GDT: Lightning @ Sabres - Sat Jan 20, 2024, 12:30 pm ET MSG-B, BSSUN 📺 WGR 📻

[Spoonman]

7 hours ago, ubkev said:

Alex, that was terrible. 

Jeopardy, NICE! I have this one. 

[Spoonman]

7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Watching TB broadcast. So nice to not see that little pissant DG.

[Spoonman]

2 hours ago, jad1 said:

We're really not.  This team doesn't play the game right. They are weak in front of the net in both zones.  They don't play a 200 ft game.  They are terrible on special teams.  They are the youngest team in a league that does not reward youth; and they are getting younger.  Several of the vets brought in to add experience to the lineup are in Rochester.  They're not strong on the puck and are not hard to play against.  

This team needs a fundamental shift in its  direction.

I believe that @Scottysabres was using a comic technique called S A R C A S M. 😜 

 

[FrenchConnection44]

Two dumb turnovers was a major factor. But not enough chances. It’s crazy how few goals we have scored compared to last season. 
 

I think Granato just thinks he can throw the puck out there and tell the players, “grind. Work hard.”

We need a new coach for sure. But this also is not a defensive minded team. And we could use more shooters. Benson is going to have to gain some serious strength in his legs and arms to get some kind of shot (as well as increased speed). It’s weak relative to the NHL level. 

But still, we just seem to fly around and behave no system. On defense or attack. 

[ExWNYer]

3 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Patience, we are so close, patience.

Patients, we are so close...to becoming mental patients.

[bunomatic]

3 hours ago, jad1 said:

We're really not.  This team doesn't play the game right. They are weak in front of the net in both zones.  They don't play a 200 ft game.  They are terrible on special teams.  They are the youngest team in a league that does not reward youth; and they are getting younger.  Several of the vets brought in to add experience to the lineup are in Rochester.  They're not strong on the puck and are not hard to play against.  

This team needs a fundamental shift in its 

100%

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, Demoted said:

Yea that's funny

Glad someone got the joke 😉

1 hour ago, Spoonman said:

I believe that @Scottysabres was using a comic technique called S A R C A S M. 😜 

 

Ding Ding Ding

And we have a winner Johnny.....

🤣 

[Scottysabres]

33 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

Patients, we are so close...to becoming mental patients.

I never claimed being a Buffalo sports fan was healthy. 😀

My only regret is not purchasing the full Buffalo Sports Fan Medical Insurance policy when I punched in to this fan base 53 years ago.

Like most, I opted for the Drink Plenty of Spirits package 🤣 

[Taro T]

43 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Two dumb turnovers was a major factor. But not enough chances. It’s crazy how few goals we have scored compared to last season. 
 

I think Granato just thinks he can throw the puck out there and tell the players, “grind. Work hard.”

We need a new coach for sure. But this also is not a defensive minded team. And we could use more shooters. Benson is going to have to gain some serious strength in his legs and arms to get some kind of shot (as well as increased speed). It’s weak relative to the NHL level. 

But still, we just seem to fly around and behave no system. On defense or attack. 

They do have systems.  You can watch them do the same things over and over and over.  They look for the long breakouts to spring breakaways but they rarely actually spring the breakaway.  So a lot of their standard entry plays end up slowing the play up.  Rather than trying to drive the puck low, they curl back after getting into the zone as they're all alone hoping that teammates will drive towards the net while either getting a pass through to that guy breaking or dropping it to the D to get a screened shot through.  It works occassionally.  Like it did early in the Columbus game.  But it usually doesn't.  It usually ends up in bad passes with teammates now trying to get deep into the zone ahead of the puck with no ability to get back to backchecking in a timely manner.  

That's when they don't mess up that initial or that 2nd outlet pass.  Rather than working short give and go passes and weaving getting the other guys back on their heels, they look for the long passes that way too often don't connect.

There's a reason most teams try to break out as a unit and they also work the simple wide and drive.  These plays generate pressure in the other team's end.  They count on F2, F3, and D1 to join that rush quickly as F1 curls the puck back towards the blue line.  Why not let them drive in while the puck continues to go deep into the zone if they have to keep running that 2 F's break out of the zone early w/ 1 near the boards in center ice on their side of the red line and the other guy near the other boards outside the far blue line?

They don't draw many penalties.  If they actually challenge the D rather than curling back waiting for teammates to join them, they'll start drawing some penalties when they use their speed and size to force past defenders.  Of course, that would create other issues as the PP is absolute trash.  Without that early PP, the Sabres might've gotten the game to OT this afternoon.  We complain about a lack of movement and poor passes, but somehow even though the Sabres have the extra skater anytime there is a battle for a puck the Sabres are almost always outnumbered.  How can that continually happen?  Except when Benson is on the PP, there is a 50-50 chance that if the Sabres have the puck near the blue line that not one single Sabre will be below the hashes in the face off circles.  Are they looking to crash the net when the shot from the point (that shot never coming) rebounds off the goalie?  Are they planning on some fancy movement that they never quite get to the right moment to implement?

Like that they've tried having Thompson drift high a couple of times with Tuch and the other low F drifting to the goal line for the Loafs old cross crease pass to Tucker (who actually would find himself in one of the few spots on the ice where he couldn't miss a shot) that was effective back in the day.  But that has to be one of several options and there have to be other options available when they actually DO have some player movement within the PP.  They are far too content to pass around the perimeter hoping that a defender will get out of position, but with almost no movement other than the puck around the perimeter that defender never does go out of position.

Personally, like that Granato wants to attack.  But they have to do it so much differently than they do.

@mjd1001 keeps talking about how many fewer goals Thompson and Cozens have this year.  But, how many times last year did Thompson drive to the net with speed or with the sweeping moves that got D tied in knots - it was something we'd see multiple times every game.  This year, we might see that once every 3 games.  How many times did Cozens and Frick and Frack come down the ice and run a beautiful tic-tac-toe play after flying past the red line with one of them, often Cozens, burying it - that was another play (whether it ended in a goal or not) that we saw 2-3 times most games.  That just isn't happening this year.  Even when that line has finally had chances to be together again.  (Obviously, we couldn't see that the 1st 2-1/2 months this year, but we should be seeing it again.)  How many times did one of them steal the puck away, get knocked down, have his linemate resteal the puck away and then set the F3 up with a beautiful scoring chance last year?  Not an every game occurance, but it happened a lot.  It just doesn't seem to happen much at all this past month.

From last year's systems, how 'bout you make sure a F is ready to cover for the D-man pinching in to help with the pressure, which they didn't do often enough; and when the puck is in their own zone, don't have 2 F's cheat out of the zone before they have control of the puck so the 1st pass inside the zone isn't ALWAYS to the only F that's still in the zone.  Give the D 2 options besides turning back to his partner rather than just 1 option.

And when breaking the puck out of the zone or off a transition turnover, make sure the man with the puck has more than 1 option besides curling back towards his own goal.  Your team's asset is its speed.  Leaving only 1 option besides curling back forces them to be slow.  We get it, Tampa is tough to break the puck up ice against.  But it's even harder when you do things that help them neutralize your strengths.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, #freejame said:

@eman @PerreaultForever you both think Patrick Roy is a capable NHL head coach? 

I think he's a bit of a psycho, but I also think he does know hockey, he's really competitive, he can motivate, and with the right assistants he might just do a great job there. Add some fire to that boring shutdown team. So idk, but according to Friedman he was being considered around the league and the Isles felt they had to jump at the chance now or not get a chance. 

I think it is a gamble, BUT I personally would rather have him here than Granato.  No way would Roy accept soft hockey from them. Probably give them a beat down himself to wake them up. maybe a psycho is just what we could use. 

[OverPowerYou]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think he's a bit of a psycho, but I also think he does know hockey, he's really competitive, he can motivate, and with the right assistants he might just do a great job there. Add some fire to that boring shutdown team. So idk, but according to Friedman he was being considered around the league and the Isles felt they had to jump at the chance now or not get a chance. 

I think it is a gamble, BUT I personally would rather have him here than Granato.  No way would Roy accept soft hockey from them. Probably give them a beat down himself to wake them up. maybe a psycho is just what we could use. 

Could you imagine Tortorella or Ruff here as coaches with this group? These kids would turn into men 

[SabresVet]

 

8 hours ago, jad1 said:

Should fire Adams and hire an experienced GM first, and then let the GM hire the coach.

Pegula won't do this though, because he has an aversion to hiring experienced GMs.  And he picks the coach himself to ensure the coach reports to him.

Pegula got burned when he relied on the NHL to provide him recommended GM candidates to interview because he's never done the work to establish relationships with executives.  So, he hires JBot off the list, and then gives him resources only to see it all fail which traumatized him into only hiring someone he trusted.  Someone who had zero personnel experience besides playing in the NHL.  Man, this reminds me of the last near-decade of the Ralph owned Bills.  

But this is where we are 3 years into this current rebuild: An owner who doesn't know anyone 12 years into owning the team who hires GM's who didn't grow up in personnel who hire coaches not NHL caliber.  

At this point, either Adams isn't allowed to fire the HC or he's unwilling because he believes his plan needs more time.  I believe 5 HC's have been fired this season alone not counting CBJ and crickets in Buffalo.   

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, OverPowerYou said:

Could you imagine Tortorella or Ruff here as coaches with this group? These kids would turn into men 

I can. I said I wanted Torts and people around here called me a dinosaur living in the 80s. 

Pegula don't like strong willed experienced people so something like that will never happen until he sells the team or kicks off. 

[PASabreFan]

7 hours ago, SabresVet said:

 

Pegula got burned when he relied on the NHL to provide him recommended GM candidates to interview because he's never done the work to establish relationships with executives.  So, he hires JBot off the list, and then gives him resources only to see it all fail which traumatized him into only hiring someone he trusted.  Someone who had zero personnel experience besides playing in the NHL.  Man, this reminds me of the last near-decade of the Ralph owned Bills.  

But this is where we are 3 years into this current rebuild: An owner who doesn't know anyone 12 years into owning the team who hires GM's who didn't grow up in personnel who hire coaches not NHL caliber.  

At this point, either Adams isn't allowed to fire the HC or he's unwilling because he believes his plan needs more time.  I believe 5 HC's have been fired this season alone not counting CBJ and crickets in Buffalo.   

How long does DG have to be the coach in Buffalo before he is considered NHL caliber?

[SabreFinn]

Sad and obvious but it was a four point game they lost. They could have been just five point away from tampa. But if they do not manage to win these tight games they have nothing in play off to do.

But I believe they learn a lot, or I really hope so. Powers horribel play with empty net is one thing for example. 

Their goalscoring is very locked up, and the PP too. It is too slow. To me the biggest concern for the moment is however their sloppy play when they have control of the puck but is under preasure in own zone, they give several takeaways every game when they should make it easy and just dump it out of the zone. Disaster.

[sabremike]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

How long does DG have to be the coach in Buffalo before he is considered NHL caliber?

He could hold the job for the next quarter century and if he accomplishes absolutely nothing tangible in that span (like, you know, making the playoffs) then the correct answer is "never".

[Pimlach]

44 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

How long does DG have to be the coach in Buffalo before he is considered NHL caliber?

You must attain success at that level.   Has he?  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

18 hours ago, YoungsterJoey said:

Even Marty and Duff are happy as hell rn. Losing is expected in that building. Donny get the hell out

Welcome to our little corner of the internet.

Seeing that you are a youngster I did not send you my traditional welcoming beer thingie.

Losing may be accepted in the arena, but I don't think it is expected.  And coach is not going anywhere soon.  Maybe in the offseason, but I doubt it.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

44 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You must attain success at that level.   Has he?  

Missed the playoff by 1 point last season.  He's a coach in this league and a pretty darned good one.

Fans are frustrated.

The biggest issue this season has been the shift to focus on the defencive side of the game.  The players are transitioning from a free-wheeling offencive game and it's a slow process.  They are being taught how to play a tight game that will bring success in the playoff.

I think they did this a year too soon.  I believe if they played the style of last year the Sabres would be in the playoff at the end of this season, but likely eliminated in the first round.  Then they would have a taste of playoff hockey and see what it takes to win in the playoff.  They would be more receptive of changing their game.

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

You must attain success at that level.   Has he?  

You are not following along. He is an NHL coach and thus is NHL caliber. KA it follows hires NHL caliber coaches. Just like Terry hires experienced GMs. How long has KA been a GM. He is experienced.

This isn't hard.

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Missed the playoff by 1 point last season.  He's a coach in this league and a pretty darned good one.

Fans are frustrated.

The biggest issue this season has been the shift to focus on the defencive side of the game.  The players are transitioning from a free-wheeling offencive game and it's a slow process.  They are being taught how to play a tight game that will bring success in the playoff.

I think they did this a year too soon.  I believe if they played the style of last year the Sabres would be in the playoff at the end of this season, but likely eliminated in the first round.  Then they would have a taste of playoff hockey and see what it takes to win in the playoff.  They would be more receptive of changing their game.

But it isn't really a defensive focus IMHO, it's more of a maintain puck possession philosophy that they execute poorly.  They curl back to the blue line after getting the puck into the opponent's zone rather than challenging defenders to force the puck low.  Theoretically, that should maintain puck possession, but they make bad passes after the curl and end up losing the puck.

In the neutral zone and in their own end, they drop the puck back to a D man further back, or if they aren't pressured, they just hang stationary waiting for teammates to get further up ice presumably forcing the other team back closer to their blue line theoretically opening up space in the neutral zone to gain speed for an aggressive entry.  But they rarely actually transition that puck deep into the other team's zone with pace and bodies.

[SDS]

59 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You are not following along. He is an NHL coach and thus is NHL caliber. KA it follows hires NHL caliber coaches. Just like Terry hires experienced GMs. How long has KA been a GM. He is experienced.

This isn't hard.

How long are you going to try and be funny with this?

[TageMVP]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

You are not following along. He is an NHL coach and thus is NHL caliber. KA it follows hires NHL caliber coaches. Just like Terry hires experienced GMs. How long has KA been a GM. He is experienced.

This isn't hard.

This guy ^^ sure likes his riddles 

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

You are not following along. He is an NHL coach and thus is NHL caliber. KA it follows hires NHL caliber coaches. Just like Terry hires experienced GMs. How long has KA been a GM. He is experienced.

This isn't hard.

  If you were replying with text to speech, possible that Siri caught what Mrs. PA was saying by accident. 

[JohnC]

23 minutes ago, Taro T said:

But it isn't really a defensive focus IMHO, it's more of a maintain puck possession philosophy that they execute poorly.  They curl back to the blue line after getting the puck into the opponent's zone rather than challenging defenders to force the puck low.  Theoretically, that should maintain puck possession, but they make bad passes after the curl and end up losing the puck.

In the neutral zone and in their own end, they drop the puck back to a D man further back, or if they aren't pressured, they just hang stationary waiting for teammates to get further up ice presumably forcing the other team back closer to their blue line theoretically opening up space in the neutral zone to gain speed for an aggressive entry.  But they rarely actually transition that puck deep into the other team's zone with pace and bodies.

Your comments about the reluctance to get the puck down low is the center piece of DG's post-game comments. This tendency to instead throw the puck back to the defensemen is taking the opposite approach that what the coach wants them to do. (as you point out )You can't always shoot the puck behind the net because there are many times when carrying/passing the puck is the right thing to do to attack the offensive zone. But if the play is not there, then shoot the puck in low and chase it. The problem is that battling for the puck behind the net requires tenacity and grit. This group is more comfortable with perimeter play that requires less physical play. 

What bothered me about the post-game comments by the coach is that it was apparent that the down-low strategy was supposed to be a focus of attention. Yet, the coach's instructions weren't adequately followed. Hockey has a rapid back and forth flow to it where it is impossible strictly follow a game plan. However, when a pre-game strategy is emphasized and the players don't follow it, then there is both a coaching and player problem. The word that comes to me that fits this situation is accountability. Where is it?

Look back, in all three games we lost, I can't objectively say that we were outplayed. The margin of error between us and some of the better teams in the league is small. The difference is the attention to detail throughout the game. You have to be able to play smart and tough. We just seem incapable of keeping these two basic attributes up throughout the game. 

In this game, I thought that the Benson penalty at a critical juncture was atrocious. I'm not saying that it was a reason why we lost. It just seemed like a poor judgment and weird call. 

 https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/don-granato-postgame-vs-tb-6345267850112