Sabres sale rumor

[SABRES 0311]

9 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I mean the team DOES go up in value relative to the rest of the NHL. The Sabres doubled in value since Terry bought them but they are still one of the bottom 3 in valuation.  

But why would someone want to become a minority owner of the team? They would definitely make money once the team is sold again. But it's more likely a break-even venture at best while you own it. You have to really be a fan and not care about the money or use it as a write-off.

Sabres are showing some promise however small.  If they continue to progress their value may go higher than other teams.  Buy into it now when they are still a bottom feeder maybe results in a buy low sell high down the road.  I dunno I'm not a businessman.

[LabattBlue]

Some days I want the Pegula’s to sell the Sabres ASAP.  Other days, I worry about what might be behind Curtain #2. 

[PromoTheRobot]

24 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Some days I want the Pegula’s to sell the Sabres ASAP.  Other days, I worry about what might be behind Curtain #2. 

"Can it get any worse?" The answer is usually yes 

[aristocrat]

Problem if they sell is the new owner may put the current gm and coach on a short leash.   The Sabres would be a pretty attractive sale for a lot of people. Most teams lose a lot of money and this team has show it can turn a profit or breakeven.  I mean guys still throw money at the coyotes and that team bleeds money like I've never seen. 

[PromoTheRobot]

32 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Problem if they sell is the new owner may put the current gm and coach on a short leash.   The Sabres would be a pretty attractive sale for a lot of people. Most teams lose a lot of money and this team has show it can turn a profit or breakeven.  I mean guys still throw money at the coyotes and that team bleeds money like I've never seen. 

Did you ever read the in-depth article on the Coyotes? Talk about your owner from hell.

[JohnC]

46 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Some days I want the Pegula’s to sell the Sabres ASAP.  Other days, I worry about what might be behind Curtain #2. 

I would hate to see the Pegulas sell the team. Shortly after taking control a new owner would most likely want to install a new management team. For an organization that for years has undergone staff churning, it would be a disaster. The Pegulas have made a number of mistakes. That's an easy conclusion to come to. However, it just seems that now, after a number of setbacks, a quality staff is in place, and a blueprint for rebuilding the team is steadily being implemented. Not only are some of the young players on the Sabres emerging, in addition, there is a group of young players in Rochester who are near ready to make the roster. The near future looks bright. Compare the situation now to when to when Krueger was the coach? That was only a year ago!

When the Pegulas bought the Bills they made a number of mistakes in their effort to make a splash. It didn't work. They finally installed a quality staff that has done a sterling job. It is evident for everyone to see every Sunday. The Buffalo Bills are not only a contending team, but they are also one of the most entertaining teams in the NFL. If the Pegulas follow the same strategy, as they appear to be doing (belatedly) with the Sabres, then the future looks bright. 

None of us know for sure what the Pegulas' intentions are. Being owners of a perennially losing franchise and the target of fan frustrations can't be enjoyable. And losing money while being subjected to such vilification isn't very pleasant. I just hope that the owners stay in place and allow this rebuilding process to run its course. It's not a steady progressive line but it's trending in the right direction. Let's stay the course. 

 

[aristocrat]

23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Did you ever read the in-depth article on the Coyotes? Talk about your owner from hell.

I've heard some things but not sure of the article you're speaking of.  I don't understand how a guy bought the team out of bankruptcy, team continued to lose money and then sold it to the current guy for double the price like 2 years later or something.  Just hilarious

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

"Can it get any worse?" The answer is usually yes 

The Sabres have had 4 owners in 50+ years.

None were 'bad' owners, until one group ended up being croocks, but up until then they ran the team well.  Then things fell apart and the NHL took over until OSP saved them, which made him a hero.  And here we are.  The Pegulas are not bad owners, but have made some terrible decisions.

 

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I mean the team DOES go up in value relative to the rest of the NHL. The Sabres doubled in value since Terry bought them but they are still one of the bottom 3 in valuation.  

But why would someone want to become a minority owner of the team? They would definitely make money once the team is sold again. But it's more likely a break-even venture at best while you own it. You have to really be a fan and not care about the money or use it as a write-off.

You're thinking too small. The Pegulas don't own sports teams because they need the yearly revenue from them. They own them as an investment because their value goes up and its an easy item to liquidate. Sabres are 5 min from Canada and 1.5 hours from Toronto. Lots of rich ppl would love to invest in that. It's not about making 2mil a year but about the value of that entity in the end. And yes, when it loses money they definitely write that off.

Also it gives rich ppl something to play with. In a decade the Sabres have tripled in value, that's a pretty good investment. 

[Pimlach]

The Pegula’s could hire a Hockey President to run the team rather than deal with a minority owner.  I don’t understand their reluctance. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Pimlach

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

The Sabres have had 4 owners in 50+ years.

None were 'bad' owners, until one group ended up being croocks, but up until then they ran the team well.  Then things fell apart and the NHL took over until OSP saved them, which made him a hero.  And here we are.  The Pegulas are not bad owners, but have made some terrible decisions.

 

A very open question for me is whether the two of them truly acknowledge that they've made terrible decisions. If they've done a public mea culpa, I missed it. Also, has Ter stopped meddling? As of the Taylor Hall signing, the answer was no.

12 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The Pegula’s could hire Hockey President to run the team rather than deal with a minority owner.  I dint understand their reluctance. 

And there's the reason it's a very open question for me. Terry remains hockey president. Whether he's as active in that role as he used to be, I'm not sure.

Edited December 23, 2021 by PASabreFan
eggnog

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The Pegula’s could hire Hockey President to run the team rather than deal with a minority owner.  I dint understand their reluctance. 

Why would they hire someone basically already fulfilling that role in Adams?

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I would hate to see the Pegulas sell the team. Shortly after taking control a new owner would most likely want to install a new management team. For an organization that for years has undergone staff churning, it would be a disaster. The Pegulas have made a number of mistakes. That's an easy conclusion to come to. However, it just seems that now, after a number of setbacks, a quality staff is in place, and a blueprint for rebuilding the team is steadily being implemented. Not only are some of the young players on the Sabres emerging, in addition, there is a group of young players in Rochester who are near ready to make the roster. The near future looks bright. Compare the situation now to when to when Krueger was the coach? That was only a year ago!

When the Pegulas bought the Bills they made a number of mistakes in their effort to make a splash. It didn't work. They finally installed a quality staff that has done a sterling job. It is evident for everyone to see every Sunday. The Buffalo Bills are not only a contending team, but they are also one of the most entertaining teams in the NFL. If the Pegulas follow the same strategy, as they appear to be doing (belatedly) with the Sabres, then the future looks bright. 

None of us know for sure what the Pegulas' intentions are. Being owners of a perennially losing franchise and the target of fan frustrations can't be enjoyable. And losing money while being subjected to such vilification isn't very pleasant. I just hope that the owners stay in place and allow this rebuilding process to run its course. It's not a steady progressive line but it's trending in the right direction. Let's stay the course. 

 

They should be vilified (only one l... interesting). Hopefully Kim puts Terry's big boy pants on every morning and he can take it.

Also, is there no opportunity to give RaKru some credit? He hired Granato. (Or was it JaBo?) No wiggle room in terms of helping some of the kids develop? They seemed to like him anyway.

Finally if things are so rosy as you portray, don't you think a new owner would see it and stay the course?

 

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

A very open question for me is whether the two of them truly acknowledge that they've made terrible decisions. If they've done a public mea culpa, I missed it. Also, has Ter stopped meddling? As of the Taylor Hall signing, the answer was no.

And there's the reason it's a very open question for me. Terry remains hockey president. Whether he's as active in that role as he used to be, I'm not sure.

You want the Pegulas to tell everyone they made bad hires?  Doesn't the fact they've got rid of them state enough?  Sounds like you just want to see egg on their faces...

[PASabreFan]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

You want the Pegulas to tell everyone they made bad hires?  Doesn't the fact they've got rid of them state enough?  Sounds like you just want to see egg on their faces...

When someone is fired, it can reflect badly on the employee, the boss or both.

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

When someone is fired, it can reflect badly on the employee, the boss or both.

True but if the fans can't determine for themselves which occurs, maybe they shouldn't be judging.  

[Flashsabre]

The Pegulas are about trust and communication. They felt burned by Murray and Botts. Adams is their man.

If there ever was going to be a President of Hockey Ops it would be putting the title on Adams and Karamos would be GM. They aren’t bringing anyone else in to directly report to them that hey don’t know and fully trust.

[inkman]

16 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The Pegulas are about trust and communication. They felt burned by Murray and Botts. Adams is their man.

If there ever was going to be a President of Hockey Ops it would be putting the title on Adams and Karamos would be GM. They aren’t bringing anyone else in to directly report to them that hey don’t know and fully trust.

Isn't the last 2 pages of this discussion about a new owner bringing in new GM & coach?  

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

When someone is fired, it can reflect badly on the employee, the boss or both.

When it happens every 2-3 years, almost like clockwork, it reflects on the one doing the hiring (& firing).

Personally, don't see the need for the public mea culpa & absolutely won't expect it.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The Pegula’s could hire Hockey President to run the team rather than deal with a minority owner.  I dint understand their reluctance. 

Adams already seems to be in the John Davidson role as far as responsibilities go, so really don't see the point of bringing in a Hockey VP &/ or Team President.  Don't see a point to bringing in a minority owner either unless it is to liquidate a portion of the team's on-paper appreciation.

If they did want to just concentrate on the Bills & their non-sports holdings, wouldn't it make sense that they'd be divesting from the Bandits &/or Amerks rather than restoring box lacrosse in Ra-cha-cha &/or possibly dumping the Sabres?

[PASabreFan]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

When it happens every 2-3 years, almost like clockwork, it reflects on the one doing the hiring (& firing).

Personally, don't see the need for the public mea culpa & absolutely won't expect it.

It's amazing that after all this time some people still talk about the Pegulas "making mistakes." They didn't. They hired good, reputable, touted hockey people, some with long histories of success.

They were the mistake.

 

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

They should be vilified (only one l... interesting). Hopefully Kim puts Terry's big boy pants on every morning and he can take it.

Also, is there no opportunity to give RaKru some credit? He hired Granato. (Or was it JaBo?) No wiggle room in terms of helping some of the kids develop? They seemed to like him anyway.

Finally if things are so rosy as you portray, don't you think a new owner would see it and stay the course?

 

Botterill hired Granato, and brought in most of the players on the current roster, yes

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's amazing that after all this time some people still talk about the Pegulas "making mistakes." They didn't. They hired good, reputable, touted hockey people, some with long histories of success.

They were the mistake.

 

Don't know about that necessarily.  It took 2 cracks at it for them to get a competent management team for the Bills, but they did in fact find competent management there.

The Bandits are one of the best franchises in indoor lax.  And pretty sure they've actually been better under the Pegulas than under Golisano.  And neither have lived up to the heyday when all the teams were under a single ownership group w/ local management running the day to day items.

Would really love to hear what the conversation between ownership & Regier that set the course to "suffering" really was like & who else was involved in that decision.  That threw the team into a tailspin it's still to this day not recovered from.  Would also be interesting, though there's no way to ever get a do-over, to see how either never bringing in Murray or at a minimum replacing him w/ another proponent of "west coast hockey" would've worked out.  Botterill's vision was a polar opposite to that of Murray and his decision to stop focusing on big guys that had skill also slowed the emergence from the tank.  Adams seemingly having the same preferred player type as JBotts as evidenced by keeping the younger guys brought in by JBotts at least only set his version of the rebuild back 1-2 years in all likelihood relative to the 3-4+ set in motion by the previous 3 GMs.

Unfortunately, the team WE care the most about is the one that ownership has suffered through the worst growing pains.  Yes, their changing directions so often when having stayed the original course but with much better scouting & the opportunity presented by being able to be 1 of the 1st teams on the analytics front rather than a late rider of the bandwagon put this franchise in a terrible predicament.  But their getting really bad advice from the league, Brandon, & others was as big, if not a bigger impediment to their success than their being neophytes was.  MHO.  Ymmv.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

They should be vilified (only one l... interesting). Hopefully Kim puts Terry's big boy pants on every morning and he can take it.

Also, is there no opportunity to give RaKru some credit? He hired Granato. (Or was it JaBo?) No wiggle room in terms of helping some of the kids develop? They seemed to like him anyway.

Finally if things are so rosy as you portray, don't you think a new owner would see it and stay the course?

 

Of course, the owners should be criticized for the way they have run this franchise. Their record is their record. I didn't say otherwise. What I did say is that as owners who have deservedly earned the criticisms in the way in which they managed the operation and combined with the loss of millions $$$ it would be understandable why they would consider selling. (I'm not saying they are interested in selling because I don't know.) But it wouldn't be too difficult to understand why they would consider washing their hands and moving on from this public business. 

With respect to giving credit to Krueger for hiring Granato, he is not getting it from me. First, we don't know if he was the person who hired him. And second, as soon as Granato took over he pivoted and did the opposite of what Krueger was espousing with much better results. Based on Krueger's record he failed miserably. 

And with respect to the second highlighted line I didn't say things are rosy. I did say that the situation is trending in a positive direction, and that if the organization stays the course the outcome looks promising. Right now, under the Pegulas, I know the direction of this franchise. With a new owner, I don't. 

[Thorny]

33 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's amazing that after all this time some people still talk about the Pegulas "making mistakes." They didn't. They hired good, reputable, touted hockey people, some with long histories of success.

They were the mistake.

 

They made a mistake telling Botterill to move ROR before the bonus set in