What’s left for KA to do this Summer?

[kas23]

26 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Eventually they will have to.  Won’t let him walk away and getting nothing in return 

we will see who blinks first 

I don’t think they have to. It’s not optimal asset management, but teams have let FAs walk for nothing in return. 

[GoPuckYourself]

3 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I question if they want his long contract in my honest opinion I don't see it happening. 

I think they go with a guy that has 1-2 years left 

Thatcher Demko is who i think they're targeting, 3 years left at 5M and can trade him in 2 seasons if need be. Adams was already talking to the Canucks GM during the draft and I'm not sure who else we would want there if it isn't Demco

[Mr. Allen]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Levi is the starter.  

That’s a wonderful assumption. 
Wouldn’t that be fantastic? 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Mr. Allen

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Thatcher Demko is who i think they're targeting, 3 years left at 5M and can trade him in 2 seasons if need be. Adams was already talking to the Canucks GM during the draft and I'm not sure who else we would want there if it isn't Demco

I thinks he was talking to to Allvin about moving up.

The Canucks mandate is to make the playoffs this season. They don’t make it without Demko.

I would be stunned if he gets moved.

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, kas23 said:

I don’t think they have to. It’s not optimal asset management, but teams have let FAs walk for nothing in return. 

Sure if you are a cup contender.  No way a team like Winnipeg lets a guy heading into UFA walk for nothing 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Sure if you are a cup contender.  No way a team like Winnipeg lets a guy heading into UFA walk for nothing 

Assuming the Jets want to make a hockey trade as opposed to a futures trade, Hellebuyck for Nylander makes a ton of sense to me.

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

He isn’t looking to “get us in the playoffs” this season. He’s buying time in hopes the young players continue to develop in an accelerated fashion. 

Uh huh. Really? So if that's true, when exactly will he be looking to get us in the playoffs cause I kind of thought that was the goal we were supposed to be working on.

[French Collection]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Assuming the Jets want to make a hockey trade as opposed to a futures trade, Hellebuyck for Nylander makes a ton of sense to me.

I think Nylander has a limited no movement clause that kicked in July 1st. It sounds like he wants $10M per season from the Leafs and they are offering $8M.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Except Okposo, Girgensons, Johnson, Clifton, Greenway, Stillman and the developing Samuelsson, Krebs and Cozens.

This is what I meant with my post yesterday that people look past what has been happening and continue to see what they want to see on this particular issue.

***

I’m surprised people still see “developing” and “making the playoffs” at cross-purposes this year.

The Sabres “developed” into a 91-point team last year. If they “develop” any further, they’re in the playoffs.

The cross purposes boils down to this (in generalizations). Playoff teams by and large have veterans throughout their line up and any rookie coming up has to earn a spot based on his play or else he stays down in the minors. We, as the development team placed rookies in the line up to let them learn on the job and make mistakes along the way. The (perhaps unexpected) playoff possibility had them reduce ice time for some of these guys who cost us at times earlier in the year. But the overall plan was to let them all grow together. If this continues with newer prospects the same results will continue.

Weaknesses are weaknesses and you need to improve those specific things if you want to be better and not just a general overall improvement. 

I've acknowledged our D looks better, I'm just questioning whether it's good enough yet. I don't think it is. I also don't think I see great 2 way defense from the list of players above. I'm pretty confidant Clifton gives us a better version of Lybushkin but he's not a top pairing guy, he will just make a good stop gap fix to pair with Power (guessing). I saw nothing in Greenway that makes me think he's anything. Stillman is not good. Krebs I'm still not sold on. A lot of people love Krebs here, but I've yet to see anything that puts him above a 4C. Samuelsson is of course a developing solid D man and Cozens is just fine but he's the only top forward we have who can play 2 way hockey at this point imo. 

and then there's the goalie question.

Call it pessimism over optimism or whatever you want, but, although the moves made were fine, and I like Clifton quite a bit, I just don't think we did enough. 

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, kas23 said:

I don’t think they have to. It’s not optimal asset management, but teams have let FAs walk for nothing in return. 

*cough, cough* Ullmark *cough*

[B-U-F-F-A-L-O]

7 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Oh I completely disagree, I think KA is in fact looking to get the Sabres in the playoffs this coming season. Even if it means four games and out. I think KA has a lot of faith in the talent that’s on the team currently. Right or wrong, good or bad, he just has a lot of confidence in what he has built over the course of three years. Barring any major injuries to major top six players… I think the Sabres have a really good shot of making the playoffs. Regardless of if they upgrade the goaltending. Upgrading the goaltending would be a more comfortable position going into the season. I hope it happens, but if it doesn’t, it’s not a guaranteed missing of the playoffs next season. At least that’s how I see it now in July.

I think it’s somewhere in between. There’s no way this is definitely a playoff team and there’s no way it is not a playoff team.

We could be much better with a better #4 RHD, a true #1 goalie or another top winger. I wanted another winger before Quinn got hurt. And I think it’s foolish to count on Quinn much this year….

Our third line looks average at best this year…. Greenway - Krebs - Casey….. and Casey is probably going to the 2nd line….

I wanted four good lines…. I wanted to add a player like Killorn before Quinn got hurt…. I think Savoie and Kulich should stay in minor leagues….

I don’t see why KA didn’t want his talent to force their way on the Sabres…. Looks like we’ll be giving them jobs instead.

 

[nfreeman]

43 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The cross purposes boils down to this (in generalizations). Playoff teams by and large have veterans throughout their line up and any rookie coming up has to earn a spot based on his play or else he stays down in the minors. We, as the development team placed rookies in the line up to let them learn on the job and make mistakes along the way. The (perhaps unexpected) playoff possibility had them reduce ice time for some of these guys who cost us at times earlier in the year. But the overall plan was to let them all grow together. If this continues with newer prospects the same results will continue.

Weaknesses are weaknesses and you need to improve those specific things if you want to be better and not just a general overall improvement. 

I've acknowledged our D looks better, I'm just questioning whether it's good enough yet. I don't think it is. I also don't think I see great 2 way defense from the list of players above. I'm pretty confidant Clifton gives us a better version of Lybushkin but he's not a top pairing guy, he will just make a good stop gap fix to pair with Power (guessing). I saw nothing in Greenway that makes me think he's anything. Stillman is not good. Krebs I'm still not sold on. A lot of people love Krebs here, but I've yet to see anything that puts him above a 4C. Samuelsson is of course a developing solid D man and Cozens is just fine but he's the only top forward we have who can play 2 way hockey at this point imo. 

and then there's the goalie question.

Call it pessimism over optimism or whatever you want, but, although the moves made were fine, and I like Clifton quite a bit, I just don't think we did enough. 

Much of this is fair, but I don’t think the plan is to have a few rookies in the lineup next year.  It’s still pretty unlikely that Kulich or Savoie makes the team.  So it will be last year’s rookies, with more experience than they had last year and another offseason of coaching and physical growth, plus veteran, playoff-tested reinforcements on D, plus hopefully/probably better goaltending provided by the One.

[dudacek]

52 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The cross purposes boils down to this (in generalizations). Playoff teams by and large have veterans throughout their line up and any rookie coming up has to earn a spot based on his play or else he stays down in the minors. We, as the development team placed rookies in the line up to let them learn on the job and make mistakes along the way. The (perhaps unexpected) playoff possibility had them reduce ice time for some of these guys who cost us at times earlier in the year. But the overall plan was to let them all grow together. If this continues with newer prospects the same results will continue.

Weaknesses are weaknesses and you need to improve those specific things if you want to be better and not just a general overall improvement. 

I've acknowledged our D looks better, I'm just questioning whether it's good enough yet. I don't think it is. I also don't think I see great 2 way defense from the list of players above. I'm pretty confidant Clifton gives us a better version of Lybushkin but he's not a top pairing guy, he will just make a good stop gap fix to pair with Power (guessing). I saw nothing in Greenway that makes me think he's anything. Stillman is not good. Krebs I'm still not sold on. A lot of people love Krebs here, but I've yet to see anything that puts him above a 4C. Samuelsson is of course a developing solid D man and Cozens is just fine but he's the only top forward we have who can play 2 way hockey at this point imo. 

and then there's the goalie question.

Call it pessimism over optimism or whatever you want, but, although the moves made were fine, and I like Clifton quite a bit, I just don't think we did enough. 

To the bold, sure last year was “development,” but it was also “let’s see what we have”. And a good portion of last year’s kids proved they were up to the roles asked of them and don’t need to upgraded.

Yes, some - Quinn, JJ, Power, Krebs - will be asked to be better, but it’s not unreasonable to think they can be better. They were rookies, they should get better. And none of them are being asked to move up the lineup, just be more effective in their previous roles. It’s not like the team is moving in another 5 rookies this year.

The rest of it -pessimistic or not - is all fair comment. There’s no reason to believe Greenway, Clifton, Levi or anyone else will fix our weaknesses until they do.

All they are is acknowledgement that Adams saw what we did and made attempts to fix it.

Edited July 4, 2023 by dudacek

[Doohickie]

What does Kevyn have left to do?  Tidy things up.  Which defensemen are staying on the roster, which are going to Rochester and which... need to be moved.  That's about it.

I expect Kevyn will continue to look for improvements to the roster, particularly at defense and goal, but I'm also fully prepared to see this team play in October as is.  If he makes improvements, more power to him.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

To the bold, sure last year was “development,” but it was also “let’s see what we have”. And a good portion of last year’s kids proved they were up to the roles asked of them and don’t need to upgraded.

That's only partially true though. UPL certainly didn't prove it so now (at the moment) it's in the hands of a rookie. Not something I'd bet on. 

The main reason we were better last year was not because of Quinn and Peterka (or Krebs). It was because Cozens took a huge leap forward - HUGE - Samuelsson showed himself to be a capable NHLer on a consistent basis and Power was above his years as a rookie. Those 3 things were the big difference but who is the leap forward this year? It's not Quinn, we know that already. Again, at the moment, it all hinges on the rookie goalie. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's only partially true though. UPL certainly didn't prove it so now (at the moment) it's in the hands of a rookie. Not something I'd bet on. 

The main reason we were better last year was not because of Quinn and Peterka (or Krebs). It was because Cozens took a huge leap forward - HUGE - Samuelsson showed himself to be a capable NHLer on a consistent basis and Power was above his years as a rookie. Those 3 things were the big difference but who is the leap forward this year? It's not Quinn, we know that already. Again, at the moment, it all hinges on the rookie goalie. 

Don't forget TNT, Skinner, Tuch, Dahlin and Mitts' career years.

[Turbo44]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Assuming the Jets want to make a hockey trade as opposed to a futures trade, Hellebuyck for Nylander makes a ton of sense to me.

So Nylander can walk away after a year? I suppose they can flip him at the deadline 

[PASabreFan]

Kübler-Ross has entered the chat.

[Crusader1969]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

Assuming the Jets want to make a hockey trade as opposed to a futures trade, Hellebuyck for Nylander makes a ton of sense to me.

Would love to see the leafs extend a 30+ Helleybuck for 8 years -$9 mill contract. 

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Don't forget TNT, Skinner, Tuch, Dahlin and Mitts' career years.

You don’t know that.  TNT, Mitts and Dahlin still have room to grow 

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

You don’t know that.  TNT, Mitts and Dahlin still have room to grow 

I think he just meant career year so far.

[Pimlach]

16 hours ago, Georgia Blizzard said:

I think they have a playoff roster with the moves they've made.

I don't think a move for a slightly better goaltender will make a material difference.

I want this team built for sustained long term success,

 

 

Well no one else wanted a slightly better goalie.  Most of us wanted a proven NHL goalie to pair with Levi.   They are all gone.  So it’s easy for Adams to say that the goalies out there aren’t better than what we have because he failed to make the trades needed to get one when they were available.   

What did Adams do?  

Defense -  Replaced Clague and Bryson with Clifton and Johnson.  Sure, the defense is better, and the PK should be better, but by how much?  Both of these guys were bottom pairings on contending teams   Johnson brings experience and a cup and adds depth.     Clifton is young and tough   I give these moves a  C+ for now, and maybe a solid B if Clifton has another level that we didn’t see in Boston.  

Forwards -  he re-signed KO, ZG, and Jost.   With Quinn on IR he failed to add a forward so is his plan to backfill with the one dimensional Olofsson?   Kulich, Savoie and Rousek will all get a look   Nothing was done to address face-offs or adding a solid two-way player on a team that ranked 32 in this category and was poor defensively.   He is banking on a healthy first line (didn’t happen last year) and improved play of existing players, one if those key players is on IR.  

Goalies - Levi, UPL and Comrie are all inexperienced and unproven  Levi looks like the real deal but 7 games is not a lot to go with.  Anderson was the most reliable goalie on the team last year until Levi arrived, he is gone.  Maybe UPL will surprise us?  In my opinion Adams is taking a big risk.     

Are they a playoff team?   That is a huge “we shall see”.   We have to stay healthy and right out of the gate we lost a 2nd line winger in Quinn.  This team is counting on improvement of young players.  The core players all need to have another big season and Levi needs to be the very rare true rookie star goalie.   

They are almost the same team, the defense looks a bit better on paper, so the team improvement must come from player improvement.  The players with more significant upside that must improve are Quinn, Peterka, Power, Samuelsson, Greenway, and the new rookies.  Dahlin must have another Norris contending year   Tage, Tuch, Skinner, Mitrs and Cozens must not slip in production.   

On top of that we better hope Pittsburgh, the Isles, and the Lightning all continue to get worse and that Ottawa and Detroit don’t make a jump.  
 

It’s possible we are a playoff team but if the goaltending doesn’t hold up we finished outside looking in.  

[Georgia Blizzard]

GMKA and Sabres fans both want:

1- Sustained long term success

AND

2-Make the playoffs in 2023-24 season

 

Unfortunately, some moves that help #1, hurt #2 and some moves that help #2, hurt #1.  GMKA has basically made most of the moves he can make that help both or at least help one without hurting the other. 

Note: Trading VO and/or a low end D or F prospect might be the last ones remaining that help both.

 

Central to the debate now, are those moves that seem to help one, but hurt the other.

 

I think the goaltending situation is the trickiest of these to solve since both Levi and UPL are good long term prospects, but both have question marks in the short term.  No matter what decision GMKA makes, it will carry significant risk.

As a fan, I am more focused on #1 and form my opinions around that objective vs. #2.  I do acknowledge that making the playoffs and gaining that experience enhances #1.

 

 

[Turbo44]

10 hours ago, B-U-F-F-A-L-O said:

I think it’s somewhere in between. There’s no way this is definitely a playoff team and there’s no way it is not a playoff team.

We could be much better with a better #4 RHD, a true #1 goalie or another top winger. I wanted another winger before Quinn got hurt. And I think it’s foolish to count on Quinn much this year….

Our third line looks average at best this year…. Greenway - Krebs - Casey….. and Casey is probably going to the 2nd line….

I wanted four good lines…. I wanted to add a player like Killorn before Quinn got hurt…. I think Savoie and Kulich should stay in minor leagues….

I don’t see why KA didn’t want his talent to force their way on the Sabres…. Looks like we’ll be giving them jobs instead.

 

From KA’s press conferences, I think:

1. Goalies stay as is, he seems to have much more faith in UPL than the masses. Barring an injury, he’ll attempt to send Comrie to Rochester

2. Forwards - I think he adds one more, though not sure it’ll be a big name Tarasenko type, though hope so. Tarasenko or Tatar would be great at this point. KA said they were in on a few UFA forwards on 7.1, and very close on one of them, but it didn’t work out. Means to me he’s still hunting

3. Defense is the big ? Is he still in on Pesce and the process is being held up by karlsson’s eventual trade? This would be a great move.  If joker or bush was involved in a trade for a Pesce type, we’d still have 9 nhl d contracts. Bryson would be sent to Rochester, if he’s claimed = who cares

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

From KA’s press conferences, I think:

1. Goalies stay as is, he seems to have much more faith in UPL than the masses. Barring an injury, he’ll attempt to send Comrie to Rochester

2. Forwards - I think he adds one more, though not sure it’ll be a big name Tarasenko type, though hope so. Tarasenko or Tatar would be great at this point. KA said they were in on a few UFA forwards on 7.1, and very close on one of them, but it didn’t work out. Means to me he’s still hunting

3. Defense is the big ? Is he still in on Pesce and the process is being held up by karlsson’s eventual trade? This would be a great move.  If joker or bush was involved in a trade for a Pesce type, we’d still have 9 nhl d contracts. Bryson would be sent to Rochester, if he’s claimed = who cares

Tarasenko is going to play with his buddy Orlov

 

[Turbo44]

9 minutes ago, Georgia Blizzard said:

GMKA and Sabres fans both want:

1- Sustained long term success

AND

2-Make the playoffs in 2023-24 season

 

Unfortunately, some moves that help #1, hurt #2 and some moves that help #2, hurt #1.  GMKA has basically made most of the moves he can make that help both or at least help one without hurting the other. 

Note: Trading VO and/or a low end D or F prospect might be the last ones remaining that help both.

 

Central to the debate now, are those moves that seem to help one, but hurt the other.

 

I think the goaltending situation is the trickiest of these to solve since both Levi and UPL are good long term prospects, but both have question marks in the short term.  No matter what decision GMKA makes, it will carry significant risk.

As a fan, I am more focused on #1 and form my opinions around that objective vs. #2.  I do acknowledge that making the playoffs and gaining that experience enhances #1.

 

 

Problem with trading #68 at this point is who really covets him and who could pay his 4.8m salary. It almost seems to me he’ll have to go in a bigger deal. If Carolina could utilize him (not sure of this but maybe they need a goal scorer), maybe a trade of joker, Oloffson and a first for Pesce?  That’s 7.25m in salary going to Carolina and 4.025m coming back. Maybe we have to hold half of oloff’s salary? Pegs doesn’t like doing that BUT it’s only for 1 year. This senario is still cap positive for us; +0.825m

Edited July 4, 2023 by Turbo44