #1 center who may or may not become available.

[bunomatic]

My brain hurts from this thread, but just so everyone is clear: Each of Parise, Kane and Nash is a substantially better player than anyone on the Sabres right now, and by more than a little. Vanek isn't even close to being on that level. It would be insane to pass on any of those guys in favor of a mythical #1 center who may or may not become available.

 

How far does these players games fall when they join the sabres? It seems that coming to Buffalo sets players back. It has this year. And last ( in Boyes case ). IMO

[SwampD]

My brain hurts from this thread, but just so everyone is clear: Each of Parise, Kane and Nash is a substantially better player than anyone on the Sabres right now, and by more than a little. Vanek isn't even close to being on that level. It would be insane to pass on any of those guys in favor of a mythical #1 center who may or may not become available.

Of the three, I'd take Nash because of his size, with Kane a close second because he's won the Cup (literally, scoreing the series clinching OT goal).

[Weave]

I totally agree with the center talk and was exactly what i was saying. 10 more points a year is substantial and in 5 years age is obv a huge plus in kanes column you may not be concerned with it now but if we are putting a deal together it should def be taken into account we want CUPS not cup right?

 

What is Nash's increase in points if he plays on a team with Toews, Sharp, Seabrook, etc? Rhetorical but that's what I am getting at. Is Kane younger? Yep. Is he better? Very, very debatable, especially give this years' performance.

[shrader]

.... or Gerbe. Didn't he fill in for his High School top line Center after injury a couple of games once?

 

Oh, hai Shrader!

 

I'm pretty sure he jumped directly from mites to the USNTDP.

 

My brain hurts from this thread, but just so everyone is clear: Each of Parise, Kane and Nash is a substantially better player than anyone on the Sabres right now, and by more than a little. Vanek isn't even close to being on that level. It would be insane to pass on any of those guys in favor of a mythical #1 center who may or may not become available.

 

You're absolutely right. I'm not so sure there are any quality centers in this league anymore. There are maybe 5 out there (obvious exaggeration, so no one jump on that comment please) and they're next to impossible to land. So if that's the way it is, go out and make a mediocre center look better by surrounding him with prime talent on the wings.

[Weave]

Of the three, I'd take Nash because of his size, with Kane a close second because he's won the Cup (literally, scoreing the series clinching OT goal).

 

 

For me it would go Nash, Parise, Kane. Somewhere in my head alarm bells are going off with Kane. Some of it has to do with the very childish way he handled that cabbie incident. Some of it has to do with his stats this season.

[SwampD]

For me it would go Nash, Parise, Kane. Somewhere in my head alarm bells are going off with Kane. Some of it has to do with the very childish way he handled that cabbie incident. Some of it has to do with his stats this season.

Funny, that cabbie insident was why I put him ahead of Parise. :devil:

[Weave]

Funny, that cabbie insident was why I put him ahead of Parise. :devil:

 

:P

[FolignosJock]

Of the three, I'd take Nash because of his size, with Kane a close second because he's won the Cup (literally, scoreing the series clinching OT goal).

 

I dont think he uses his size that well. Edit: case in point stafford averages more hits per game

For me it would go Nash, Parise, Kane. Somewhere in my head alarm bells are going off with Kane. Some of it has to do with the very childish way he handled that cabbie incident. Some of it has to do with his stats this season.

 

His stats this year are better than Nashs so I dont really understand that.

What is Nash's increase in points if he plays on a team with Toews, Sharp, Seabrook, etc? Rhetorical but that's what I am getting at. Is Kane younger? Yep. Is he better? Very, very debatable, especially give this years' performance.

 

Again this years performance is better than Nash... I also dont think his numbers would be substantially different if he was on the blackhawks and kane was on columbus.

[beerme1]

Of the three, I'd take Nash because of his size, with Kane a close second because he's won the Cup (literally, scoreing the series clinching OT goal).

 

Im with you and weave on this. Nash before Kane. Nash brings much more to this Sabres team than Kane would. Size toughness etc. Kane would bring an intangible unknown that may or may not be something.

Don't matter. Neither is headed our way.

[FolignosJock]

he also has the worst plus minus in the league

 

Im with you and weave on this. Nash before Kane. Nash brings much more to this Sabres team than Kane would. Size toughness etc. Kane would bring an intangible unknown that may or may not be something.

Don't matter. Neither is headed our way.

 

 

WHAT? ok can ANYONE explain to me why this whole message board is under the impression that rick nash is tough? He hardly hits for a guy his size, height and weight dont make you tough. There is a reaon why his plus minus is the worst in the league, I get he is on a bad team but if he is so elite why is his team getting scored on so much when he is on the ice? I get he is on the ice longer than the other forwards but -22 come on. He hardly ever fights. He isnt tough! He is the epitomy of what everyone dislikes about this team and now you all want him?

 

HAhaha epit he has fought 3 times in the last 4 years... 8 times in his whole career??? Where is his heart

[apuszczalowski]

he also has the worst plus minus in the league

At one point this season, so did our prized offseason acquisition, Erhoff

 

Does it really surprise people that the best player who plays the most minutes on the Worst team in the league might lead the league in plus/minus?

[nfreeman]

How far does these players games fall when they join the sabres? It seems that coming to Buffalo sets players back. It has this year. And last ( in Boyes case ). IMO

 

I don't agree with this at all. Bottom line is that there is no relevant example, because no elite player has ever joined the Sabres mid-career since DR and LR has been here. Ehrhoff and Leino are good players (and yes, I'm including Leino in that statement), but they aren't close to being at the Kane/Nash/Parise level. And while Leino certainly hasn't delivered what we were hoping for this year, Ehrhoff has been pretty good. And Boyes is several levels below Leino and Ehrhoff. He was in a career free fall for 2 seasons before joining the Sabres.

 

Moreover, I'm not really sure what your point is. Are you saying that there is no point in pursuing elite players because they will lose their mojo when they get here?

 

I dont think he uses his size that well. Edit: case in point stafford averages more hits per game

 

His stats this year are better than Nashs so I dont really understand that.

 

Again this years performance is better than Nash... I also dont think his numbers would be substantially different if he was on the blackhawks and kane was on columbus.

 

Don't be a slave to the stats, and for God's sake don't use Stafford in the same sentence as Nash. There's a reason Nash was chosen as Crosby's winger on the top line of one of the best hockey teams of all time.

 

I'd be thrilled if the Sabres got Kane (although I too am worried about the immature jerk factor), but Nash is better.

[Bmwolf21]

he also has the worst plus minus in the league

 

 

 

 

WHAT? ok can ANYONE explain to me why this whole message board is under the impression that rick nash is tough? He hardly hits for a guy his size, height and weight dont make you tough. There is a reaon why his plus minus is the worst in the league, I get he is on a bad team but if he is so elite why is his team getting scored on so much when he is on the ice? I get he is on the ice longer than the other forwards but -22 come on. He isnt tough! He is the epitomy of what everyone dislikes about this team and now you all want him?

 

Tough isn't just fighting.

 

The reason why his +/- is so bad is the horrible team and horrible goaltending. Look at the team's stats - there are exactly 2 CBJ's who are on the plus side, and four that are even (two of which have played a combined six games). Everyone else is a minus. There are 10 Jackets with double-digit minus ratings.

 

That franchise is an utter, stinking mess.

[TrueBlueGED]

In a vacuum I'd take Parise, Nash, Kane in that order. Parise has the best two-way game of the bunch and has every bit of the offensive talent as the other two. However, we don't live in a vacuum, and as such I put a pretty high value on age of the player. Forwards have a different prime than goaltenders or defensemen. In a way they're like running backs, once they get so many miles on them they lose their explosion and they just aren't the same. That doesn't mean they fall off a cliff, but the peak years are in the mid 20s. Ovechkin is only 26 (and better than any of the players being discussed here), but we may have already seen the best he has to offer. One down year happens, but two in a row? Lecavalier can't sniff being the player he used to be four years ago, and he's only 31. Thornton's goal scoring is way down from when he is younger, but being such a slick passer he's able to compensate for it with playmaking (not exactly what you'd want in a highly paid winger though). I'll say it again: the only player since the lockout to score 20 goals and 60 points (not exactly setting the world on fire numbers) every year between the ages of 28-33 is Iginla. There's always exceptions (Selanne immediately comes to mind) and maybe Vanek and Nash can continue the same goal scoring into their 30s (it certainly helps Nash that he doesn't have any playoff miles on him).

[Weave]

he also has the worst plus minus in the league

 

WHAT? ok can ANYONE explain to me why this whole message board is under the impression that rick nash is tough? He hardly hits for a guy his size, height and weight dont make you tough. There is a reaon why his plus minus is the worst in the league, I get he is on a bad team but if he is so elite why is his team getting scored on so much when he is on the ice? I get he is on the ice longer than the other forwards but -22 come on. He hardly ever fights. He isnt tough! He is the epitomy of what everyone dislikes about this team and now you all want him?

 

I don't think he is particularly tough, but he is big and even if he is not a big hitter he uses his size very well to get himself positioned. He is alot harder to move off the puck than a guy like Kane as well. Given our lack of size on the roster already and the generally soft nature of the team, I think size is something that needs to be considered with any new player coming in.

 

As for the plus/minus stuff, it's worth as a stand alone stats has been debated to death here on this site. Eric Staal has a putrid +/- as well, is he overrated because of it?

 

Again this years performance is better than Nash... I also dont think his numbers would be substantially different if he was on the blackhawks and kane was on columbus.

 

We differ here. I'll leave it at that.

[Iron Crotch]

"No Tyutin, Nash or Carter at Blue Jackets practice. Speculate in 3...2...1....Go"

 

Retweeted by Spector's Hockey

[TrueBlueGED]

"No Tyutin, Nash or Carter at Blue Jackets practice. Speculate in 3...2...1....Go"

 

Retweeted by Spector's Hockey

 

If I were the coach/GM of a team I'd do this just to screw with people. My team is awful, my job is not fun and I'm probably going to get fired anyway...may as well entertain myself by blowing up the blogosphere. :P

[FolignosJock]

At one point this season, so did our prized offseason acquisition, Erhoff

 

Does it really surprise people that the best player who plays the most minutes on the Worst team in the league might lead the league in plus/minus?

 

It does surprise me, he is their best player playing the most minutes... he should not have their worst plus minus... why are other teams scoring so many goals against his line??? ehrhoff was getting big minutes always against the best line of the other team in the case of a defenseman it is a little different.

[beerme1]

he also has the worst plus minus in the league

 

 

 

 

WHAT? ok can ANYONE explain to me why this whole message board is under the impression that rick nash is tough? He hardly hits for a guy his size, height and weight dont make you tough. There is a reaon why his plus minus is the worst in the league, I get he is on a bad team but if he is so elite why is his team getting scored on so much when he is on the ice? I get he is on the ice longer than the other forwards but -22 come on. He hardly ever fights. He isnt tough! He is the epitomy of what everyone dislikes about this team and now you all want him?

 

HAhaha epit he has fought 3 times in the last 4 years... 8 times in his whole career??? Where is his heart

 

I get what your saying. I also get that if you hit Kane a couple times in a game you basically can shut him down. I dont feel that way about Nash. These little guys. We just have so/too many of them. I would prefer this team to avoid small going forward.

[FolignosJock]

http://hockeyanalysi...t-is-rick-nash/

 

Interesting

 

 

"So, to summarize, yes Nash is a good offensive player who may put up better numbers playing with better offensive players but he is probably not an elite offensive forward. Also, he isn’t a great defensive forward so offense really is what you get him for. If I were Columbus I would be willing to trade him if I can get a quality NHL ready player capable of playing in their top 6 forwards, a top tier prospect and a first round pick. If I were other teams, I would be very wary of over paying because he is not an elite player but he is paid like one ($7.8M cap hit for 6 more seasons)."

[Iron Crotch]

Since we're a bottom-5 NHL team, I don't see how any of our players can be considered "untouchable." So I'll play along with the rumors and say that I'd love to see Miller + Roy ($10.25 mil) sent to Chicago for Kane + Crawford ($8.97 mil). Then I'd love to see Myers + Drew + ?picks/prospects? sent to Columbus for Nash. Then we'd have Vanek & Pommer as second line wingers, Nash & Kane and first line wingers, Ville & Gerbe and third line wingers. Of course, we'd be totally devoid of centers still. And, I'm probably ignoring which guys play on the left wing and which on the right. And, Nash doesn't want to come here. But, what they hell... it is my dream scenario and I'm sticking to it!