Lindy Ruff

[Weave]

What would Lindy do if on the 3rd whack, Adam lifted his stick and sent it out of his hands? Because I am pretty sure that is what I would do on pure instinct if someone is blindly whacking at my eyes. Then again, Ruff probably knows who is an easy target.

 

I understand the lesson. Just interesting how "humiliation" was used to break a guy.

 

I dunno Dwight. I'm not seeing the big deal. It was an awful long time ago but I recall my football coach back in high school acting in a similar way. He couldn't do that with a guy in his mid 20's, but he wasn't dealing with guys in their mid 20's. He was dealing with 17-18 yr olds. And Kassian is 19. (not sure how old Adam is as I type this) I'm thinking those two have had coaches dealing with them that way for awhile now. And I'd be suprised, and no small amount of disappointed, if Lindy;s technique doesn;t change as the players age.

 

I know what you are getting at with the premise that Lindy "breaks" his players. I have also noted a number of players that seem to have lost their aggression after spending some time here. I'm just not really sure that what we saw in that video is anything that other coaches dealing with 18-20 yr old kids aren't doing. Doesn't mean your premise is false. I'm just not sure that this video is a great example of it. I suspect that when he breaks guys it is through more passive-aggressive means.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I think it's all about context ... sure you can say "He hit him in the head with his stick 5 times!!!" and it can sound like he is Bobby Knight choking a guy or something ... but he wasn't berating him verbally, calling him names, or challenging him in any way. I would see it Dwight's way if he was in his face yelling "You like that, Luke? How do you like it?!? Gonna do it again?!? Huh?!? Answer me, Luke! I am your FATHER!!!!" (OK I got a little carried away there ...)

[Eleven]

I think it's all about context ... sure you can say "He hit him in the head with his stick 5 times!!!" and it can sound like he is Bobby Knight choking a guy or something ... but he wasn't berating him verbally, calling him names, or challenging him in any way. I would see it Dwight's way if he was in his face yelling "You like that, Luke? How do you like it?!? Gonna do it again?!? Huh?!? Answer me, Luke! I am your FATHER!!!!" (OK I got a little carried away there ...)

 

Yeah, but are you referring to James Earl Jones in Star Wars or Denzel Washington in Remember the Titans?

[BetweenThePipes00]

Yeah, but are you referring to James Earl Jones in Star Wars or Denzel Washington in Remember the Titans?

 

Luke Skywalker was Denzel Washington's kid in Remember the Titans?!?!? You're blowing my mind here ... no way Lucas wasn't making those things up as he went along ... ;)

[shrader]

I think what we saw in that video was a lesson aimed as much at Adam as it was at Kassian and that's why Adam was targeted for those chops with the stick. I got a sense that Lindy was frustrated with Adams penalties last year and was making a point at Adams expense to make sure it didn't happen again during his second stint. I also think that Lindy was very clearly establishing that he was alpha male to the newest big dog. And did it against another big dog to show the new dog what is going to happen to him. We talk about Kassian being a little reckless and that he needs his agression focused. I think Lindy was schooling him on how to go about being agressive without incurring interference penalties. And he did it in a way that an agressive young man can appreciate. I doubt he coaches, say, Cody McCormick the same way.

 

My gut tells me that this isn't uncommon in the NHL when dealing with big, arrogant, hormone raging, young, aggressive athletes that play a nasty game for a living.

 

Or Adam just happened to be the guy standing next to Lindy as he decided to make his point. Sometimes every single word isn't the result of hours of planning by an evil genius.

[Weave]

Or Adam just happened to be the guy standing next to Lindy as he decided to make his point. Sometimes every single word isn't the result of hours of planning by an evil genius.

 

Oh, I don't think it was planned at all. But he certainly took advantage of the opportunity before him. Total improv.

[SDS]

after 14 years I would guess that Lindi...

 

C'mon man... You have to get LINDY right. He's been here forever and it is only 5 letters.

[...]

Or Adam just happened to be the guy standing next to Lindy as he decided to make his point. Sometimes every single word isn't the result of hours of planning by an evil genius.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Holy crap, humiliation; abuse; really? I'm kind of with Dark on the thread, but I guess since we have nothing else "fresh" to discuss right now, I can understand it being here. But seeing humiliation and abuse in that video is way too much projection as far as I'm concerned.

 

I suppose if you've never had some sort of physical training and/or sport coaching in your life, ever, or never played a sport with friends, then maybe I can dig where that's coming from - taking about 10 seconds of video and determining that Ruff has a vendetta against the players.

 

In sports, fellow players dog you all of the time. Coaches aren't stand-off-ish and genteel all of the time after you're 10 or 11 years old.

 

My sensei will grab me or whomever is near by all of the time and demonstrate things on us. We enjoy it, in a way being part of the demonstration is honorable. If it's interpreted as humiliating and abusive, well those guys don't stay very long. I have a feeling pro-hockey is the same way - you're not at that level if being coached and taught is offensive.

[nfreeman]

I see it totally differently

 

Players love that stuff. I worry about the ones that don't. Adam is cracking up laughing.

 

I've seen it again and again, the best coaches most often demonstrate on the best players when they are teaching. It's not because

Kassian and Adam need to hear it - they know- the rest need to hear it.

I think this is much closer to the truth than Drane's fairly hysterical interpretation.

 

I just remember watching a hungry, bright-eyed Vanek come into this league who would drive to the net or ride a d-man into the boards....and after 2 straight years in and out of the Lindy dog-house, he slowly relegated to more of the system player and lost that "oomph" he had coming out of college. We just don't ever see home-grown leaders develop on this team. Sure, hockey skills improve....but name the last homegrown guy deserving to wear a C, other than Gaustad...who also is a shell of his former fiesty self.....

 

I don't know what the video shows, and I am not in the mood to bash Ruff.

I've seen 99% of Vanek's professional games, and I don't think I've ever seen him ride a d-man into the boards.

 

Gaustad is far from a shell of his former self. He was a beast vs. the Flyers.

 

Other than Gaustad, guys who are potentially C-worthy are Myers (who, btw, had more of a snarl in season 2 than in season 1 -- so the alleged Lindy de-fanging does not seem to be evidencing itself), Weber and Gerbe. Briere was very close to homegrown and was C-worthy, and Miller would be C-worthy if he were a skater.

 

How can you drop 3 posts recycling the Lindy-as-emasculator theory in the same thread and then claim you're not in the mood to bash him?

 

I think what we saw in that video was a lesson aimed as much at Adam as it was at Kassian and that's why Adam was targeted for those chops with the stick. I got a sense that Lindy was frustrated with Adams penalties last year and was making a point at Adams expense to make sure it didn't happen again during his second stint. I also think that Lindy was very clearly establishing that he was alpha male to the newest big dog. And did it against another big dog to show the new dog what is going to happen to him. We talk about Kassian being a little reckless and that he needs his agression focused. I think Lindy was schooling him on how to go about being agressive without incurring interference penalties. And he did it in a way that an agressive young man can appreciate. I doubt he coaches, say, Cody McCormick the same way.

 

My gut tells me that this isn't uncommon in the NHL when dealing with big, arrogant, hormone raging, young, aggressive athletes that play a nasty game for a living.

Good call.

[carpandean]

Sizzle covered it for me. Sorry, GoDD, I think you're trying too hard to see something that isn't there. Yeah, he was breathing hard, but throughout it, you see him laugh, too. That was a pretty lighthearted demonstration compared to a lot of practices that I've been in.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

I think what we saw in that video was a lesson aimed as much at Adam as it was at Kassian and that's why Adam was targeted for those chops with the stick. I got a sense that Lindy was frustrated with Adams penalties last year and was making a point at Adams expense to make sure it didn't happen again during his second stint. I also think that Lindy was very clearly establishing that he was alpha male to the newest big dog. And did it against another big dog to show the new dog what is going to happen to him. We talk about Kassian being a little reckless and that he needs his agression focused. I think Lindy was schooling him on how to go about being agressive without incurring interference penalties. And he did it in a way that an agressive young man can appreciate. I doubt he coaches, say, Cody McCormick the same way.

 

My gut tells me that this isn't uncommon in the NHL when dealing with big, arrogant, hormone raging, young, aggressive athletes that play a nasty game for a living.

couldn't agree more weave.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

C'mon man... You have to get LINDY right. He's been here forever and it is only 5 letters.

+ 5

 

one for each letter. :beer:

[shrader]

Sizzle covered it for me. Sorry, GoDD, I think you're trying too hard to see something that isn't there. Yeah, he was breathing hard, but throughout it, you see him laugh, too. That was a pretty lighthearted demonstration compared to a lot of practices that I've been in.

 

It really was an old man PA type attempt to stir up a little crap in here. Apparently it worked too.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

He swings a stick at my eyes without looking, he loses his stick. Simple as that.

 

The tradition of building Pussidome continues.

[Eleven]

Luke Skywalker was Denzel Washington's kid in Remember the Titans?!?!? You're blowing my mind here ... no way Lucas wasn't making those things up as he went along ... ;)

 

Early in the movie, soon after he's named as coach, Washington's character (don't remember the character's name, sorry) asks the character Steve Bertier (don't remember the actor's name, sorry), "who's your daddy" and doesn't relent until Bertier answers that the coach (Washington) is the daddy. In the movie, Bertier's dad already was dead.

 

That's breaking someone.

 

Tapping someone on the helmet with a stick while trying to make a point to an OHL kid? Not breaking someone. Although if someone really wants to find fault with Lindy, and tries hard enough, he might make a completely laughable case that Ruff was trying to pound Luke Adam into submission.

 

That's only for someone with an agenda, though; a normal Sabres fan sees it differently.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

He swings a stick at my eyes without looking, he loses his stick. Simple as that.

 

The tradition of building Pussidome continues.

Same old status quo :lol:

[carpandean]

He swings a stick at my eyes without looking, he loses his stick. Simple as that.

You keep saying he was swinging at his eyes. The first one hit him on the back of the head, the second on his back, and the last one, which was the closest to his eyes, Lindy flipped his wrist over and lightly bounced it off the side of his helmet (maybe a little bit of his visor.) There wasn't a single shot that was threatening his eyes. Besides, if Luke did what you say you would, he'd he in serious trouble.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Besides, if Luke did what you say you would, he'd he in serious trouble.

 

That's what happens when you take the role of a child instead of a man.

 

It's been a trend on this team.

 

 

I would send the stick out of his hands. Since it was a laugh a minute....right?

 

He whacked him 5 times...at different intervals....after berating him into pushups in front of the team.

 

Are we a bunch of NHL pros....or a Junior B team?

[BetweenThePipes00]

That's what happens when you take the role of a child instead of a man.

 

It's been a trend on this team.

 

 

I would send the stick out of his hands. Since it was a laugh a minute....right?

 

He whacked him 5 times...at different intervals....after berating him into pushups in front of the team.

 

Are we a bunch of NHL pros....or a Junior B team?

First of all, perhaps Ruff would handle you entirely differently, since your personality is obviously much more aggressive than Adam's ... some guys you pat on the ass, so guys you kick their ass, every player is different.

 

Second, your interpretation is more of an indictment on Adam than it is on Ruff, right? I mean, we saw 13 seconds ... for all we know Ruff's motives are the opposite of what you think and he has been trying to get Adam's nuts to drop for 2 years and is trying to get a rise out of him. I've seen a lot of coaches/managers do this with certain guys. I do not believe this for a second, I don't think it's either thing, I'm just sayin' ... if YOU were Ruff (or taking over for Ruff) and wanted to toughen up the "Pussidome" that is HSBC Arena in your opinion, how would you do it? Would you not challenge some of them, get in their face and such?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

First of all, perhaps Ruff would handle you entirely differently, since your personality is obviously much more aggressive than Adam's ... some guys you pat on the ass, so guys you kick their ass, every player is different.

 

Second, your interpretation is more of an indictment on Adam than it is on Ruff, right? I mean, we saw 13 seconds ... for all we know Ruff's motives are the opposite of what you think and he has been trying to get Adam's nuts to drop for 2 years and is trying to get a rise out of him. I've seen a lot of coaches/managers do this with certain guys. I do not believe this for a second, I don't think it's either thing, I'm just sayin' ... if YOU were Ruff (or taking over for Ruff) and wanted to toughen up the "Pussidome" that is HSBC Arena in your opinion, how would you do it? Would you not challenge some of them, get in their face and such?

 

Again....I said it was a short clip, I don't watch them practice....I have no clue what was going on in their minds.

 

Maybe Ruff wanted Adam to whack it out...I don't know. Maybe Lindy wants them scared....that makes more sense given history.

[carpandean]

He whacked him 5 times...at different intervals....after berating him into pushups in front of the team.

1) Who knows why he was doing push-ups. The video comes in while he's doing them. If you notice, when the camera pans out, Kassian looks like he's getting up from doing them, too. They were probably linemates and they may have been doing pushups because they took a penalty (Kassian, actually) or maybe because they failed to scored. For all you know, most of those guys had been doing pushup as part of the drill (e.g., if the offense scores, then the defense does pushups; if the offense doesn't score, then they do push-ups.)

 

2) He made contact four time (Luke ducked another) and the first one was a tap on the shin guard while he said "ask Luke" to Kassian. If you had any problem with that one, then I give up.

 

Again, you may be right about Ruff in general, but if you're seeing anything bad in that video, it's because you want to find something bad, whether it's there or not.

[spndnchz]

The losing team does push ups. Whatever drill they did, they lost.

[Eleven]

What she said. Drane, start doing pushups.

[spndnchz]

As far as Lindy goes I think he's let go of the reins more than he was doing 3-4 years ago. He's got some players that will inform him of what is going on from a player perspective. The player only meeting, etc that started the past few years.

 

IMO what will show him as "good" will be finding out quickly during training camp who has chemistry with who. he's got a bunch of good to great players now. It's up to him IMO.

[shrader]

I don't care what you say chz or 11. Adam was the only one in that entire rookie camp who had to do any pushups. He did about 12 million over the course of the week.