We need to talk about Zach Benson making the team this year, 2023

[DarthEbriate]

I keep Benson as the 12/13 (not line or playing time, but rather depth and games dressed) while Savoie is out. Then, send Benson down with his orders for the year. Keep Savoie as the 12/13 until world juniors, then send him down until end of season. They are great talents with high ceilings, but this year I don’t want rookies who sit in the 3rd. Give me a Rousek who has 2 years in the Amerks system and is ready to make the jump. 

[French Collection]

Thank goodness there are more preseason games to dissect Benson’s game for KA & DG. I have only been able to watch the game highlights so I can’t judge him on most of his shifts. It sounds like he has been impressive and DG raves about his play.

I say that if he continues to play well you give him a look in the regular season. If he is contributing and putting up points it may be hard to send him back.

I think Savoie gets a conditioning stint in Rochester, maybe a few games in Buffalo and then these two go back as a package deal to the WHL. The Wild will figure out their coaching issues in that time frame too.

[...]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm saying maybe Benson isn't the helpless little boy you've decided he is. The preseason is helping to determine whether or not he has the ability to cope, just as it is for the similarly sized Connor Bedard — who everyone has pencilled into an NHL lineup — and just as it did for Keller.

I'm using the Gerbe example to point out that the risks of the game are inherent to it, and aren't necessarily a product of physical development. We could talk about the Lindros brothers or many other mammoth human beings whose careers were cut short.

We were third in GF last year, Chicago was last. The circumstances are not the same, and even so if I were a Chicago fan I would be advocating for Bedard to not be rushed into that cauldron of misery too early. The pressure on him at 18 will be immense. It's just a game and our desperation to be entertained shouldn't take precedence over the welfare of some kid's mental and physical health.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, ... said:

He's a young 18 for an NHL-er and not gifted with a massive, mature physique. He needs time to grow more.

This is the only concern holding me back. The kid is showing that he belongs. But there's a long, grueling season ahead. Could he possibly be ready for that?

Maybe they'd roster him all season and load-manage his ice time?

45 minutes ago, tom webster said:

If the Sabres are serious about this being the year, then the best players make the team regardless of status. It’s really that simple, at least for me.

I don't think it's quite that simple, though. Because he is clearly deserving of a roster spot based on his present play. And yet ... how does he project over a full season? It's a huge consideration.

38 minutes ago, dudacek said:

On the other hand, Clayton Keller is the same size as Benson is right now. When he was an even smaller teenage rookie he put up 65 points. He's survived for 6 years at that size in the NHL without significant injury.

I'm not saying Benson is ready. I am saying his play should determine that, not any bias about small players.

The fooking WHO now?

I'm showing my arse as someone who doesn't follow the league generally.

There's recent precedent for a player like Benson being on an NHL team as an 18 year old?

1 minute ago, ... said:

It's just a game and our desperation to be entertained shouldn't take precedence over the welfare of some kid's mental and physical health.

Um, what?

[That Aud Smell]

Feast your eyes.

 

[...]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Um, what?

Come on, you are not typically obtuse. The only reason to make an argument for putting Benson on this year's roster is because the person making that argument wants to be entertained.

[Weave]

I am woefully under qualified to say whether Benson sticks or not, so I won’t make a prediction.

That said, my concerns are mostly in regard to the combo of size and physical maturity that makes me fear for his safety, generally, when up against full time NHL size and speed. I would be less concerned if he were physically developed.  Maybe he is.  I’ve never seen the kid in person.  However I am also concerned for what his WHL situation might be.  Maybe he is better off here?

I would be somewhat surprised if he didn’t get a 9 game tryout.  Between that and practice with a full NHL squad, I expect there will be a very good read on his readiness for the NHL.

[French Collection]

Not related to the question of this thread but I think Benson will end up as the second most productive player in this draft, after Bedard. Many were drafted ahead of him due to being C, D or size but he has the IQ and skill to put up big numbers.

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, ... said:

Come on, you are not typically obtuse. The only reason to make an argument for putting Benson on this year's roster is because the person making that argument wants to be entertained.

You realize this argument holds for every single player in every single contact sport?

[That Aud Smell]

30 minutes ago, ... said:

Come on, you are not typically obtuse. 

I don't feel obtuse.

Edited September 27, 2023 by That Aud Smell

[tom webster]

37 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is the only concern holding me back. The kid is showing that he belongs. But there's a long, grueling season ahead. Could he possibly be ready for that?

Maybe they'd roster him all season and load-manage his ice time?

I don't think it's quite that simple, though. Because he is clearly deserving of a roster spot based on his present play. And yet ... how does he project over a full season? It's a huge consideration.

The fooking WHO now?

I'm showing my arse as someone who doesn't follow the league generally.

There's recent precedent for a player like Benson being on an NHL team as an 18 year old?

Um, what?

If he helps you win any games the first couple of months, it could be the difference between making the playoffs and not. I know some see juniors and minors as some magic development tool but I’m on record as thinking that’s on par with “old wive’s tales.”

[That Aud Smell]

31 minutes ago, ... said:

The only reason to make an argument for putting Benson on this year's roster is because the person making that argument wants to be entertained.

The reasoning here seems a bit bizarre. I think people advocating for Benson to get a hard look as a rostered player this season are doing so because they think that gives the team the best chance to win. Which would be entertaining. And I don't think people are discounting concerns for the player's well-being either.

Just now, tom webster said:

If he helps you win any games the first couple of months, it could be the difference between making the playoffs and not. I know some see juniors and minors as some magic development tool but I’m on record as thinking that’s on par with “old wive’s tales.”

I don't think those leagues are development tools at all. If anything, they inhibit development. That's why NHL teams want those players in the A, if possible. That's why NHL teams will tell a prized prospect to go back to juniors, and concentrate on strength and conditioning even to the detriment of their on-ice numbers.

[triumph_communes]

40 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Feast your eyes.

 

That active stick of his is special. It frustrates me so much how many NHL players don’t do it. Even if good players can dodge it, it keeps the pressure on and that adds up. 
 

Im sorry Skinner, put Benson with Tage and Thompson, he’s ready for 9 at a minimum. Will flourish if he can be paired with some size. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

If the Sabres are serious about this being the year, then the best players make the team regardless of status. It’s really that simple, at least for me.

Yep.  You put your best 12 F's on the ice along with the 6 best D and Levi as often as you can without burning him out by NYE.

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I think the most likely outcome is that he gets 9 games and then goes back to juniors, but there a non-negligible chance that he makes it crystal GD clear that he is, right now, one of the 12 best forwards in the organization and if so I would not be shocked if they keep him.

This too.

Didn't vote because really not sure if the answer to the 1st question is Y or N.  (The other 2 are clear yeses should he stay injury free and there's no reason to expect him not to do so.)  But with every game / scrimmage watched that he plays am expecting that 1st answer to become a Y.

This kid just has 'it.'  Much like Levi does.  And if he makes the team better than Olofsson, Rousek, Kulich, Rosen, Biron, or Jost does then how does a management that said competing for and winning the Stanley Cup is the goal justify sending him back to Juniors?  And there being cap repercussions 8 years from now rather than 9 to go with the possibility he might walk for nothing then isn't justification enough to keep him in WA.  Especially with that team's coach's status in doubt at present.

Don't see Savoie's injury being a factor in the Benson decision either.  It isn't "fair" that Matt got injured, but life isn't fair, and whether that added another opportunity for Zach or not it really can't / shouldn't get factored into the discussion of what's best for the team and the player.

And IF they keep Benson up and then he seems to be wearing down from the grind of playing against men every other day; well, send him back to WA.  It burns a year of his ELC but it doesn't do anything to his earning a year of service towards FA which is what matters more.  If he can show that he isn't a Lawrence Pilut who is an all star against tweeners and a no show against NHLers (and very highly doubt that he is a Larry), then there is no compelling reason to send him back.

[LETSTUCHINGO]

I was in attendance last night, Benson stood out. Granted neither roster was filled with NHL players as it will be in the regular season, but he looked as comfortable out there as any on his line (our top line). He meshed well with TT and Skinner. His assist to Skinner was timely and spot on, although being slight of frame, he fought hard in the boards and wasn't physically taken off the puck. He has superior hands and displayed it throughout the game. He was an absolute pest and often extended plays with his puck handling ability. With Quinn out, I can see him making the team. Although I am a huge Kulich fan, Benson looked like the superior player hands down last night. If you didn't know he was a rookie or 18, you certainly wouldn't have known it by his play!

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

The reasoning here seems a bit bizarre. I think people advocating for Benson to get a hard look as a rostered player this season are doing so because they think that gives the team the best chance to win. Which would be entertaining. And I don't think people are discounting concerns for the player's well-being either.

I don't think those leagues are development tools at all. If anything, they inhibit development. That's why NHL teams want those players in the A, if possible. That's why NHL teams will tell a prized prospect to go back to juniors, and concentrate on strength and conditioning even to the detriment of their on-ice numbers.

To the bolded, 100% all day long.

If he is good enough to be one of the skaters on the top 3 lines, meaning he's beaten out all the other kids they're looking at right now AND he's beaten out Olofsson and Jost just can't see a compelling reason to not keep him up.  And right now, it looks like he's beating all those other guys out.  Victor and Tyson need to bring their A games tonight because if they don't one could be on his way out the door to another franchise and the other's hold on the 13th spot (12th if you believe he'd play ahead of Rousek keeping Benson out of the picture; personally don't believe he would, but it's possible) becomes extremely tenuous.

This is fun.  And we're actually watching battles for positions that will leave an NHL quality F or 2 or 4 on the outside looking in.  One more similarity between this team and the '05-'06 version.  (Thorburn got claimed by Atlanta IIRC (might've been Pittsburgh) and Pominville somehow cleared waivers fortunately.)

[nfreeman]

I heard that Taylor Swift only took up with Travis Kelce because Benson wasn't returning her calls.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I heard that Taylor Swift only took up with Travis Kelce because Benson wasn't returning her calls.

He's a *boy*.  Travis is all man.  Don't know what he sees in her though, aside from the obvious.

[...]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You realize this argument holds for every single player in every single contact sport?

If you're trying to win some sort of theoretical, existential debate on the topic. However, for reasonable people trying to grapple with a topic what you are proposing is a slippery slope.

I realize that at some point my argument becomes ridiculous. I see a threshold where the risk for injury to a player - in any sport - equalizes relatively. At that point, considering that a player has chosen to pursue a professional sport in the first place, I am happy to "let them play".

Personally, I do not believe Benson, and Bedard for that matter, have crossed that threshold. I think the adults in the room, so to speak, need to be the adults in the room.

[French Collection]

Last year DG had Quinn, Krebs and JJP rotate into the lineup at the start of the season. Once they proved they could handle it they got more and more ice time.

Perhaps this season DG has Benson, Rousek and Savoie on a similar rotation. If the two young guys go back to the WHL then Kulich and Rosen get a shot.

[bob_sauve28]

42 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I don't feel obtuse.

Arthur Carlson Jr.:
[less pays Arthur Carlson Jr. to learn what Mrs. Carlson says about him] She says that you're obtuse.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
[reading dictionary] Adultry... Admire...

Les Nessman:
Let me see that. [takes dictionary away from Herb] Obtuse...

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
[snatching dictionary back from Less] Addle-minded!

Les Nessman:
[snatching back the dictionary] Obtuse!

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
[Herb attempts to ***** dictionary, but Less slams Herb's hand in the book] Addle-ow!

Bailey Quarters:
[entering] Hi, guys.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
Oh, hi, Baily. Met Carlson's son?

Bailey Quarters:
Yes. I've had the pleasure.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
Well, he's guite a kid. Let me tell you. [under breath to Arthur Carlson Jr] Tell your dad I said that.

Les Nessman:
[excited] Obtuse! According to Websters, exceeding ninety degrees but less than one-hundred eighty degrees; lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility; rounded at the free end; dull. [looking offended] That's an insult!

Bailey Quarters:
Less, take it easy.

Les Nessman:
Take it easy!

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
Yeah. Just calm down, okay?

Les Nessman:
Don't tell me to calm down. I just paid five dollars to find out I'm rounded at the free end!

Bailey Quarters:
Cool off, Less.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
He's just mad because he's not addle-minded.

Les Nessman:
I am too.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
No. You're not.

Les Nessman:
[Herb and Less start hitting each other] Yes. I am.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
No. You're not.

Les Nessman:
Yes. I am!

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
You're not!

Bailey Quarters:
You guys! You are both addle-minded!

Les Nessman:
Thank you, Baily.

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I heard that Taylor Swift only took up with Travis Kelce because Benson wasn't returning her calls.

Well, wasn't that how she got her start in the music business, writing songs about teenagers that ignored her?  Just getting back to her roots.  😉

[...]

49 minutes ago, tom webster said:

If he helps you win any games the first couple of months, it could be the difference between making the playoffs and not. I know some see juniors and minors as some magic development tool but I’m on record as thinking that’s on par with “old wive’s tales.”

But we're not talking about generalized groups; we're talking about a specific individual at a certain place in their physical and emotional development.

Edited September 27, 2023 by ...
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Arthur Carlson Jr.:
[less pays Arthur Carlson Jr. to learn what Mrs. Carlson says about him] She says that you're obtuse.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
[reading dictionary] Adultry... Admire...

Les Nessman:
Let me see that. [takes dictionary away from Herb] Obtuse...

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
[snatching dictionary back from Less] Addle-minded!

Les Nessman:
[snatching back the dictionary] Obtuse!

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
[Herb attempts to ***** dictionary, but Less slams Herb's hand in the book] Addle-ow!

Bailey Quarters:
[entering] Hi, guys.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
Oh, hi, Baily. Met Carlson's son?

Bailey Quarters:
Yes. I've had the pleasure.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
Well, he's guite a kid. Let me tell you. [under breath to Arthur Carlson Jr] Tell your dad I said that.

Les Nessman:
[excited] Obtuse! According to Websters, exceeding ninety degrees but less than one-hundred eighty degrees; lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility; rounded at the free end; dull. [looking offended] That's an insult!

Bailey Quarters:
Less, take it easy.

Les Nessman:
Take it easy!

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
Yeah. Just calm down, okay?

Les Nessman:
Don't tell me to calm down. I just paid five dollars to find out I'm rounded at the free end!

Bailey Quarters:
Cool off, Less.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
He's just mad because he's not addle-minded.

Les Nessman:
I am too.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
No. You're not.

Les Nessman:
[Herb and Less start hitting each other] Yes. I am.

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
No. You're not.

Les Nessman:
Yes. I am!

Herbert 'Herb' Tarlek:
You're not!

Bailey Quarters:
You guys! You are both addle-minded!

Les Nessman:
Thank you, Baily.

Bailey Quarters was the subject of all my high school fantasies.  Such a hottie.

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I heard that Taylor Swift only took up with Travis Kelce because Benson wasn't returning her calls.

Calls???  Please.  DM’s.