KO knew very early we didn’t have it - something was missing

[triumph_communes]

55 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

So your saying he didn't win a Vezina Trophy?  

To be benched the next year?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Kane being the replacement seems less absurd if you think about how Adams was probably, in his mind, debating whether it was worth making a move sooner to replace Quinn to finish second in the Atlantic rather than third. 

He *can’t* be so utterly nonchalant about playoffs to the extent he’d pass on a replacement (YES he could have done something) if he thought we’d be hit-miss on WC2. I just can’t believe he would be. Adams definitely thought we’d be better off keeping whatever trade asset dry in the case the injury ended up more less irrelevant to our high powered offence to use on a deadline deal for a superfluous but beneficial add

a costly mistake 

@DarthEbriate his overconfidence was his weakness 

Your word "nonchalant" is a terrific descriptive word on how KA has operated over the last few years, especially last offseason. He established a road map for rebuilding this roster relying for the most part building from within. That wasn't an unreasonable approach considering that a decision was made to do a reset. The sabotaging flaw to his strategy is he didn't do much to undergird that rebuild plan by bringing in enough players to support his new core. So, when a player like Quinn got hurt, it became a major setback that cascaded throughout the roster. This team lacked depth and balance to absorb an injury to a prime player. 

The franchise is at a point where the GM has to demonstrate urgency by bringing in a number of players that will strengthen this roster, even if it is the lower half of the roster. There is simply no excuse for this GM, who has an abundance of assets to parlay, to not make enough moves to make this roster better and more balanced. 

The gamble that KA is making is that he believes that this new youthful core that he is counting on is good enough to get over the playoff drought snide. If he doesn't add at least a few additional players to the roster, he will again be sabotaging this team and himself. My fear is if he does not do enough to upgrade the roster, the new core gets frustrated and disillusioned and want out like the old core did. 

[dudacek]

@PASabreFan I’m assuming the eyeroll you gave me is tied to “Next season win or die for Adams”?

When would you have drawn that line?

The 1st year after the tear down when the Sabres got 74 points when the hockey world expected dead last?

The 2nd year after the team improved 16 points?

In December after getting off to bad start?

In April after regressing 7 points and missing the playoffs again?

My impression is you think Adams should never have been hired in the first place, so the above is moot. But, if it’s not, what is your standard for a fair GM timeline, given what Adams started with? Legit asking.

Edited May 14 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

This was my problem with him as captain, and our lack of leadership in general. Nowhere in there is there a sense of taking responsibility for that failure. There's questions, side blame, and lots of I don't knows, but nowhere does he say he failed as captain. 

[JohnC]

18 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This was my problem with him as captain, and our lack of leadership in general. Nowhere in there is there a sense of taking responsibility for that failure. There's questions, side blame, and lots of I don't knows, but nowhere does he say he failed as captain. 

The Sabres were a flawed team from a deficiency in talent and from a construction standpoint. On top of those problems there were coaching deficiency issues. It didn't matter who the captain was and how he handled that role. It wouldn't have made much difference in altering the situation. There are a variety of leadership styles. Just because he wasn't publicly vocal doesn't mean that he wasn't a leader in the room. What I'm stressing is that Okposo recognized as did many players in the exit interviews recognized that there were serious foundational problems to this staff and team that had nothing to do with the leadership ability of their former captain. 

My recommendation is simple: Improve the roster by adding more talent to it. (It is the same recommendation that everyone else is offering.) That's the major source of this team's failure.  

[LGR4GM]

Between Adams, Granato, and Okposo,  all I got is this:

[Sabre The Cup]

11 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

It’s professional sports in the year 2024. It’s not like that anymore. It’s a business. That’s why ROR, Eichel, and Sammy wanted out. You can’t blame them. The only folks with that type of loyalty is fans. 

What happened to the heroic captain we were sold the last 3-4 years? 
 

It’s win/lead first and business second for the great ones. Like Josh Allen. 
 

Okposo is and always was a fraud. 

[FrenchConnection44]

20 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Worst captain in Sabres history.  Great dude.  Had no business leading this team.  
 

If I had to guess what I think it was - the 3 goalie situation.  Benson making the team (nothing against him just acknowledgement of how thin we are at F).  And honestly, my guess is the coach not having them ready.  But that’s also on the Captain.  


 

Wasted season - nothing made sense.  

That statement that he could see in October / November that “it just wasn’t there” - something was missing - is really what many of us saw. Which is why several of us were calling for Granato to be gone in early December. 
 

I do like Dahlin calling out the team for not showing up in camp in great condition. And that they need to this upcoming year. Several of these guys need to get a lot stronger. Probably 2/3 to 3/4 of the team could stand to add - at minimum - 10 lbs of muscle. It’s very doable with the right diet and weight training. A high school kid can do it. There is no excuse for Power not to come into camp at 228-230 (after playing at 218 lat year) given his frame. And to be quicker, faster and more dominant. Zero excuses. 

[freester]

14 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams and Granato are to blame. They did nothing, nothing. 

They resigned Okposo which was clearly a mistake. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres were a flawed team from a deficiency in talent and from a construction standpoint. On top of those problems there were coaching deficiency issues. It didn't matter who the captain was and how he handled that role. It wouldn't have made much difference in altering the situation. There are a variety of leadership styles. Just because he wasn't publicly vocal doesn't mean that he wasn't a leader in the room. What I'm stressing is that Okposo recognized as did many players in the exit interviews recognized that there were serious foundational problems to this staff and team that had nothing to do with the leadership ability of their former captain. 

My recommendation is simple: Improve the roster by adding more talent to it. (It is the same recommendation that everyone else is offering.) That's the major source of this team's failure.  

Ya ya ya, but that's not what I said. I didn't say he'd have CHANGED things, but a good captain takes responsibility publicly. If he doesn't, nobody else does either. 

[That Aud Smell]

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

My impression is you think Adams should never have been hired in the first place

Don’t many of us feel that way?

The guy was managing Harborcenter before he was installed as GM.

[That Aud Smell]

Holy hell.

I just stopped in at Adams’ wiki. 

His lack of qualifications is worse than I had recalled.

He was an assistant coach with the Sabres for less than 2 years (8/11-5/13). Then he was hired to manage Harborcenter in September 2019. Less than a year later, he was appointed as the Sabres GM (June 2020).

(I’m assuming his wiki is complete and accurate.)

Just — yowza.

[mjd1001]

With Okposo, I 'liked' him as a person and 'kinda' as a player, but he was drastically overpayed.  As far as leadership,  He's respected as a person, he knows how to treat teammates well, but that is about it.

In 2021-22 and 22-23, his play was better (on the ice) than many on here were saying (although still not worth his contract), but the last year it fell of dramatically (I'm not talking about just production, I'm talking ability to win battles, ability to keep up with the play, etc.) 

But the biggest issue with is game, that I never really thought of until this past year, is that he was given credit for being a leader, a 'vet' who knows how to play the game especially in a defensive responsible way, but I don't think that is true.  Zemgus I think is a good 4th liner, he skates hard, hes fast, he battles hard on the boards and wins those battles, he plays positionally well.... but Okposo never really was any of that.  Many said he was a good 4th liner simply because he was 'experienced' and could put in a few goals from there. but he didn't fit the role at all.

In his own end, knowing how to pick up the right guy, playing positionally, I think he was actually bad.  We tend to think as a 'veteran' he knows how to do that, but I don't think he ever learned that part of the game. When he was with the Islanders, they weren't the 'lock down' Islanders they are now, he didn't learn or play that game when he was younger there. And of course, I don't think he picked up on much of it under any coach with the Sabres.

[Night Train]

Something was missing.  

Success..

Now Adams is basically forced to do something with this roster. No player or prospect should be off limits for movement to improve this lineup. Many of our top guys had down years after they got paid.  PP stunk. Faceoff % not good. Easily intimidated by the opposition. Soft and floating many games.  

A lot is being dumped on Lindy but he needs some players in order to change things. 

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, Taro T said:

Don't recall and can't find the notes.  Thought it was Adams himself, might've been Okposo.

I recall reading about grumbling from some Sabres players when Levi came up from NCAA and was handed a job.  

[Pimlach]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:44 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Ya ya ya, but that's not what I said. I didn't say he'd have CHANGED things, but a good captain takes responsibility publicly. If he doesn't, nobody else does either. 

You heard over an over from Granato, Adams, most of the players at locker cleanout, and now Okposo - you hear them speculate on what went wrong, you hear them say that they felt it and realized it it, but no one stepped up. 

But you NEVER hear any accountability.  No one says they have to get better and hold their teammates to be better. 

Adams just wants the players to stay, "we want to be here",  and not make waves.  The players just want to be friends and have fun.  

It is still in the culture to expect to lose and to excuse it away.  

If they ever needed a trade for a Drury/Briere type its right now.  

Edited May 16 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Holy hell.

I just stopped in at Adams’ wiki. 

His lack of qualifications is worse than I had recalled.

He was an assistant coach with the Sabres for less than 2 years (8/11-5/13). Then he was hired to manage Harborcenter in September 2019. Less than a year later, he was appointed as the Sabres GM (June 2020).

(I’m assuming his wiki is complete and accurate.)

Just — yowza.

I know.  And his assistant coach job was based on being a player with a Cup.  

He managed Harbor Center but was also Terry and Kim's boy around the business side of things. 

He was assigned by the owners to help figure out what is going on within the team.  There were stories about him going on a road trip with the team, even though he was not part of Hockey Operations.  He basically provided Terry and Kim with his assessment of things under Krueger/Boterill.  

I thought Murray and Boterill had minimal qualifications, especially to take on a tank/rebuild.   

In some areas Adams has been good.   Analytics and drafting seem to be a strength. 

Acquiring NHL level professional personnel has not been one of them.  

Edited May 15 by Pimlach

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I know.  An his assistance coach job was based on being a player with a Cup.  

He managed Harbor Center but was also Terry and Kim's boy around the business side of things. 

He was assigned by the owners to help figure out what is going on within the team.  There were stories about him going on a road trip with the team, even though he was not part of Hockey Operations.  He basically provided Terry and Kim with his assessment of things under Krueger/Boterill.  

I thought Murray and Boterill had minima qualifications, especially to take on a tank/rebuild.   

In some areas Adams has been good.   Analytics and drafting seem to be a strength. 

Acquiring NHL level professional personnel has not been one of them.   ?h/e is 

This is part of why I scoff at the “Pegula is handcuffing him with spending” type stuff. Adams more less is Pegula: what qualifications did he have otherwise? He was appointed to “find out what was wrong” when (rather laughably) unqualified to do so and then charged with fixing it. His only qualification could have been utter trust from ownership and with no qualifications to inspire said trust the only thing it could have been is an agreement between the two of what they were after, Adams being lockstep with what Terry wanted: Adams put this plan in place because he believe in it. That’s up to and including the refusal to spend very much 

Edited May 15 by Thorny

[Malazan]

I'm glad to hear that KO is happy where he is now...

...the bench. Where he should have been when employed by the Sabres.

[LTS]

8 minutes ago, Malazan said:

I'm glad to hear that KO is happy where he is now...

...the bench. Where he should have been when employed by the Sabres.

It's a strange comment to make when you look at this Game 4 Recap - https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/bos-vs-fla/2024/05/12/2023030214

Pretty sure you can't play the puck from the bench, so how did he get an assist on the GWG?

Of course being on the bench in hockey means you are in the lineup, which he has been for every game this series..

Your insults just don't have the right impact when you make such egregious mistakes.

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya ya ya, but that's not what I said. I didn't say he'd have CHANGED things, but a good captain takes responsibility publicly. If he doesn't, nobody else does either. 

If you want to scapegoat someone then direct your attention to the GM who put this team together and hired the HC and kept him on longer than he should have. This roster was inadequate from a talent standpoint and from the way the team was constructed. Okposo as a player and captain was an inconsequential factor in this team's failure. It's obvious that Okposo had a low-key personality and not hard in your face challenging style of leadership. He is who he is. To expect him to be something he was not was unrealistic. 

[Weave]

46 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you want to scapegoat someone then direct your attention to the GM who put this team together and hired the HC and kept him on longer than he should have. This roster was inadequate from a talent standpoint and from the way the team was constructed. Okposo as a player and captain was an inconsequential factor in this team's failure. It's obvious that Okposo had a low-key personality and not hard in your face challenging style of leadership. He is who he is. To expect him to be something he was not was unrealistic. 

Given the makeup of the team, Okposo was as good a choice as any. Actually, he was a better choice than arguably anyone else on the roster, including Dahlin.  KA is squarely to blame not just for the failures on ice.  He is also squarely to blame for saddling Okposo with a responsibility he wasn’t well enough equipped to execute upon.  There wasn’t a single player on the team that was properly equipped to do it.

 

Common denominator of failure in this organization.  Not putting people in places where they are equipped to succeed.  Gm, coach, assistants, captain, role players.  All under qualified to do what was needed.

Edited May 15 by Weave

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, Weave said:

Given the makeup of the team, Okposo was as good a choice as any. Actually, he was a better choice than arguably anyone else on the roster, including Dahlin.  KA is squarely to blame not just for the failures on ice.  He is also squarely to blame for saddling Okposo with a responsibility he wasn’t well enough equipped to execute upon.  There wasn’t a single player on the team that was properly equipped to do it.

 

Common denominator of failure in this organization.  Not putting people in places where they are equipped to succeed.  Gm, coach, assistants, captain, role players.  All under qualified to do what was needed.

We’ve created roster environments not capable of being led 

The leaders haven’t been the issue, it’s the job being asked 

[That Aud Smell]

33 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We’ve created roster environments not capable of being led 

The leaders haven’t been the issue, it’s the job being asked 

spitting f**king fire takes of late.

[Weave]

36 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We’ve created roster environments not capable of being led 

The leaders haven’t been the issue, it’s the job being asked 

I think that fully falls under my final point that organizationally, nearly the entire chain is not properly equipped to fulfill the tasks that are required for winning.