After The Whistle Goes OFF On The Entire Sabres Organization

[Crusader1969]

Need to take the lead from European soccer clubs 

go to the game but stand and turn your back for 5 mins or something.  Not going while holding tickets is a big ask 

No matter what they do, with almost half the crowd cheering for the opponent , would it even be noticed ?
 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Quint said:

I don't think the owner is getting the message. As things are, the crowds who come to the home games are dead. The arena is dead. But what if there was a wholesale boycott so they'd be playing in front of No Fans? I know it would bum the players out. But the owner needs to get the message and that message is: Get out.

Pegula purchased the 4th most winning team in the history of the NHL (by point percentage). The Sabres averaged 99.9% attendance in 2010-2011.

Since then the Sabres have plummeted to 12th all time in point percentage, and in 2022 had the worst capacity percentage in the league (71%). 

Sure it would be nice if we showed up less. But the fans have sure spoken over the last 12 years. Going from one of the best to the absolute worst attendance percentage in the league should speak loudly to Pegula.

I hope he sells the team to somebody who keeps them in Buffalo for eternity. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I just listened.  Clearly, Peters wanted to vent about the organ-eye-zation and he did. 

The most informing stuff to me was their comments on the coaching staff.  They are very negative on what this staff can bring to the players and on the game day coaching.  Specifically Ellis running the power play, and the overall acceptance by the head coach as to what is happening.  

One thing that bothered me, but is certainly a reality,  was when they talked about the President's Trophy team of 06-07.  Rivet told Peters that even back  then, players did not want to go to Buffalo.   It may have been true, but to a much lesser extent than it  is now.  Any veteran that wants to win now and has a NMC is not going to agree to be traded to Buffalo, so we have to understand that Adams might have a major constraint to deal with.  

They mostly talk about the young guys not being supported and the overall softness of the team. 

They have no use for Skinner either and feel that his scoring does not overcome the rest of his game.  I tend to disagree,  I see is Skinner is one of the few feisty players and he has improved his two-way game although he does get into the lazy doldrums - the entire team does.    

Rivet wants a veteran partner for Power that will help him and teach him.  Power's soft play was a big subject.  

The fact that Benson is one of their best forwards right now was viewed as a negative reflection on the rest of them.  

The Krebs v. Aho situation was brought up by Rivet.  Krebs may not have known that Aho was going after him. He should have obliged him and beat the tar  out of him,  but Rivet stated that a player like Aho knows he is protected, while Krebs is on his own.   McCarron was gunning for Krebs on several shift, that would not be a good match up (see Cozens vs Hathaway).  

Peters says that fighting is trending up again in the NHL, not sure he is correct, however it appears that more teams are going with one big physical line that can and will engage in that part of the game.  

Overall it sounded like SabresSpace - maybe @PerreaultForever was filling in for Rivet that day?  

Dahlin was the only positive.  Highly skilled, he brings it every game.  

 

Ya, I pretty much agree with all of that. Maybe he reads my posts 🙂

 

[K-9]

If I thought Peters and Rivet had an ounce of credibility left after giving nutjob Roenick a platform to espouse his whacky conspiracy theories, perhaps I’d give them a listen. But I wouldn’t tune them in even if you paid me. 

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I haven’t listened yet. 
 

The thing that seems very different to me with this current mix of players, is that the issues seem quite fixable. Not “snap your fingers” fixable, but fixable. 

I wrote in another thread that the Sabres could be last year’s Canucks.  I look at what our healthy roster would look like next year without additions and with everyone a year older and it is a good roster that needs a couple of things.  
 

I’m very disappointed with how this season has gone thus far.  But I don’t feel the same sense of despair that I did in the last year of Botterill’s tenure or in the Krueger era.  A lot of really good pieces are still here and are very young.  As long as we can keep Dahlin, Thompson, Cozens, Power, Peterka, etc. from losing hope, I think this iteration of the team gets there. It is getting tough to hang in though.  

 

What are the couple of things? 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Agreed.  These forwards are awful, not helping out the D and in many cases making them look worse than they actually are.

Look at the 2nd (game winning goal) against Nashville last game, thePuck DOES go through Jokiharju, but in the 3-4 seconds before the goal is scored:

-Puck on far boards, Benson really doesn't do much but wave his stick at the D-man who directs the puck to the center of the ice

-Puck goes right to Cozens, I think its actually on his stick in front of the Buffalo net, but he loses it.

-about 1 second later, Cozens has the puck on his stick again in front of the Buffalo net, has it easily poked away by a Nashville player

-Goes to another Nashville player, Cozens waves his stick at him, isn't able to knock the puck away, and it eventually goes to the shooter.

When the shot is taken, both Buffalo D-mean are at least where they should be.  Benson could have impacted the puck on the boards a bit more and he didn't. Cozens had the puck on his stick 2 times and a 3rd time could have knocked it away (all within about a 2-3 second period) and failed in all 3 attempts. Peterka? kinda just gliding around a few feet inside the blue line, more stick waving.

Cozens is a skating disaster is his own zone this year, and the wingers don't do much but glide around and wave their sticks.  Just because you are a "forward" and not a "defenseman" doesn't mean when your team is playing in your own zone you can just kinda do whatever you want...but to many of these forwards it sure seems like it.

Well said. Bravo!

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

How easy would it have been for KA to build a 4th line?  He had both Girgs and KO in expiring contracts.  Could have easily let them both go and built a 4th line that would have given the team an identity they sorely miss.   
Girgs is ok but KO should have been brought back at no better than the 13th forward.   His mind is willing but the foot speed just isn't there to be a consistent forechecker. 
I've said this before but this season was lost in the offseason 

EJ is good to bring in as the 6th / 7th dman vet presence

Warning signs should have been flashing when Clifton was sent to the press box during the playoffs as a healthy scratch   He was known  as a heavy hitter but we just aren't seeing it.  all we are getting is glaring poor defensive play.  

I hate reading long posts so I'll end it by saying 

GET TO WORK ADAMS!!!
 

 

Ya, Clifton has been poor. Considering he was our biggest offseason addition, he’s been abjectly terrible 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Thorny said:

Ya, Clifton has been poor. Considering he was our biggest offseason addition, he’s been abjectly terrible 

KA failed this off-season.  Clifton's been terrible.  The decision to go with the same 3 goalies is a fail.  Bringing back the bottom half of the forward group has also been a huge problem.  

If you were an objective observer of the Sabres, which players, regardless of contract, do you believe can be part of a championship hockey team?

 

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

KA failed this off-season.  Clifton's been terrible.  The decision to go with the same 3 goalies is a fail.  Bringing back the bottom half of the forward group has also been a huge problem.  

If you were an objective observer of the Sabres, which players, regardless of contract, do you believe can be part of a championship hockey team?

 

Right now? I have no idea. I don’t even care. We have a bunch that can make up a playoff team, though. Again, that’s the frustration 

[In The Buff]

i thought Rivet & Peter's points were spot on. Perhaps hiring coaches with no nhl experience isnt the best idea.

This team is soft, all thruout the team.

Power has been all over the place. Is it him or the system, is it his lack of an experienced partner? All the above?

Skinner? Enough said.

Roster construction, the youth needs veterans, need better balance amongst the lines (we have enough Victor Olofssons)

Dahlin brings it every night & they feel bad for him.

Im halfway thru the podcast but these are all points i agree with.

[DarthEbriate]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Of our GMs we have had 

Murray - overly aggressive, lacked interpersonal skills for the team’s roster, wore blinders in terms of players he wanted to acquire

Botts - overly cautious with locking in best players, baffling trade valuations

Adams - overly cautious as a whole, likely overly receptive to ownership’s ideas

I still believe that if GMTM had been capable of human interaction, the team he was assembling would have made the playoffs. Sure, the coach probably needs to be able to tell him to move on from a couple knuckleheads, but the team's construction looks decent in hindsight with another couple decent drafts (particularly if you negate that McNabb for D-Lo/Fasching trade because you already have Foligno and Carrier). But then Botts came in and went completely anti-grit, rather than filling out the remaining roster holes. 

5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

They have no use for Skinner either and feel that his scoring does not overcome the rest of his game.  I tend to disagree,  I see is Skinner is one of the few feisty players and he has improved his two-way game although he does get into the lazy doldrums - the entire team does.    

Rivet wants a veteran partner for Power that will help him and teach him.  Power's soft play was a big subject.  

I won't listen to it (I've heard a few ATWs and don't really need too much more of their time), so thank you @Pimlach for the recap. I do want to speak to these two items above.

Yes. Power needs a Tallinder, and preferably a Tallinder with some snarl. Honestly, this could be EJ, but it means you need to be willing to play Power fewer minutes. Like 18 minutes (including his PP time). And with a D-corp as young as they have, it means your one of your other pairs needs to be the rock... which means Muel/Dahlin and Muel needs to also be a rock-solid veteran which he isn't this year.

Skinner. I said it a couple years ago now, but I still believe that Skinner is going to be gone when this team is good. Possibly in order for this team to be good. It's like when Carolina drafted Svechnikov and said... yup, Skinner's a 2-3W and now we've got Svech. Adios, Jeff! Not only is Svechnikov better, but he also is willing to get physical to provide himself space. If Skinner was Angry/Pest Skinner every game, he'd be amazing. But he only plays that way once every couple weeks. And not great on the PP or defensively, as been covered exhaustively. I think you buyout the final 2 years of his contract because Quinn/Benson/other will be taking his playing time. This doesn't address the bottom 6 issues though.

Edited December 5, 2023 by DarthEbriate

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I suspect I had an interaction with just such a potential account, claiming to "know" veteran players were upset that Levi was given a chance to start. I tried to find those posts and curiously they have been deleted. 🤔

I am Andrew Peters

[pastajoe]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I am Andrew Peters

I am Andrew Peters

[DarthEbriate]

Just now, pastajoe said:

I am Andrew Peters

Beat me to it.

[PromoTheRobot]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I am Andrew Peters

You can't be. You can form complete sentences.

Edited December 5, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Peters and Rivet are old school meatheads.   

The game is much different now than when they played.

Their power play coach take is laughable.   

Just because you never quarterbacked a power play doesn't exclude you from coaching one.

They're just looking for clicks with their over the top takes.    

Entertaining tho haha. 

I usually think the same but Rivet hit the nail squarely on the head on the podcast.  I was just able to listen to it now and he is sooooo right.  

The next 2 months - Adams needs to bring needs to make 1 significant trade by acquiring a d partner for Power and a couple of smaller moves for 3rd /4th line guys who can play and will bring in a competitive nature to the club.  
 
Moves that should be obvious to  everyone including Adams  

next season , bring in a big league coaching staff  Do what it takes to get Brind'amour signed    

 

[Scottysabres]

So, how long before Dahlin loses his love of the game here in Buffalo?

Odds are up.....

50 to 1 .......... Jan.

32 to 1 .......... Feb.

17 to 1 .......... March (pre deadline)

14 to 1 .......... March (post deadline)

10 to 1 .......... April 1st

5 to 1 .......... Last game, regular season

3 to 1 .......... pre draft

2 to 1 .......... July 1st

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

KA failed this off-season.  Clifton's been terrible.  The decision to go with the same 3 goalies is a fail.  Bringing back the bottom half of the forward group has also been a huge problem.  

If you were an objective observer of the Sabres, which players, regardless of contract, do you believe can be part of a championship hockey team?

 

Dahlin all day and night.  He needed to be captain this season but next year tattoo the C on his chest   I think he is a warrior and is their most important Player going forward 

honestly though I think there are a lot of guys that can be part of a championship team already here and more to come   BUT it's on KA to clean out the guys who shouldn't be here any longer 

 

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, Getpucksdeep said:

I want to fight you on skinner. I agree when we have possession low in opponents zone he is valuable.  The problem is everything else.  He is constantly turning the puck over with low probability passes into the heart of the D.  It's ***** every kid would be benched for in travel / high school etc.  it's why RK did him the way he did and it's why Carolina bailed on him. If I was his teammate I would hate him.  And so I assume many do.  (Ok maybe they like him as a funny guy between stalls but they know they have to win in spite of him). Just play the game the right way as they say which means you take care of the gd puck.  

The biggest knock is him coming back to play defense.  Offensive zone he is a finisher. 

And Skinner still is one of the feistier players we have, you take the bad with the good.   

What is interesting is that Peters said on his podcast that Boterill was not intending to want to re-sign Skinner after his 40 goal season, and it was Pegula that made the call.   

[Getpucksdeep]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The biggest knock is him coming back to play defense.  Offensive zone he is a finisher. 

And Skinner still is one of the feistier players we have, you take the bad with the good.   

What is interesting is that Peters said on his podcast that Boterill was not intending to want to re-sign Skinner after his 40 goal season, and it was Pegula that made the call.   

Ok but I can't put him with Tuch or whatever to compensate for not getting back.  I can't do anything personnel wise to stop the gd turnovers!  Take care of the puck.  I think want EJ to fight him tbh.  "Take the play thats there".  He screws his entire line. They are all on their heels or should be because you can count down 3...2....1 until he throws it away.  

Agree he's an ok agitator but I don't think he's respected. 0 playoffs. 0 fights. Yap yap yap. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I suspect I had an interaction with just such a potential account, claiming to "know" veteran players were upset that Levi was given a chance to start. I tried to find those posts and curiously they have been deleted. 🤔

[GASabresIUFAN]

35 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Dahlin all day and night.  He needed to be captain this season but next year tattoo the C on his chest   I think he is a warrior and is their most important Player going forward 

honestly though I think there are a lot of guys that can be part of a championship team already here and more to come   BUT it's on KA to clean out the guys who shouldn't be here any longer 

 

Dahlin certainly. He and maybe Ryan Johnson from the defense. I am not a fan of Power so far.  I don’t think he is aggressive enough or uses his size enough to his advantage.   I also think he has more offense to give.  Maybe that will come over time, but we are going to be paying him like a top 20 D next season and he isn’t even close to that caliber of player.

None of goalies.  I fully acknowledge that Levi isn’t going anywhere, but I’m wouldn’t be afraid to put a real goalie ahead of him and let him earn the net like Boston did with Ullmark.  (PS, I think Boston trades Ullmark this coming off-season.)  

At forward, I have Tuch, Mitts, Cozens, and JJP.  I haven’t seen enough of Benson or Quinn to form a full opinion.   Skinner and TNT’s lack of back checking downgrades them imho, although we don’t have a center to replace TNT if traded.  I think we can replace Skinner.

Edited December 5, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The biggest knock is him coming back to play defense.  Offensive zone he is a finisher. 

And Skinner still is one of the feistier players we have, you take the bad with the good.   

What is interesting is that Peters said on his podcast that Boterill was not intending to want to re-sign Skinner after his 40 goal season, and it was Pegula that made the call.   

He’s tolerable within 10 feet of the net.  Every place else dude is a serious net negative.  Every decision he makes is like he’s never played the sport before.  His passes are laughable.  Watch him. Please.  He’s an odd man rush waiting to happen. For the opponent.  

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, inkman said:

He’s tolerable within 10 feet of the net.  Every place else dude is a serious net negative.  Every decision he makes is like he’s never played the sport before.  His passes are laughable.  Watch him. Please.  He’s an odd man rush waiting to happen. For the opponent.  

Yes, I know. I am fully aware of his play.   It was a question of whether he is fiesty and the answer is yes, he is.   

He is a liability in a lot of cases. 

He has 343 goals and 642 pts in 957 games, and yet he is a lifetime -132.  

[K-9]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I suspect I had an interaction with just such a potential account, claiming to "know" veteran players were upset that Levi was given a chance to start. I tried to find those posts and curiously they have been deleted. 🤔

They’re still there in the Amerks game thread. The forum member making that claim is Mr. Allen.