Adams: we have an elite D corps

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

In 2006, Hank Tallinder had 43 hits, Teppo Numminen had 10.

The following year Teppo had 37 and Hank 26 (in 47 games)

Nick Lidstrom routinely put up 40-something hits a year.

Teams need physical defencemen, but idea you need to be physical to play good defence is utter fallacy.

Owen Power doesn’t need to punish anybody, he needs to use that reach, those feet and that vision to kill plays.

Hits and physicality are not the same thing.  They guys you mentioned knew how to muscle someone out of the crease or get their bodies in people’s way.  Power Ole’s people as they skate by and has no idea how to move someone out of the crease.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Hits and physicality are not the same thing.  They guys you mentioned knew how to muscle someone out of the crease or get their bodies in people’s way.  Power Ole’s people as they skate by and has no idea how to move someone out of the crease.

Was Power this bad at the defensive side of playing D as a youth and in college?  Serious question.

Wondering how much having an actual coach in his formative NHL years might've helped his development.

[GASabresIUFAN]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Was Power this bad at the defensive side of playing D as a youth and in college?  Serious question.

Wondering how much having an actual coach in his formative NHL years might've helped his development.

He was so much bigger that it didn't matter in college or lower levels.  

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He was so much bigger that it didn't matter in college or lower levels.  

So, giving him a real coach here, rather than a Wilford, would've been a good thing.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Taro T said:

So, giving him a real coach here, rather than a Wilford, would've been a good thing.

Yes certainly, but also he has to have a willingness to engage physically.  I don't mean running around and hitting people just to hit them (Clifton).  I mean challenging a forward at the blueline,  clearing the crease, using his big frame to take away time and space from opponents.  So far in his career he is unwilling to engage physically.  No amount of coaching will fix a player unwilling to do what is necessary to get better on the ice. 

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes certainly, but also he has to have a willingness to engage physically.  I don't mean running around and hitting people just to hit them (Clifton).  I mean challenging a forward at the blueline,  clearing the crease, using his big frame to take away time and space from opponents.  So far in his career he is unwilling to engage physically.  No amount of coaching will fix a player unwilling to do what is necessary to get better on the ice. 

You're never going to make Whimpy into Popeye.  But you can teach a guy how to at least not embarrass himself and eventually even become passable at that skill.

[shrader]

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He was so much bigger that it didn't matter in college or lower levels.  

Bigger and better than the other players. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

You're never going to make Whimpy into Popeye.  But you can teach a guy how to at least not embarrass himself and eventually even become passable at that skill.

It’s not turning Power into Popeye, it about Power willingness to do his job properly.  He isn’t good enough offensively to rely on offense alone like Karlsson.  He needs to become a 2 way defenseman or he’ll remain a drag on this team.

[7+6=13]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He was so much bigger that it didn't matter in college or lower levels.  

This just isn't true.  He wasn't clearing people out and engaging physically in college either.  It's exactly how he graded and was identified as his weaknesses.  He's bigger than most NHL forwards and he still has to get better defensively with positioning and using his reach, he doesn't have to get physical with a 5'10, 185 player.

No, he's not clearing out a strong NHL player with size that's willing to go in front of the net.  He may never be even average at that.  Who cares?

You're incorrectly hoping for that because he's big and you dislike almost everything about the Sabres.

It's absurd to be this upset about a 22 year old player that isn't a flop.

[LGR4GM]

I'd like to move power because he doesn't fit the teams supposed identity. I'll say it. Now he can absolutely change my mind this season, but I've watched him in college and I've watched him in Buffalo, I've seen no change in his style or engagement defensively. 

[inkman]

33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd like to move power because he doesn't fit the teams supposed identity. I'll say it. Now he can absolutely change my mind this season, but I've watched him in college and I've watched him in Buffalo, I've seen no change in his style or engagement defensively. 

It boggles my mind how some people want to keep him forever with aspirations of him being elite.  He might be. He’s also never going to be accepted by the fanbase as a whole because he plays no contact hockey.  His value may never be higher.  Move him out now for proven NHL talent that actually plays hockey the way it was intended. With any amount of physical contact at all.  

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, inkman said:

It boggles my mind how some people want to keep him forever with aspirations of him being elite.  He might be. He’s also never going to be accepted by the fanbase as a whole because he plays no contact hockey.  His value may never be higher.  Move him out now for proven NHL talent that actually plays hockey the way it was intended. With any amount of physical contact at all.  

This summer is the time to do it if you're doing it. Teams will have money and assets they might want to move. It's also another reason they should have fired Wilford, now you don't know if a new coach will get more. 

[LGR4GM]

Ftr, I'm not advocating trading Power for a 1st, prospect, and a guy... I'm not even advocating for trading him. I'm just saying he's not going to play more aggressive hockey imo so if this teams identity is physical and hard to play against, that's not him. If you're good with that, you'll be good with Power. If not, you'll want to move on. Buffalo has 2 advantages right now, they have another good lhd in Byram and headlined by Mrtka they have 6 other defensive prospects in various stages of development. 

So not advocating, more just thinking out loud. 

[Pimlach]

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

Was Power this bad at the defensive side of playing D as a youth and in college?  Serious question.

Wondering how much having an actual coach in his formative NHL years might've helped his development.

I’ve read somewhere that Power was taught to tone down the physical side in youth hockey because his size attracted a lot of penalties.   
 

Physical play is more that just hits and penalties, it’s also about leverage and position, and those things still require you to be strong and to physically engage with your opponent.  He needs to use the body (and sometimes his stick) to move people and block them out of making plays around his net.  He needs to take advantage of his size and reach.  If he ever figures this out he will become a very good player. 
 

@dudacek mentioned Talinder.  He was not a big hitter but he was still a physical player that used his size and strength for leverage.  He engaged his opponent in the way that Power should.  He also sacrificed taking a hit to get to the puck first and had the ability to shield the puck, take the hit, and still make a breakout pass so the team could transition to attack and the guy that hit him was now behind the play.  

Bill Hajt was amazing at this kind of game.  Fans complained that he didn’t hit or fight much.  Those fans probably never played.  Hajt played 13 season and over 850 regular season games and no Sabres coach or GM wanted to trade him.  They don’t have fancy stats on Bill, but he was + 340’ish for his career.  Not too bad for a 2nd pair most of his career.  

If Power wants to get stronger and engage physically he will be very good someday.  Some of it is a mentality.  
 

[pi2000]

Is Byram more physical than Power? Bryson?  Johnson?

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Is Byram more physical than Power? Bryson?  Johnson?

Significantly.  

While hits are not a perfect illustration of physicality it does help illustrate the difference in physical engagement from both players. Byram had 75 hits to Powers' 26 last season.  

[SwampD]

Hits is a meaningless stat.

It tells us nothing about how a player plays under contact.

Edited 1 hour ago by SwampD

[Wyldnwoody44]

Anything Adams says, I tend to think the literal opposite. He's such a freaking turd that I have zero faith in his words. 

We have an "elite" D corps... Ok buddy... Marty Wilford much be an "elite" coach then. 

We have an elite ability to get injured and an elite ability to alienate the fan base maybe we should add that word to Triple E.... Economical, efficient, elite... And episiotomy, aka, what half this team needs. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd like to move power because he doesn't fit the teams supposed identity. I'll say it. Now he can absolutely change my mind this season, but I've watched him in college and I've watched him in Buffalo, I've seen no change in his style or engagement defensively. 

As far as moving him, absolutely not! He might not fit the preferred profile from a stylistic sense but that doesn’t mean that he won’t be a core player for us. If he was out on the market, teams would be lining up to get him. I just don’t understand the hostility to him. (I’m not saying that you fall in that category.)

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

Is Byram more physical than Power? Bryson?  Johnson?

Yes.  I think he is. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Well the Elite D group just took another hit.  Kesselring is out week to week with his injury.

Projected D group pre-season

Dahlin Byram

Power Kesselring

Samuelsson Timmins

We are literally down 50% of the projected starters on D as Byram returns tonight.  

Tonight's D with Dahlin resting

Byram Johnson

Bryson Timmins

Komarov Mrtka

with Lyon and Georgiev in goal as UPL is also out week to week.

Correction: Mrtka is ill and Mesta will be playing in his place.  

Edited 55 minutes ago by GASabresIUFAN