Lindy Ruff

[X. Benedict]

And here is the problem...I do not view it as a lighter moment in coaching. I view Ruff's behavior in that video borderline predatory. It's clear many don't, but for him to use Adam as an example like that and invade his personal space when it wasn't hockey relevant.....that to me looks like weakness from Ruff at best, and picking on weak prey at worst.

 

Adam is clearly the tackle dummy....did you see the last 10 seconds of the video? The Assistant Coaches were reinforcing the info for Kassian. I've seen coaches do this hundreds of times. They demonstrate faults on the ones who have it mastered. There is no personal space on the ice.

 

 

Go play paddy-cake with Kassian if that's how Ruff wants to go. I'd like to see Ruff pull that stick game with Drury. He wouldn't have.

 

Drury is 3 light years past D-camp.

 

As over-the-top as my little comparison may have been, some of the EXACT same psychological traits were displayed in my opinion.

 

I've had family work at at one of Herb Brooks camps. There was a guy that wouldn't hesitate to humiliate. Lindy in my opinion is doing nothing more than teaching. (and clowning around a bit).

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Seriously, have you ever played competitive (contact) sports? This video is tame.

 

We can debate coaching "toughness" in other sports all day.

 

This isn't high school varsity or ECC football where guys need to be wrangled under control.

 

Guys like Bobby Knight have a rep and you know what the deal is when you play for him.

 

This is professional hockey where you are expected to act like a man. When you treat your player like that and expect submissiveness...that is what you will get if the guy is weak. Given the history of this team and coach....the types of players he develops....the types that don't....and who develops out of the system...as well as the hundreds of comments and examples of gameplay we have from the past decade plus....my speculation on that video clip is not out of line.

 

A hockey stick is a weapon. Ruff popped him in the shin at first which appeared cutesy and all. But he stopped and started 3 different times in whacking his head. He went over the top in making an example out of Adam, and again, if that was me...my INSTINCT is to grab something that is coming at my face. Just like my instinct if you spit in my face is to kill you. There are just certain fight/flight things that are pure....and there is no way Ruff would have gotten that far with me. But I also assume he wouldn't have tried that with me, be I 16, 21, or 35.

 

This is a Sabres board where potential problems should be disected. Just the fact that nobody here has said that a stick being waved in your face in a menacing manner would put you on guard either leads me to believe you are not admitting it, or it explains how this team nearly sold out the past 4 years at the box office.

 

Maybe if I hung at practice everyday I would come to the same conclusion you have. Given that Ruff probably views Adam as slow and fat, he makes a convienent whipping boy.

[korab rules]

Just took the time to watch the video - Drane, are you off your meds today? That was called a teaching moment. Out of breath from pushups? Really? That was Adam, not Torres. If anything, that video reinforces the often heard impression that Ruff is a teacher, and by the looks of it, a pretty good one.

 

I hope you managed to entertain yourself today. This entire thread is a prime example of trolling at its best. I don't know what your intention was - if it was to entertain you on a slow work day, a bet, a social experiment, or if you really are off your meds today, but my suggestion to everyone is to treat this thread like you would a troll - stop feeding it and hope it goes away.

[Eleven]

OK, I hate being "that guy", but I've gotta do it. It's Adam, not Adams. Adams is some other guy on some other team.

 

 

Whew, got that out of my system. :blush:

 

Well, Adams is some other guy on this team, anyway. Mark Adams was at the Dev Camp. But you're right; this discussion concerns Luke Adam.

 

Player name mixups make me nuts, too.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Adam is clearly the tackle dummy....did you see the last 10 seconds of the video? The Assistant Coaches were reinforcing the info for Kassian. I've seen coaches do this hundreds of times. They demonstrate faults on the ones who have it mastered. There is no personal space on the ice.

 

 

 

 

Drury is 3 light years past D-camp.

 

 

 

I've had family work at at one of Herb Brooks camps. There was a guy that wouldn't hesitate to humiliate. Lindy in my opinion is doing nothing more than teaching. (and clowning around a bit).

 

Considering Lindy is quoting Brooks in the video....interesting take.

 

 

A stick is a weapon. You protect 2 things that are personal space....your head (eyes specifically), and you balls. Those are off limits universally. You claw eyes or go for the groin in the real world....prepare to die.

 

You want to get all over a guy...fine. What would you say if Lindy used Adam as fodder for his hooking calls, and repeatedly speared him in the crotch?

 

There was no need to keep going at his head. Wave the stick in the air all willy-nilly to make a point. Stick him in the chest, hook him in the pit, put the lumber to his lumbar...fine.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Just took the time to watch the video - Drane, are you off your meds today? That was called a teaching moment. Out of breath from pushups? Really? That was Adam, not Torres. If anything, that video reinforces the often heard impression that Ruff is a teacher, and by the looks of it, a pretty good one.

 

I hope you managed to entertain yourself today. This entire thread is a prime example of trolling at it's best. I don't know what your intention was - if it was to entertain you on a slow work day, a bet, a social experiment, or if you really are off your meds today, but my suggestion to everyone is to treat this thread like you would a troll - stop feeding it and hope it goes away.

 

Yep....he's a teacher.....so is a Drill Sgt.

 

The problem is, he is acting like a Drill Sgt. to the very same MEN he has to be a General to. I have always said he fancies himself a teacher.....and I don't think that gets you cups.

 

Maybe he will be a different coach with more of a veteran group this year, but I for one have not been happy with the mental and character progression of the homegrown players on this team over the years. I don't get to see behind the scenes stuff very often, so something like that is an eye opener.

 

Trolling was not my intent here. Maybe Lukey and Ruff are all chummy. All I know is my insinct would be to grab that F'n stick by the 3rd go around at worst.

[RazielSabre]

We can debate coaching "toughness" in other sports all day.

 

This isn't high school varsity or ECC football where guys need to be wrangled under control.

 

Guys like Bobby Knight have a rep and you know what the deal is when you play for him.

 

This is professional hockey where you are expected to act like a man. When you treat your player like that and expect submissiveness...that is what you will get if the guy is weak. Given the history of this team and coach....the types of players he develops....the types that don't....and who develops out of the system...as well as the hundreds of comments and examples of gameplay we have from the past decade plus....my speculation on that video clip is not out of line.

 

A hockey stick is a weapon. Ruff popped him in the shin at first which appeared cutesy and all. But he stopped and started 3 different times in whacking his head. He went over the top in making an example out of Adam, and again, if that was me...my INSTINCT is to grab something that is coming at my face. Just like my instinct if you spit in my face is to kill you. There are just certain fight/flight things that are pure....and there is no way Ruff would have gotten that far with me. But I also assume he wouldn't have tried that with me, be I 16, 21, or 35.

 

This is a Sabres board where potential problems should be disected. Just the fact that nobody here has said that a stick being waved in your face in a menacing manner would put you on guard either leads me to believe you are not admitting it, or it explains how this team nearly sold out the past 4 years at the box office.

 

Maybe if I hung at practice everyday I would come to the same conclusion you have. Given that Ruff probably views Adam as slow and fat, he makes a convienent whipping boy.

 

It's not your idea of what you'd do in that situation that is up for discussion, it's your slandering of Ruff and how he views players based on absolutely ###### all information. You say he views Adam as slow and fat, say his a base coward who only picks on the timid/weak (which says A LOT about your opinion on Adam) yet say you have never been to practice and might well be wrong?

 

If someone I trust waved a stick in my face to prove a point I would do one thing above all else, listen to what he has to say, he knows more than me and obviously thinks I need the lesson, or am a good person to use to teach others. Either way I work with those around me. If he waved it in my face in the street however, different matter. Perspective. In that instance Adam was safe, he knew it, Ruff knew it and everyone else there knew it.

[LGR4GM]

omg i am so sorry I posted that video.

 

I go to the gym an come back and we made it to page 7 of this... wow.

 

Anyways, having played soccer forever, Ive seen and been the recipient of a coach's "teaching moment" in which you get humiliated or smacked around, if it really bugged Adam than i wouldn't want him on my team, hell Gerbe got pat on the head during a game by an opponent and I think that is a lot more degrading. Just saying, I think it was harmless and if Adam can't take that he should find a new line of work. Also most coaches only do that to players they either want to push or players they hate and I think Ruff wants to push Adam to be better, and Kassian too.

 

Also, Ruff refers to Kassian as a rookie and either in the AHL or NHL Ruff makes a good point that Kass has to remember hes the little fish now and those types of ticky tack penalties won't get called on a guy like Pommers (not that he ever takes penalties anyways) but would on a rookie just because. I like him teaching the kids and having a little fun, shows hes human.

 

Also, losers always do push-ups or a lap or something, that gives you incentive to win.

[...]

Trolling was not my intent here. Maybe Lukey and Ruff are all chummy. All I know is my insinct would be to grab that F'n stick by the 3rd go around at worst.

 

 

That's baloney. Either you're making this up to piss everyone off (and this is then the basis of your troll), or you've lived an exceptionally sheltered life and presently have the muscle mass of a worm (and therefore honestly have no idea what you're talking about).

 

In context, you would react just like the guys in the video did. Context being that you're not only a talented athlete, but also that talent has been cultivated by professionals all of your life.

 

Frankly, I really think this is a troll and I thought a while ago Scott may have been a bit hard you, but now I see that he has you nailed. :thumbdown:

[shrader]

That's baloney. Either you're making this up to piss everyone off (and this is then the basis of your troll), or you've lived an exceptionally sheltered life and presently have the muscle mass of a worm (and therefore honestly have no idea what you're talking about).

 

In context, you would react just like the guys in the video did. Context being that you're not only a talented athlete, but also that talent has been cultivated by professionals all of your life.

 

Frankly, I really think this is a troll and I thought a while ago Scott may have been a bit hard you, but now I see that he has you nailed. :thumbdown:

 

Thank god one more person has caught onto this act. Now a few more need to follow in your footsteps.

[Eleven]

Thank god one more person has caught onto this act. Now a few more need to follow in your footsteps.

 

 

What could you possibly mean?

[shrader]

What could you possibly mean?

 

My next theory is that you are actually Larry Quinn in disguise.

[Eleven]

My next theory is that you are actually Larry Quinn in disguise.

 

That, suh, means a duel, suh.

 

Delaware Avenue at noon?

[inkman]

All I know is my insinct would be to grab that F'n stick by the 3rd go around at worst.

Ghost, having a past with bullying (receiving end) and on the bad end of physical confrontations, no one on this board would act more swiftly and aggressively to the type of action you are describing. Putting myself in Adam's shoes, I may be slightly annoyed with what lindy did but he's a trusted mentor. Part of a coach player relationship is opening the door for these types of activities because everything involved is a known entity. It's not a stranger who might take your eye out, it's your coach. More to the point, he was learnin' Kassian not Adam, Luke just happened to be the guy closest to Lindy. I want to see your point but fundamentally just in opposition. You remind me so much of PA, I don't know I I should laugh or cry.

[Eleven]

omg i am so sorry I posted that video.

 

I go to the gym an come back and we made it to page 7 of this... wow.

 

Anyways, having played soccer forever, Ive seen and been the recipient of a coach's "teaching moment" in which you get humiliated or smacked around, if it really bugged Adam than i wouldn't want him on my team, hell Gerbe got pat on the head during a game by an opponent and I think that is a lot more degrading. Just saying, I think it was harmless and if Adam can't take that he should find a new line of work. Also most coaches only do that to players they either want to push or players they hate and I think Ruff wants to push Adam to be better, and Kassian too.

 

Also, Ruff refers to Kassian as a rookie and either in the AHL or NHL Ruff makes a good point that Kass has to remember hes the little fish now and those types of ticky tack penalties won't get called on a guy like Pommers (not that he ever takes penalties anyways) but would on a rookie just because. I like him teaching the kids and having a little fun, shows hes human.

 

Also, losers always do push-ups or a lap or something, that gives you incentive to win.

 

RIght on. Anyone, who has played any sport, ever.

 

You run laps. The coach grabs you by your facemask while he yells at you. You do pushups. The coach taps you on the helmet with a stick. You do windsprints. You stand in goal while teammates shoot soccer balls at you. You spar with a better boxer.

 

You sit on the bench. You sit in the press box. You have to put the scull and oars away after practice. You have to shag the balls the outfielders missed in practice. You have to clean up the water cups after the game. You're a freshman, so you're on laundry duty.

 

FFS, this was "abuse"?! It's coaching. And Drain would be bitching more if it hadn't happened.

[Eleven]

Ghost, having a past with bullying (receiving end) and on the bad end of physical confrontations, no one on this board would act more swiftly and aggressively to the type of action you are describing. Putting myself in Adam's shoes, I may be slightly annoyed with what lindy did but he's a trusted mentor. Part of a coach player relationship is opening the door for these types of activities because everything involved is a known entity. It's not a stranger who might take your eye out, it's your coach. More to the point, he was learnin' Kassian not Adam, Luke just happened to be the guy closest to Lindy. I want to see your point but fundamentally just in opposition. You remind me so much of PA, I don't know I I should laugh or cry.

 

It's almost like he was letting Adam on the "inside," you know?

[Rico4Hall12]

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: LIFE! DO YOU HEAR ME? GIVE MY CREATION... LIFE!

:death: :death: :death:

[SDS]

I used to think the most ridiculous line of argument here was the "Pegula sitting in the 3rd row of his suite is setting the wrong tone..." post.

 

Wow, was I wrong. :doh:

[inkman]

I used to think the most ridiculous line of argument here was the "Pegula sitting in the 3rd row of his suite is setting the wrong tone..." post.

 

Wow, was I wrong. :doh:

Well, lindy waving his stick in Adams face in a menacing manner could have been worse...

[shrader]

I used to think the most ridiculous line of argument here was the "Pegula sitting in the 3rd row of his suite is setting the wrong tone..." post.

 

Wow, was I wrong. :doh:

 

Was that when Pegs was questioned for drinking wine?

[SwampD]

I don't even know what to say. GoDD, I usually agree with almost everything you say about Lindy, but this is baffling. If Adam can't handle what Lindy is givin' (and I'm sure he can), then F### him.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

That's baloney. Either you're making this up to piss everyone off (and this is then the basis of your troll), or you've lived an exceptionally sheltered life and presently have the muscle mass of a worm (and therefore honestly have no idea what you're talking about).

 

In context, you would react just like the guys in the video did. Context being that you're not only a talented athlete, but also that talent has been cultivated by professionals all of your life.

 

Frankly, I really think this is a troll and I thought a while ago Scott may have been a bit hard you, but now I see that he has you nailed. :thumbdown:

 

If you knew me in person....you would know I am not trolling on this.

 

 

I hear Eleven on this....you would think I would be the last person to get ruffled over a little physical "horseplay". I understand why he would say that.

 

 

I am not a fan of authority who thinks they know all, in all cases. I have a history of making stands when those around me would say "WTF, I can't believe he is doing that." It isn't a problem with authority.....I ALWAYS treat people with respect off the bat and will respond accordingly once a pattern of exchange is established. I will however not shut up when someone is using their position to intimidate or prey on an underling. At the same time I understand that most people are selfish and I respect those who are in charge of keeping control of situations.

 

I am in a no-win situation here. I see something I think can be damning, yet because of the current environment, nobody is willing to even attempt and understand my concern. I can sit here and stoke the fire which has been lit by questioning Coach for Life, or I can accept that people need to see what they need to see.....and need to believe what they need to believe.

 

That's too bad.

 

I think this team is much more respectable than in years past and I have no reason to enjoy stewing a tense environment. Maybe through written communication and predisposition, it is tough to measure my level of concern in this case. All I can do is be honest about my reaction. I would grab that stick, and at the very least tell Ruff it isn't cool. Again, I don't think he would have the nads to do it to me in the first place in that scenario. I didn't say i was going to shove it up his ass...I said I would grab it and protect myself. Adam at least ducked. But that in itself should show Ruff's possible intent.

 

It's too bad people have to get so reved up about a single poster's opinion. I have fun riffing with people and don't mind creating a little action at times, but this is my real opinion. You may think it is bologna, and you can site plenty of other cases in coaching....but I have watched this team for almost 30 years, and Ruff as a player and coach for almost as long. Much like Darcy, I can respect someone as a person off of the ice, and not be fond of their job on the ice. I find I can get a good read on someone in a short period of time. When I have decades to go by.....I have a pretty good hunch on things. Yes, I can always be wrong...but then again, can't also Lindy?

 

I'm sorry the disdain has reached this level. It was not my intent. I will however not appologize for my views. I have been threatened and ridiculed on much more important subject matter than the Buffalo Sabres. I just let history speak for itself.

[carpandean]

I am in a no-win situation here. I see something I think can be damning, yet because of the current environment, nobody is willing to even attempt and understand my concern. I can sit here and stoke the fire which has been lit by questioning Coach for Life, or I can accept that people need to see what they need to see.....and need to believe what they need to believe.

Plenty of people have said that you may be right about Lindy overall, but try as I may (and I did), I can't see anything bad in this situation. If it's part of a pattern, then it's one that is part of a lot of other, normal patterns, too.

 

It would be like you saying that being 90 degrees last week is a sign of global warming. Personally, I see nothing wrong with a 90 degree day in July and certainly wouldn't see it as any significant proof of global warming. However, that doesn't mean that I can tell you that global warming isn't happening. Those are two different arguments.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Plenty of people have said that you may be right about Lindy overall, but try as I may (and I did), I can't see anything bad in this situation. If it's part of a pattern, then it's one that is part of a lot of other, normal patterns, too.

 

It would be like you saying that being 90 degrees last week is a sign of global warming. Personally, I see nothing wrong with a 90 degree day in July and certainly wouldn't see it as any significant proof of global warming. However, that doesn't mean that I can tell you that global warming isn't happening. Those are two different arguments.

 

Fair enough. Thank you for a well thought out and caring response.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I don't even know what to say. GoDD, I usually agree with almost everything you say about Lindy, but this is baffling. If Adam can't handle what Lindy is givin' (and I'm sure he can), then F### him.

 

The problem is, I don't think many of the young guys have handled what Lindy is givin'. When you name the leaders on this team under Ruff....Drury, Briere, Barnes, Peca, Rivet....even guys like Grier.....they are all brought in from somewhere else....and guys that fail here who are still young...Pyatt, McArthur, Paille...seem to improve after leaving.

 

That 13 seconds could have been pure horseplay. I know what my gut says....and I know how I would have reacted. It's obvious that's not how most view it.

 

If I didn't know Ruff...my spidey senses still would go off. That's what has me digging in.