Lindy Ruff

[X. Benedict]

Yep....he's a teacher.....so is a Drill Sgt.

 

The problem is, he is acting like a Drill Sgt. to the very same MEN he has to be a General to. I have always said he fancies himself a teacher.....and I don't think that gets you cups.

 

Maybe he will be a different coach with more of a veteran group this year, but I for one have not been happy with the mental and character progression of the homegrown players on this team over the years. I don't get to see behind the scenes stuff very often, so something like that is an eye opener.

 

Trolling was not my intent here. Maybe Lukey and Ruff are all chummy. All I know is my insinct would be to grab that F'n stick by the 3rd go around at worst.

 

Your instinct would get you 2 minutes in the box and lose the game for your team.

 

Hmmmmm?.....could it be that's why coaches do this type of stuff in practice? (at nearly every level)

[dEnnis the Menace]

So wait, are you suggesting that he's spiraling down the drane again, will throw another fit and then return in about a year as "Ghost of Ghost of Dwight Drane"?

 

 

 

That's quickly turning into your own version of "Gerbe can play center", isn't it?

 

Yeah, that was me last week, and someone else the week before that...

[RazielSabre]

The problem is, I don't think many of the young guys have handled what Lindy is givin'. When you name the leaders on this team under Ruff....Drury, Briere, Barnes, Peca, Rivet....even guys like Grier.....they are all brought in from somewhere else....and guys that fail here who are still young...Pyatt, McArthur, Paille...seem to improve after leaving.

 

That 13 seconds could have been pure horseplay. I know what my gut says....and I know how I would have reacted. It's obvious that's not how most view it.

 

If I didn't know Ruff...my spidey senses still would go off. That's what has me digging in.

 

Pyatt? Paille? Improve after leaving :S. Not even Macarthur has noticeably improved. We have a higher success rate with prospects than 90% of the NHL. It's great saying how you would have reacted in theory, but if you care about listening, learning and your career your wouldn't react like that. Guys who do bugger off the KHL.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Your instinct would get you 2 minutes in the box and lose the game for your team.

 

Hmmmmm?.....could it be that's why coaches do this type of stuff in practice? (at nearly every level)

 

If it was a teaching moment....the time passed, and he went back at him again. The time for a lesson was a fleeting moment...like knowing when to kiss. When you go out of that timeline, it is uncomfortable.

 

 

Spoken like a true Lindy supporter.....be a pushover and worry about not being overaggressive. That situation would not happen in a game because Ruff was being an intentional ass well beyond the scope of what would happen in a game. And if someone thought they were going to be cute, I would take their head off in the corner. It's a 60 minute game.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Pyatt? Paille? Improve after leaving :S. Not even Macarthur has noticeably improved. We have a higher success rate with prospects than 90% of the NHL. It's great saying how you would have reacted in theory, but if you care about listening, learning and your career your wouldn't react like that. Guys who do bugger off the KHL.

 

No.....I know how I would react, because I couldn't believe what I was seeing the first time I watched the video. I know how I would react because I have been in similar situations where a position on the "big club" was at stake, and the guy in charge who expected us to idolize him tried humiliation instead of true teaching. I didn't skip a beat and 5 seconds later the other 20 people in the room were either laughing, had their mouths gaped open, or were looking for the nearest door because they figured a physical fight was about to happen.

 

The guy demoted me, but he never said another word to me again. I went to him one on one after to at least let him know the situation was over, but he looked at me like I was a serial killer. We only had to work together a few more days. I was 16, he was 40.

 

You want to teach...teach. You want to feel good about yourself by going after a small fry in the name of teaching...watch out.

[X. Benedict]

If it was a teaching moment....the time passed, and he went back at him again. The time for a lesson was a fleeting moment...like knowing when to kiss. When you go out of that timeline, it is uncomfortable.

 

Spoken like a true Lindy supporter.....be a pushover and worry about not being overaggressive. That situation would not happen in a game because Ruff was being an intentional ass well beyond the scope of what would happen in a game. And if someone thought they were going to be cute, I would take their head off in the corner. It's a 60 minute game.

 

A true Lindy supporter :lol: ..yes my motives are truly biased :lol:

 

 

 

 

Here is a parable.

 

 

Once upon a time a former D1 coach pulled Eggs and Zim aside...

 

"Eggs and Zim," the coach said, "I pulled you both out of drills to talk to the two of you."

 

"First Eggs, your backhand passing is all effed-up. If you can't get this right, you'll lose ice time."

 

And the coach went on to correct Eggs for 15 minutes next to Zim, while Eggs was thinking- what the hell is coach doing? My backhand passing is fine, and the whole team is looking at us.

 

Actually, Eggs was pretty confident that he had the best backhand pass and shot on the team.

 

Then the coach turned to Zim and said, "Zim, you have the same problem as Eggs. But your fix is very similar to the fix I just showed Eggy."

 

As the coach dismissed Eggs to work with Zim, he sent Eggs over to read a skill rating sheet he had written prior to the tutorial. It contained a rating with some advice.

 

It read:

 

Eggs, your backhand passing is A+. Keep it up. You are a great teammate.

 

 

Later that night, Zim approached Eggs and asked, "Hey what did coach write on your skill rating sheet?"

 

"Just some notes on my backhand," Eggs said.

 

"Yeah, mine too. Coach was being a real hard-ass on us," Zim said. "He said we should work on it this weekend together until we get it right."

 

And they did.

[That Aud Smell]

Woah. This thread's activity finally lured me over. Just - woah.

 

@GoDD: You're clearly an intelligent guy and a keen hockey fan. I just think that there's something that is, or some things that are, unduly influencing your perception of what's shown in that video. I think we should all just move on.

 

(For example...whoever created Chet and Muffy...that is funny and an abstract category).

yeah - who coined that? i use that one all the time. it is spot on. someone step up, and lay claim!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

X...I fully understand. I said in the first few posts I understand Adam has had a cup of coffee here so Lindy could go at him to get his point across for Kassian.

 

Maybe it was all chummy-chummy, but again, that wouldn't stop my reaction. In fact it looked at first like it was friendly with a little shin tap and pointing out Adam's penalties. I just think it went over the top with a two hander over his head, and blindly flailing a stick towards his face multiple times. Yeah....in a game you need to control your stick, gotcha coach.

 

If it was a true teaching moment for Kassian and Adam was bright enough to take the whole thing in stride in real-time, then great, Adam might be the second coming. It just was a very awkward scene for me to see...given the history of this club and how many young players end up turning into system mechanical zombies under Ruff.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. But when you see Bill Clinton at a Congressional pages dinner with a box of Cohibas in tote....is it wrong to question?

 

 

I admit this is the only hockey relevant thread going on right now so we probably have an extra 5 pages. It still doesn't change my initial reaction though.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Woah. This thread's activity finally lured me over. Just - woah.

 

@GoDD: You're clearly an intelligent guy and a keen hockey fan. I just think that there's something that is, or some things that are, unduly influencing your perception of what's shown in that video. I think we should all just move on.

 

 

yeah - who coined that? i use that one all the time. it is spot on. someone step up, and lay claim!

 

I'm moving on.

 

Yes..Chet and Muffy is perfect.

[That Aud Smell]

given the history of this club and how many young players end up turning into system mechanical zombies under Ruff.

not for nothin'

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nglKEv-jEI

[X. Benedict]

X...I fully understand. I said in the first few posts I understand Adam has had a cup of coffee here so Lindy could go at him to get his point across for Kassian.

 

Maybe it was all chummy-chummy, but again, that wouldn't stop my reaction. In fact it looked at first like it was friendly with a little shin tap and pointing out Adam's penalties. I just think it went over the top with a two hander over his head, and blindly flailing a stick towards his face multiple times. Yeah....in a game you need to control your stick, gotcha coach.

 

If it was a true teaching moment for Kassian and Adam was bright enough to take the whole thing in stride in real-time, then great, Adam might be the second coming. It just was a very awkward scene for me to see...given the history of this club and how many young players end up turning into system mechanical zombies under Ruff.

 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. But when you see Bill Clinton at a Congressional pages dinner with a box of Cohibas in tote....is it wrong to question?

 

 

I admit this is the only hockey relevant thread going on right now so we probably have an extra 5 pages. It still doesn't change my initial reaction though.

Comparing teaching/coaching to a pedophilia is not a question. It is an unwarranted slander and it smacks of defamation. I think it a fault. Perhaps you don't.

 

 

My last comment. Lindy's stick weighs 10 oz. Adam is wearing a bucket with a visor.

 

Clearly Kassian was struggling with something. The clowning keeps players relaxed and attentive and prevents paralysis. It is good coaching. It is wry. I enjoyed watching it. I miss that type of interaction in competitive sports. But maybe I feel I'm getting something you are unable to.

 

Fini.

[nfreeman]

I for one have not been happy with the mental and character progression of the homegrown players on this team over the years.

The problem is, I don't think many of the young guys have handled what Lindy is givin'. When you name the leaders on this team under Ruff....Drury, Briere, Barnes, Peca, Rivet....even guys like Grier.....they are all brought in from somewhere else....and guys that fail here who are still young...Pyatt, McArthur, Paille...seem to improve after leaving.

I will defend for GoDD (while disagreeing of most of what he's said in this thread). He felt Lindy was being too physically aggressive with Adam in the video, he (GoDD) didn't like what he saw, he said so and he stuck to his guns. With such a short video snippet it's very possible (and I would say most likely) that GoDD took what he saw out of context -- but, it must be said, it's also somewhat possible that the rest of us have taken the video out of context -- i.e. it's possible that in the other 90 minutes of the practice that weren't on the video, Lindy was an absolute monster to his players and the snippet on the video was him at his friendliest. As I said, not likely, but possible. In any case, GoDD has been here long enough and added enough value to this board that he is entitled to his opinion and to stick to it. Most can disagree but the personal shots are out of bounds, IMHO.

 

Now, I will also take issue (as I have in the past) with GoDD's theory that LR retards the development of young players, and with his continuous reliance on Pyatt, Paille and MacArthur to prove his point. None of those guys has done anything more in the NHL since leaving here than he demonstrated while he was here. Mac's #s have certainly improved, but this is, IMHO, simply a function of getting top-line minutes on a terrible and desperate Leafs team. Pyatt and Paille are essentially the same players now that they were when they were in Buffalo, plus a bit of maturation and experience. Neither has taken a quantum leap.

 

Obviously the theory is not susceptible to scientific proof or disproof, because there's no way to take a young, say, Vanek and simultaneously have him be coached by Lindy on the Sabres and by XYZ other coach and see which outcome is better. What has undeniably happened, though, is that Lindy has cultivated non-lottery (and in most cases non-first-round) picks like Miller, Roy, Pommer, Gaustad, Soupy, Tallinder, McKee, Ennis, Weber, etc. into quality NHL players. What has also undeniably happened is that almost every player that has left the Sabres has done worse (or at best a push) on his new team than he did on the Sabres.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Hell yeah....I love Grebe and Weber. Weber has something you can't teach and if he shows enough skill over time, should have no problem wearing a letter. I'm just talking long term stuff here. Let's see how they develop in 2-3 years.

 

And on the Ruff video....I am sure Lindy thinks he is doing the boys a service. I don't think he is an A-hole...I like Ruff a lot off the ice. He wasn't trying to hurt Adam....but he was getting all Wyle Coyotee to shake Kassian. I didn't even pay attention to Kassian that whole time because I was too busy watching Inigo Montoya do his stuff. On the last flail that really got me, Kassian stops paying attention to the coach and looks back at Adam to make sure he is ok and is probably saying WTF. Right then Lindy does his little charge at Kassian, which I didn't even pay attention to, and Kassian instinctively gets in a possible combative posture with his arms bowed to the side. He let Lindy do his thing....but it is just a dangerous way to try and show who the alpha male is by waving that stick.

 

Kassian is going to give these guys hell. He turns away from Adyms when he is trying to tell him he lit it up the boards, he had no problem talking back to Ruff to make his point, and even after the little show he still disagreed with the idea. It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out over time. He is super talented and still green. I would hope they find a way to build mutual trust and bridle that pure power instead of trying to constantly break him to be a good soldier.

 

In hindsight, my bias against Ruff's coaching tactics may have led me to think Adam was getting more of a workover than I had first thought, but that does not excuse putting someone at risk with a sword show. If a guy like Kassian can see through it, it will be all the harder to earn Kassian's respect and will take longer for the show to get on the road. There still isn't a forward on this team to lead by example for him however. That's the scary part.

[Weave]

Woah. This thread's activity finally lured me over. Just - woah.

 

@GoDD: You're clearly an intelligent guy and a keen hockey fan. I just think that there's something that is, or some things that are, unduly influencing your perception of what's shown in that video. I think we should all just move on.

 

 

yeah - who coined that? i use that one all the time. it is spot on. someone step up, and lay claim!

 

Chet and Muffy was coined by TheChimp. He used it all the time on LGS as well.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Comparing teaching/coaching to a pedophilia is not a question. It is an unwarranted slander and it smacks of defamation. I think it a fault. Perhaps you don't.

 

 

My last comment. Lindy's stick weighs 10 oz. Adam is wearing a bucket with a visor.

 

Clearly Kassian was struggling with something. The clowning keeps players relaxed and attentive and prevents paralysis. It is good coaching. It is wry. I enjoyed watching it. I miss that type of interaction in competitive sports. But maybe I feel I'm getting something you are unable to.

 

Fini.

 

I think you have been around long enough to know my attempted comedic routes. Again....the ENTIRE premise of the joke was that it was a scene from a Ryan Miller short film on some mamby-pamby subject you could see Miller pontificating over. If anyone seriously thinks I am calling Lindy Ruff a child molestor.....then shoot me F'n now....I wanna get off this train.

 

It was passive-aggressive clowning. On one hand you are celebrating clowning and on the other hand you think I am calling Lindy Ruff a child molestor.

 

 

Too bad Bryan Berard isn't at that camp. I'm sure he would have loved to be part of it.

[shrader]

I'm moving on.

 

You sure about that?

[Weave]

Kassian is going to give these guys hell. He turns away from Adyms when he is trying to tell him he lit it up the boards, he had no problem talking back to Ruff to make his point, and even after the little show he still disagreed with the idea. It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out over time. He is super talented and still green. I would hope they find a way to build mutual trust and bridle that pure power instead of trying to constantly break him to be a good soldier.

 

This was something I noted and did NOT like to see. Even after that display with the stick by Lindy, Kassian was still insisting that he did no wrong to Adyms. And Adyms was insisting that he did do wrong. Kassian def has a stubborn streak. He'll need to get his mind opened up to correction if he's going to succeed.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Thanks nfree............and McKee is a good example of a character guy who developed here......then let go for nothing :lol:

[Weave]

I will defend for GoDD (while disagreeing of most of what he's said in this thread). He felt Lindy was being too physically aggressive with Adam in the video, he (GoDD) didn't like what he saw, he said so and he stuck to his guns. With such a short video snippet it's very possible (and I would say most likely) that GoDD took what he saw out of context -- but, it must be said, it's also somewhat possible that the rest of us have taken the video out of context -- i.e. it's possible that in the other 90 minutes of the practice that weren't on the video, Lindy was an absolute monster to his players and the snippet on the video was him at his friendliest. As I said, not likely, but possible. In any case, GoDD has been here long enough and added enough value to this board that he is entitled to his opinion and to stick to it. Most can disagree but the personal shots are out of bounds, IMHO.

 

I agree with all of this. It's why I stated my opinion about the video once and then avoided the pile on. That vid was just a small snippet in time.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This was something I noted and did NOT like to see. Even after that display with the stick by Lindy Kassian was still insisting that he did no wrong to Adyms. And Adyms was insisting that he did do wrong. Kassian def has a stubborn streak. He'll need to get his mind opened up to correction if he's going to succeed.

 

And THAT! is the crux of the whole debate.

 

When you have a horse that has all the talent in the world but is a baby and thinks he is the boss....it presents a challenge. You need to show him who is the boss, yet you still need him to trust you if you want him to perform to his ultimate capabilities. There is a very fine line there. From what I have seen over the years, it seems as if the first thing that gets done at times with the Sabres is gelding them. Kassian is worth too much at stud to do so.

 

It would be nice to have a Mike Foligno in here on this coaching staff just for a guy like Kassian. There is nobody on the team to show him how to do it right. He needs a mentor.

[nfreeman]

Thanks nfree............and McKee is a good example of a character guy who developed here......then let go for nothing :lol:

Well, letting McKee go was certainly not LR's fault, but you are absolutely right. I remember thinking at the time that even though McKee was going to get way too much $$ in FA, the Sabres still couldn't just let that much heart walk out the door. (And the same was true for Grier, although at the time I was much more concerned about McKee).

 

I will always be grateful to TG & LQ for saving the team, but their motto in making personnel decisions might as well have been "Penny wise and pound foolish since 2004."

 

And THAT! is the crux of the whole debate.

 

When you have a horse that has all the talent in the world but is a baby and thinks he is the boss....it presents a challenge. You need to show him who is the boss, yet you still need him to trust you if you want him to perform to his ultimate capabilities. There is a very fine line there. From what I have seen over the years, it seems as if the first thing that gets done at times with the Sabres is gelding them. Kassian is worth too much at stud to do so.

 

It would be nice to have a Mike Foligno in here on this coaching staff just for a guy like Kassian. There is nobody on the team to show him how to do it right. He needs a mentor.

There's still a vacancy on the coaching staff, innit?

 

Regardless, I think Lindy knows what to do. His inability to turn Vanek into Ovechkin or TC into Datsyuk doesn't mean his first instinct will be to geld the savage beast.

 

We'll see.

[BetweenThePipes00]

And THAT! is the crux of the whole debate.

 

When you have a horse that has all the talent in the world but is a baby and thinks he is the boss....it presents a challenge. You need to show him who is the boss, yet you still need him to trust you if you want him to perform to his ultimate capabilities. There is a very fine line there. From what I have seen over the years, it seems as if the first thing that gets done at times with the Sabres is gelding them. Kassian is worth too much at stud to do so.

 

It would be nice to have a Mike Foligno in here on this coaching staff just for a guy like Kassian. There is nobody on the team to show him how to do it right. He needs a mentor.

 

If THAT was the crux of the whole debate, I wish we could have gotten to it without seven pages of "concern" for poor Luke Adam's well-being and potential loss of eyesight combined with what you would have done in that situation to show the coach you wouldn't be pushed around. Just sayin', the residual effects on Kassian's development from all this seemed far down your list of complaints.

 

Besides, Kassian was trying to get cute and make a skill play with one hand when he would have been better off using his best attributes and going through the guy and taking the puck. I would think someone making this point to him would appeal to you, at least in the case of Kevyn Adams since he was not putting anyone's eyesight at risk while doing it. Just because he is talented doesn't mean they have to coddle him and let him do it his way.

[Eleven]

If THAT was the crux of the whole debate, I wish we could have gotten to it without seven pages of "concern" for poor Luke Adam's well-being and potential loss of eyesight combined with what you would have done in that situation to show the coach you wouldn't be pushed around. Just sayin', the residual effects on Kassian's development from all this seemed far down your list of complaints.

 

Besides, Kassian was trying to get cute and make a skill play with one hand when he would have been better off using his best attributes and going through the guy and taking the puck. I would think someone making this point to him would appeal to you, at least in the case of Kevyn Adams since he was not putting anyone's eyesight at risk while doing it. Just because he is talented doesn't mean they have to coddle him and let him do it his way.

 

 

The debate keeps moving. The latest was letting Jay McKee go for nothing.

 

The crux of the debate is that Drain is looking for something to complain about.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

The debate keeps moving. The latest was letting Jay McKee go for nothing.

 

The crux of the debate is that Drain is looking for something to complain about.

 

Did you want me to put 14 smileys after the Mckee comment?

 

So sorry for bringing a little booze to your tea party. Is today hat day? I love parading my favorite hats at the table with the ladyfolk.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

If THAT was the crux of the whole debate, I wish we could have gotten to it without seven pages of "concern" for poor Luke Adam's well-being and potential loss of eyesight combined with what you would have done in that situation to show the coach you wouldn't be pushed around. Just sayin', the residual effects on Kassian's development from all this seemed far down your list of complaints.

 

Besides, Kassian was trying to get cute and make a skill play with one hand when he would have been better off using his best attributes and going through the guy and taking the puck. I would think someone making this point to him would appeal to you, at least in the case of Kevyn Adams since he was not putting anyone's eyesight at risk while doing it. Just because he is talented doesn't mean they have to coddle him and let him do it his way.

 

The entire focus is Lindy's development of young players....or should I say the lack thereof and the methods he uses.

 

Maybe Chz can get me a day pass so I can take in an entire practice.

 

This place is going to be a real treat if the team starts out 6-10-2