Rasmus_ Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 This trade blows. The metrics and injury concerns on Byram should have screamed red flags. Our GM is a moron. Another lefty great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 Could you imagine time traveling from 2 years ago and see everyone this upset about trading Casey freaking Mittelstadt.? He’s the face of Sabres mediocrity. 4 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 5 minutes ago, Flashsabre said: LOL Scouching. Gets quoted all the time around here by people who follow this stuff more than I do In fairness my leeway for spending time arguing this is low because the scenario where we DO have the “highest ranked pool” means demonstrably nothing, so it’s not an avenue for much potential invigorating discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) 2 minutes ago, inkman said: Could you imagine time traveling from 2 years ago and see everyone this upset about trading Casey freaking Mittelstadt.? He’s the face of Sabres mediocrity. I'm not mad about trading Casey, I'm mad we traded him for a guy with concussion and injury concerns who has "meh" metrics. He's also yet another ***** left handed defensemen. Edited March 6 by Rasmus_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) 2 minutes ago, inkman said: Could you imagine time traveling from 2 years ago and see everyone this upset about trading Casey freaking Mittelstadt.? He’s the face of Sabres mediocrity. You should stop whining incessantly about Dahlin then, under the prism of our own argument. Casey was bad so he’s always bad. Fine Dahlin is generational whether you like it or not. That’s what people thought, right? We need to stick to it. that’s your argument Edited March 6 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Just by getting EJ out and creating a forward roster position, thus will be a net positive for us. Not saying we won the trade, but we improved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 2 minutes ago, inkman said: Could you imagine time traveling from 2 years ago and see everyone this upset about trading Casey freaking Mittelstadt.? He’s the face of Sabres mediocrity. Especially if someone mentions the deal is Mitts for Byram straight up. Ya ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 5 minutes ago, nfreeman said: My 2 cents: - I like the trade. I've never been a fan of Mitts', and although he's developed over the years from probable washout to decent NHL forward, I sure didn't want to give him $7MM x 7 years (or more), which is what I think an extension would've cost. The characterizations in this thread of Mitts as "our best forward" and "tough to play against" are insane IMHO. - Meanwhile, Byram, who turns 23 in June, has been averaging 20-22 minutes per game in the last 2 seasons for an elite NHL franchise. He's averaged 20 min per game in 27 playoff games. He's a great skater, he fights more than most of our D group and he can score a bit. - There is NFW that they trade Byram after 1 season. If he's good, they'll sign him to a long-term extension. - I understand the reflexive doubt for any move KA makes -- he's earned it with this atrocious season. But I think @pi2000 is right that this was a good and opportunistic move to sell MItts high and buy Byram low. Let's say argument's sake, that Byram stays healthy and has a great season next year. How much would it cost to retain him? 6 mill, 7? KA will also have to re-sign JJP and Quinn and has already invested some 27 million in Dahlin, Power, Clifton and Samuelsson, plus whatever he decides to pay Jokiharju to not run away as he is our only marginally competent RHD. I stand by my prediction, isf Byram plays well, we won't be able to afford to keep him and he'll be traded for other assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) Don't love it or hate it. A hockey trade, and a boom or bust kinda deal. I think you know what you get with Casey: good 2nd-line centre just entering his prime who competes and excels 5-on-5. But I'm a little surprised at the lack of knowledge on Byram: kid was the highest-ranked D in the 2019 draft and looked like a stud on the 2nd pair of a cup-winner as a 20-year-old just 2 years ago. He hasn't been at that level since and he has been injured, but this is a guy who still has the upside to be a 1st-pairing defenceman. I tell you one thing, if you had proposed this trade 2 years ago Colorado fans would have locked the thread and laughed you off the internet. Trading for Byram at this point of his career is like trading for Cozens at this point of his career: you know he's got more than he's shown this year, and not just because he's young, but because you've seen it. The question is how much more? Trading for Casey is like trading for Alex Tuch this time last year: you love what he's doing right now, but also know his value has never been higher. In my view Casey is clearly the better player at this moment in time, Byram clearly has more upside. Sell high, buy low is generally the law of good management, but that only works if you're good with your evaluations. This will be a very good test of our hockey department's skills at exactly that. Edited March 7 by dudacek 5 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Just now, Derrico said: Especially if someone mentions the deal is Mitts for Byram straight up. Ya ok. Congrats, you won the deal in the past i have some HD DVDs you might be interested in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, Thorny said: You should stop whining incessantly about Dahlin then, under the prism of our own argument. Casey was bad so he’s always bad. Fine Dahlin is generational whether you like it or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Just now, bob_sauve28 said: This. He's actually done it. In the NHL. He's 22. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 If he can return to his playoff form, we will have a Stanley Cup winning Top Pairing Defenseman to play with Dahlin for years to come. Otherwise we just dumped our finally solid Mitts for the defensive version of Tim Connelly. To me this trade tells me either or both of Jokiharju and Muel are going to be moved out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dudacek said: Don't love it or hate it. A hockey trade, and a boom or bust kinda deal. I think you know what get with Casey: good 2nd-line centre just entering his prime who competes and excels 5-on-5. But I'm a little surprised at the lack of knowledge on Byram: kid was the highest-ranked D in the 2019 draft and looked like a stud on the 2nd pair of a cup-winner as a 20-year-old just 2 years ago. He hasn't been at that level since and he has been injured, but this is a guy who still has the upside to be a 1st-pairing defenceman. I tell you one thing, if you had proposed this trade 2 years ago Colorado fans would have locked the thread and laughed you off the internet. Trading for Byrum at this point of his career is like trading for Cozens at this point of his career: you know he's got more than he's shown this year, and not just because he's young, but because you've seen it. The question is how much more? Trading for Casey is like trading for Alex Tuch this time last year: you love what he's doing right now, but also his value has never been higher. In my view Casey is clearly the better player at this moment in time, Byrum clearly has more upside. Sell high, buy low is generally the law of good management, but tht only works if you're good with your evaluations. This will be a very good test of our hockey department's player skills at exactly that. I mean, they are 2.5 years apart. If you keep Casey yes you have the better player now, and maybe Byram’s improvement gets him back to what he was. But why isn’t Casey being afforded that same likelihood? If I had to guess who was more likely to improve, I’d go with Casey, given trajectory Also I don’t really agree with the Tuch comp. Casey is younger, and also Tuch was in the midst of a career outlier season. Casey’s saw a progression and back to back 60 point seasons Edited March 6 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 12 minutes ago, Thorny said: Definitely unfair to claim negative reaction as reflexive. Plenty of data points to suggest the deal is questionable, looking purely in a vacuum As soon as I saw LHD my heart sank. It goes against principles I’ve argued against in the past. It’s worrying positionally and due to injury concerns. And relative to giving up the forward who’s HAVING the best season, if that bridges that gap for you OK -- to be clear, not all the negative reactions are purely reflexive -- but many are. 5 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said: Speaking of data points -- that is a nice one! 4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Let's say argument's sake, that Byram stays healthy and has a great season next year. How much would it cost to retain him? 6 mill, 7? KA will also have to re-sign JJP and Quinn and has already invested some 27 million in Dahlin, Power, Clifton and Samuelsson, plus whatever he decides to pay Jokiharju to not run away as he is our only marginally competent RHD. I stand by my prediction, isf Byram plays well, we won't be able to afford to keep him and he'll be traded for other assets. If Byram plays to his potential, it won't matter what Joki and Clifton do. KA will keep him, probably on a long-term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 I’m wondering how the Avs fit Mitts new contract in next season. I think he will play well for the Avs. Byram with Dahlin or Power will be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) 23 minutes ago, pi2000 said: buying low on Byram, selling high on Fortnite or getting a concussion victim who will never be the same (see Tim Connolly for example) for a player just maturing into stardom (see Sam Reinhart for example). Edited March 6 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanSlinky39 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Mitts has been, arguably, our best forward this year...maybe best player period. Sad to see him go, but good for him getting to play for a contender. Thanks, Mitts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freester Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: If he can return to his playoff form, we will have a Stanley Cup winning Top Pairing Defenseman to play with Dahlin for years to come. Otherwise we just dumped our finally solid Mitts for the defensive version of Tim Connelly. To me this trade tells me either or both of Jokiharju and Muel are going to be moved out. I think Muel gets traded to Calgary as part of package for Tkachuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, mjd1001 said: Ok, the positive point of view as others have said.... -Krebs basically takes Mitts spot. Is he as good? No, but he has taken a considerably step forward. -Byram, although ANOTHER very young D-man, might possible give this team the best "Young" top 4 D-group in the league. He is so young and still getting better. -You don't have to pay Mitts that $5m-$7m per year, hopefully Krebs can give you a lot of what Mitts did, AND a lower cost guy from Roch fills in that spot next year on the lower lines. I "Like" Mitts, but I didn't "love" his game. He has turned into a very good player but not one I want to pay a lot of money for as I don't see him as someone who can take over a game. I'm good with this move at this point, although I really, REALLY did like Mitts at center with Cozens on wing, I think this guarantees Cozens at Center, which I'm not too happy with. You all can be negative all you want because that is what most of you do best, just complain about things almost no matter what moves happen. For me, Mitts is good but he's not a game changer carrying this team on his back to win after win after win....to see a change like this, I'm happy to see what it brings. This is a solid take. I think people here overvalued Mitts. Yes he is having a great contract year, but he is not a game changer, or a strong forechecker, or an ace on face offs. I’d much rather have an established 32 year old two-way center that can win face offs on my third line and provide stability and support for the younger forwards. Hopefully this is what GMKA is looking at getting us for next season. Joker and EJ are gone next year, and Muel is in and out of the lineup so I don’t hate this, except for the concussion history. Dahlin is a LD that plays right so we basically need one more RD for next year and we have 2LDs on the 3rd pairing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Okay. Bad players win the cup every year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) Not really buying the idea here that this is a "futures" trade. Byram can and should be playing on the Sabres 2nd pairing now and for the immediate future. In a perfect world (<--please note) he is the mercurial Guy Lapointe to Power's refined Serge Savard. I expect bumps, but this is a 146-game NHL vet who has played heavy minutes in the Stanley Cup final, not an 18-year-old 17th overall pick. He'll play now and he will contribute. Pretty much every one of you wanted the Sabres to turn one of their skilled forwards into a top 4 D. That is exactly what this trade is attempting to do. it's just not the skilled forward you wanted to trade, or the type of top 4 D you envisioned. I don't disagree with the "yeah, but we don't really need a left-handed skill guy." But Adams clearly said ***** the fit, I want the skill. We'll see what happens. Edited March 6 by dudacek 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) Question: As mentioned, I can definitely see the talent with Byram. From a team building standpoint I find it confusing. But, for someone/those more confident than me in this trade ending up beneficial: Do you see the trade potentially improving the team as soon as next season? Would you argue that is likely? Or is that more best case scenario, with your likely estimation being we see net improvement further down the line? What say you? I’m open to the idea Byram could end up the better player but it literally only matters, for me, if it can happen for next season Edited March 6 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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