Sabres Trade JJ Peterka to Utah for Defenseman Michael Kesselring and Forward Josh Doan

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

I think there is some value in saying if, If, IFFFFF, the Sabres uses that $5.5M savings to get Robertson or Marner, etc - then we could look back on the series of moves having been an overall success - and that would be more meaningful, at least to me.

By itself, still not happy with this trade. I liked JJ's game. There, I said it. It seems like some people (not necessarily you, JohnnySea) seem to think that strong 2-way forwards grow on trees. I am not even sure that brand of hockey is coached at the younger levels anymore. Even looking at the list of F's that get Selke votes, many of them are "meh" overall, but the crowd is thin.

In one of the other threads, it came up that the Sabres were 3-29 when scoring 2 or fewer goals. Solve the goalie, become an acceptably mediocre team that comfortably eeks into the playoffs. Can some of that come from better D? Sure, I guess. But without JJ, they may play MORE games scoring 2 or fewer goals, thus necessitating a proportionally stronger performance from the D and G. Classic Looney Tunes where Daffy is trying to plug the holes in the dam, but runs out of fingers (? you, the kind disney ducks have)

You didn’t accurately read my posts on the JJP trade. As a singular deal I consider it to be a good/reasonable deal for us. In a wider context with likely upcoming trade/s that deal should look even better from the vantage of ending up with a better and more balanced roster. When all is said and done it is the end product that should be the focal point when judging the transactions.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Perhaps it’s because Power already borders on elite offensively, while JJ borders on bad defensively? 

Power is a defenseman who can’t play defense.  It’s his friggin job to play at least decent defense.

Power offense is not elite enough to make up for his horrific defense.  

JJP job as a top 6 forward is to score with defense a secondary consideration.  

In Adams world apparently it’s more important for the forwards to play defense than score while D need to score and who cares if they can play defense.  

How is that working so far?  We had 3 D in the top 35 in scoring yet our goals against was one of the worst in the league and tanked our season.  

[MISabresFan]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

Everyone knows why. It’s not a mystery to anyone inside and outsize of this discredited franchise. When you dig a deep hole you have to climb out of it. There’s no magical and quick solutions. It’s about making smart decisions on a day to day basis. 

so what is the answer?

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

so what is the answer?

Whatever it is, that guy doesn't have it.

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

You didn’t accurately read my posts on the JJP trade. As a singular deal I consider it to be a good/reasonable deal for us. In a wider context with likely upcoming trade/s that deal should look even better from the vantage of ending up with a better and more balanced roster. When all is said and done it is the end product that should be the focal point when judging the transactions.

I feel like I was mostly in some sort of broad agreement with your post. I was mostly using your post as a way into the convo, tbh. That said, while we may differ on our exact feelings of the JJ trade (and admittedly, I focuses almost entirely of the effects of that one trade in the second half of my ramblings), we both feel you can't judge the trade without the context of what happens around it, ie Terry simply pocketing the $5.5M or GM Howdy Doody actually doing something useful with it. In the end for me, if the Sabres make the playoffs this year, the JJ trade is water under the bridge.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

so what is the answer?

The answer is to make better personnel decisions. The issue isn’t about a particular good or bad deal. It’s the body of work. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

I feel like I was mostly in some sort of broad agreement with your post. I was mostly using your post as a way into the convo, tbh. That said, while we may differ on our exact feelings of the JJ trade (and admittedly, I focuses almost entirely of the effects of that one trade in the second half of my ramblings), we both feel you can't judge the trade without the context of what happens around it, ie Terry simply pocketing the $5.5M or GM Howdy Doody actually doing something useful with it. In the end for me, if the Sabres make the playoffs this year, the JJ trade is water under the bridge.

We both agree that there is still a lot to do to reach the minimum of qualifying for the playoffs this season. We should get a better sense of whether the organization is on the right track after tonight.

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Power is a defenseman who can’t play defense.  It’s his friggin job to play at least decent defense.

Power offense is not elite enough to make up for his horrific defense.  

JJP job as a top 6 forward is to score with defense a secondary consideration.  

In Adams world apparently it’s more important for the forwards to play defense than score while D need to score and who cares if they can play defense.  

How is that working so far?  We had 3 D in the top 35 in scoring yet our goals against was one of the worst in the league and tanked our season.  

I wasn’t arguing with you, just offering an explanation as to why the media doesn’t seem to harp on the poorer aspect of his game. 

[Broken Ankles]

 I'm glad I had the opportunity to experience the trade while visiting family in the 716.   Loving the chance to discuss with friends and family.    I seem to align with a few on the board, including @Archie Lee - I'll need to see what Adams does with the cap space and the decision on Byram and #9OA before I make a final judgment on the offseason.  If this was just a ploy to reduce cap, then Adams is a bigger clown than I imagined.  I'll reserve judgment on the trade itself until Thanksgiving.  

 

A few quick/random thoughts - 

• The origin story of JJP's desire to leave will always be tied Adams' failures, the early years.  
• Doan is not a 4th line player.  41% of his even-strength time last year was on the third line.  He had the greatest success playing alongside 
  LAWSON CROUSE & JACK MCBAIN.  Why would he not have similar results with Benson and McLeod.

 

• JP's production in the top six will be replaced by Kulich.  He's ready to take the next step.  I can see 20+ on the second line. 
• The team is tougher than it was last week, and still needs MORE. 
  • Trade out for Mr. Glass, and bring more sandpaper and grit to the Defense.
• Can Weegar be extracted from Calgary?  
• Heard a rumor while downtown, enjoying the sounds of Sublime by Badfish:  Terry is considering selling the Sabres.   There is interest from a private equity group.  The source is not a Sabre insider but someone who is in similar social circles.

[jad1]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Interesting theory, although it seems it would have clearly involved tampering of some sort.

I would imagine prospect-loaded Utah would have rather given up the picks, so I guess in your scenario Adams would have used the threat to match as leverage in order to get what he wanted, which reports seem to indicate was very clearly Kesselring?

This type of tampering would be necessary because the trade wouldn't have gone through if Peterka didn't agree to sign with Utah. So they had to agree to terms, which look a lot like offer sheet terms, which Peterka probably preferred.

And Utah was probably willing to give up the prospects, because if they waited until July 1st, more teams could jump into the bidding war for Peterka.  So, knowing Adams preferred players over picks, they were able to shut other teams out of the Peterka derby with a trade.

[GASabresIUFAN]

46 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

I never said that. You did. Not me. Try re-reading and stop putting words in people’s mouths.
 

I’m not going to thank a player who is 23, who has been on the team for all of 3 seasons, and says he wants out before that 3rd season is up. Whatever he did do he wasn’t a contributor to a team that made the playoffs. He didn’t make a commitment to the city or the team. He whined about leaving and left before they could become a playoff team. 

Here’s the deal. In any sport, if a young player brought into the program by that team, doesn’t want to be a part of the team and try to bring a playoff winning tradition to the city and team, fine. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. See ya, ain’t gonna thank ya. 

And that’s not a defense of the management in any way. 

But here is the problem.  It's management's job to build a winning program and create a winning culture.  What has Adams and Pegula done to create that environment?  We haven't had real goaltending in 5 years.  We have acquired defensemen who can actually play defense.  To make matters worse, most of the major guys who have left have gone to bigger and better things.  Bogo, ROR, Reinhart, Montour, Eichel, and ERod have all won Cups.  Ullmark a Vezina.  Kane and even Jeff Skinner reached the Cup finals.  Players want to win and they can't do that in Buffalo with Adams in charge.

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

 I'm glad I had the opportunity to experience the trade while visiting family in the 716.   Loving the chance to discuss with friends and family.    I seem to align with a few on the board, including @Archie Lee - I'll need to see what Adams does with the cap space and the decision on Byram and #9OA before I make a final judgment on the offseason.  If this was just a ploy to reduce cap, then Adams is a bigger clown than I imagined.  I'll reserve judgment on the trade itself until Thanksgiving.  

 

A few quick/random thoughts - 

• The origin story of JJP's desire to leave will always be tied Adams' failures, the early years.  
• Doan is not a 4th line player.  41% of his even-strength time last year was on the third line.  He had the greatest success playing alongside 
  LAWSON CROUSE & JACK MCBAIN.  Why would he not have similar results with Benson and McLeod.

 

• JP's production in the top six will be replaced by Kulich.  He's ready to take the next step.  I can see 20+ on the second line. 
• The team is tougher than it was last week, and still needs MORE. 
  • Trade out for Mr. Glass, and bring more sandpaper and grit to the Defense.
• Can Weegar be extracted from Calgary?  
• Heard a rumor while downtown, enjoying the sounds of Sublime by Badfish:  Terry is considering selling the Sabres.   There is interest from a private equity group.  The source is not a Sabre insider but someone who is in similar social circles.

No thx on the sale of the team; private equity group would mean Houston Sabres

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

No thx on the sale of the team; private equity group would mean Houston Sabres

Atlanta Sabres 🙂

[thewookie1]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Atlanta Sabres 🙂

Well neither is a positive

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But here is the problem.  It's management's job to build a winning program and create a winning culture.  What has Adams and Pegula done to create that environment?  We haven't had real goaltending in 5 years.  We have acquired defensemen who can actually play defense.  To make matters worse, most of the major guys who have left have gone to bigger and better things.  Bogo, ROR, Reinhart, Montour, Eichel, and ERod have all won Cups.  Ullmark a Vezina.  Kane and even Jeff Skinner reached the Cup finals.  Players want to win and they can't do that in Buffalo with Adams in charge.

 

Would disagree that the D-men CAN'T play D.  Wtf knows whether or not they can play D?  They've been coached by Wilford (and Girardi IIRC, but primarily Wilford) the entire time most of them have been Sabres.  

Desperately wanted to see Wilford and Appert at a minimum punted into the sun this off-season.  Having some coaches that know how to teach a system would go a LONG way towards fixing the hockey problem this drinking town has.  Would that in itself fix it; most likely no; but it would make the other fixes much more likely to be successful.

[Turbo44]

11 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well neither is a positive

Hockey is pegulas first love - I don’t see him selling. His losses in hockey are easily covered by the cash cow nfl (new stadium costs aside)

[LGR4GM]

You can only sell 20% to private equity because sports leagues know that private equity would strip the franchise of anything valuable and then sell the scraps 5yrs later.

https://www.sportico.com/feature/nhl-ownership-rules-private-equity-1234784484/

 

Edited 3 hours ago by LGR4GM

[The Jokeman]

42 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

No thx on the sale of the team; private equity group would mean Houston Sabres

Or Hamilton Sabres if owners might include Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady. 

[thewookie1]

39 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Or Hamilton Sabres if owners might include Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady. 

Again, no interest; the Sabres only matter if they are in Buffalo

[MISabresFan]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

The answer is to make better personnel decisions. The issue isn’t about a particular good or bad deal. It’s the body of work. 

So a professional athlete wants to leave because of personnel decisions.  I guess if it has to have with who makes the team or not, I could understand that.