Suitors for Reinhart?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Hoss said:

I don't WANT Quick ... but if he's a body in a trade to make salaries work/get a little more out of LA then I'm fine with it.

It should also be noted that Cal Petersen didn't do much better then Quick last year behind LA's porous defense 

Petersen 35 GP, .911 and 2.89

Quick 22 GP, .898 and 2.86.

FYI Hutton 13 gp .886 and 3.47

[Hoss]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It should also be noted that Cal Petersen didn't do much better then Quick last year behind LA's porous defense 

Petersen 35 GP, .911 and 2.89

Quick 22 GP, .898 and 2.86.

FYI Hutton 13 gp .886 and 3.47

I would counter by saying a .911 save percentage in 13 more games is significantly better than .898, to be fair.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I would counter by saying a .911 save percentage in 13 more games is significantly better than .898, to be fair.

It's certainly better and that's why he is the starter going forward, but it's not like the spread between Ullmark and Hutton last season (.917 vs .886). Quick and Cal's GGA were nearly the same unlike Ullmark and Hutton (2.63 vs. 3.47)

Quick is an upgrade over Hutton and if you can re-sign Ullmark, I think the team's chances of success with that tandem are much much better. Quick also adds Cup winning leadership which we desperately need as well.

Edited July 7, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Maybe a late 1st and a C prospect.

maybe. But my point really is we will get more trading him this summer than we would at the deadline. Teams will squeeze us like Boston did with Hall and Adams will get low balled again. Better to trade him now after the good end to this season.

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Are you kidding me?

Nick Foligno and David Savard got that. Pageau, Zucker, Coleman…

Playoff track records and multiple suitors. Remember what we got for Hall. 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

maybe. But my point really is we will get more trading him this summer than we would at the deadline. Teams will squeeze us like Boston did with Hall and Adams will get low balled again. Better to trade him now after the good end to this season.

Playoff track records and multiple suitors. Remember what we got for Hall. 

Hall had an NMC. And he also had 2 goals and quit on his team. Sabres still got 2 pieces.

Edited July 7, 2021 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Hall had an NMC. And he also had 2 goals and quit on his team. Sabres still got 2 pieces.

I just think we get more for him now than we'd get then. He's at peak value. A one year signing isn't worth it. 

[thewookie1]

If I'm trading Reinhart it will be entirely based on getting a Top 10 pick this year at least and perhaps a prospect and/or 1 year cap dump depending on his value.

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I just think we get more for him now than we'd get then. He's at peak value. A one year signing isn't worth it. 

100 per cent agree with your first 2 sentences.

Really worried about Casey and Dylan as 1C and 2C next year and I wonder about the cost/benefit of keeping Sam until the deadline versus signing or acquiring (a likely inferior) someone else to protect them.

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

maybe. But my point really is we will get more trading him this summer than we would at the deadline. Teams will squeeze us like Boston did with Hall and Adams will get low balled again. Better to trade him now after the good end to this season.

Playoff track records and multiple suitors. Remember what we got for Hall. 

I agree that we would likely get much more trading him right now vs later but I disagree with the notion that the other players mentioned would get more than what we'd get for Reinhart at the deadline. We'd get what those players got with ease. Hall situation, as already noted, was not comparable.

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

100 per cent agree with your first 2 sentences.

Really worried about Casey and Dylan as 1C and 2C next year and I wonder about the cost/benefit of keeping Sam until the deadline versus signing or acquiring (a likely inferior) someone else to protect them.

IF we trade away Jack/Sam/Risto and don't return an immediate/placeholder vet 1C then I'd immediately turn to free agency. Throw short-term money at guys like Krejci, Getzlaf, Stastny, Granlund, Danault. I don't believe any of those guys are 1C anymore (some never were) but I'd rather have them log some big, tough minutes while the others get ready. Ideally this player comes in a trade, though.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

100 per cent agree with your first 2 sentences.

Really worried about Casey and Dylan as 1C and 2C next year and I wonder about the cost/benefit of keeping Sam until the deadline versus signing or acquiring (a likely inferior) someone else to protect them.

personally I'd be more worried about the effect Sam would have on the locker room and these impressionable kids if he knows he's leaving at the deadline. 

This is a possible culture change moment and I don't want to lose it with half measures. It's too fragile for that. If we dont' do this right, we are stuck with another cycle and another round and we will never get out of this mire. 

26 minutes ago, Hoss said:

IF we trade away Jack/Sam/Risto and don't return an immediate/placeholder vet 1C then I'd immediately turn to free agency. Throw short-term money at guys like Krejci, Getzlaf, Stastny, Granlund, Danault. I don't believe any of those guys are 1C anymore (some never were) but I'd rather have them log some big, tough minutes while the others get ready. Ideally this player comes in a trade, though.

Guy I wish we could land would be Czikis. Not a 1C, I know that, but invaluable for leadership for these kids. 

[Thorny]

11 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Or he gets seriously injured trying to ride out one year, and loses out on a lot of cash monies. 

Reinhart Injured is an oxymoron 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

100 per cent agree with your first 2 sentences.

Really worried about Casey and Dylan as 1C and 2C next year and I wonder about the cost/benefit of keeping Sam until the deadline versus signing or acquiring (a likely inferior) someone else to protect them.

I agree.  The only caveat is the return for Jack.  If there is a viable center in the package the ability to grant Sam’s trade request increases.  

The other advantage to keeping Sam is that if things are going well he could decide to re-sign long-term.  

The biggest benefit to trading him now is that there is a greater likelihood of getting a top 10 1st pick now vs the deadline.

Edited July 7, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[nfreeman]

38 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  The only caveat is the return for Jack.  If there is a viable center in the package the ability to grant Sam’s trade request increases.  

The other advantage to keeping Sam is that if things are going well he could decide to re-sign long-term.  

The biggest benefit to trading him now is that there is a greater likelihood of getting a top 10 1st pick now vs the deadline.

I don't think they're getting a top-10 pick for Reino unless the Sabres add significant sweeteners.

[kas23]

I’m beginning to wonder if Reino isn’t going to be moved after all. He’s a really simple piece to trade. No injury. No bad reputation. Great player. And KA is probably just asking for a top-10 pick. Maybe he wants to stay and they are negotiating a deal?

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

I’m beginning to wonder if Reino isn’t going to be moved after all. He’s a really simple piece to trade. No injury. No bad reputation. Great player. And KA is probably just asking for a top-10 pick. Maybe he wants to stay and they are negotiating a deal?

I'll be very surprised if he signs a long-term deal with the Sabres this summer.  I think he wants to see real improvement on the ice and organizationally before he commits the rest of his prime to this franchise.

I do think it's possible that he signs a 1- or 2-year deal with the Sabres this summer and then a longer extension if they are able to turn it around, but it's more likely IMHO that he'll be traded this summer.

[Doohickie]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Chad DeDominicis was doing a mock offseason with His Co Host Anthony, there were two scenarios proposed regarding Reinhart’s Future. 
 

The First was a 3 year 7.5 Million Contract Extension with a Full NMC for Samson with the Sabres. 
 

The Second was Reinhart to LA for 8OA, Turcotte and Quick. 
 

The second option was chosen with the Sabres getting Power, Elkund( 3rd OA) and MacTavish with the 8OA Pick. 
 

The Eichel Trade was to Anaheim for 3OA, Comtois, Dostal and Lacombe. 

I could live with either scenario.  I've been thinking a multi-year, but shortish term, contract might be the way to keep Sam (and if you search through this thread I think I said as much earlier).  If he clicks with KA's system and the team starts winning, then maybe a follow-on deal is possible.  If not but we trade Eichel, it would soften the blow of losing our 1C.

[SabresVet]

9 hours ago, Hoss said:

IF we trade away Jack/Sam/Risto and don't return an immediate/placeholder vet 1C then I'd immediately turn to free agency. Throw short-term money at guys like Krejci, Getzlaf, Stastny, Granlund, Danault. I don't believe any of those guys are 1C anymore (some never were) but I'd rather have them log some big, tough minutes while the others get ready. Ideally this player comes in a trade, though.

I have a hard time believing that UFAs with options are interested in signing with a rebuilding team like Buffalo.  KA would need to overpay and I'm not seeing how they want more bad contracts.

I also can't see them wanting veterans coming back unless it's a salary dump.  Because Terry saw what went down with ROR and doesn't want to repeat that experience and look bad again.

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think they're getting a top-10 pick for Reino unless the Sabres add significant sweeteners.

I think you are drastically underestimating Sam’s value.  How many  60 pt+ players in their prime who can play 1st line center are available?

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think they're getting a top-10 pick for Reino unless the Sabres add significant sweeteners.

I would suspect that Vancouver at 9 and LA at 8 would add sweeteners for Sam.

He’s definitely comparable to Jordan Staal, when Staal was traded for 8, Doumoulin and Sutter, 

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I would suspect that Vancouver at 9 and LA at 8 would add sweeteners for Sam.

He’s definitely comparable to Jordan Staal, when Staal was traded for 8, Doumoulin and Sutter, 

LA would be like 8, Kupari and something or maybe 8 and Turcotte. 

Sam's reliability as a 25goal scorer is very enticing I am sure. On top of that if you can sign him to anything under 7mil (in this market I think you can) for 5 or more years you have really good value. 

[nfreeman]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you are drastically underestimating Sam’s value.  How many  60 pt+ players in their prime who can play 1st line center are available?

 

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I would suspect that Vancouver at 9 and LA at 8 would add sweeteners for Sam.

He’s definitely comparable to Jordan Staal, when Staal was traded for 8, Doumoulin and Sutter, 

Reino has Sabres stink on him, is a UFA in 1 year, will turn 27 at the beginning of his next contract, is a slow skater in a league that gets faster every year and, I'd guess, would be rated lower by at least 28 NHL GMs than Jordan Staal was rated at the time of that trade (when Staal was 23 and still far away from UFA).

Reino is a good player that I'd like to keep, but top-10 picks are traded very rarely for a reason, and I don't see the Sabres getting one for him.  I suppose it's more likely if Reino signs an extension as part of the trade, but that is also pretty unusual, and I think Reino might be disinclined to do so in light of the horrorshow he will have just escaped.

 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

Reino has Sabres stink on him, is a UFA in 1 year, will turn 27 at the beginning of his next contract, is a slow skater in a league that gets faster every year and, I'd guess, would be rated lower by at least 28 NHL GMs than Jordan Staal was rated at the time of that trade (when Staal was 23 and still far away from UFA).

Reino is a good player that I'd like to keep, but top-10 picks are traded very rarely for a reason, and I don't see the Sabres getting one for him.  I suppose it's more likely if Reino signs an extension as part of the trade, but that is also pretty unusual, and I think Reino might be disinclined to do so in light of the horrorshow he will have just escaped.

 

First, Reinhart won't even turn 26 before the start of his next contract. He's an RFA and will sign a deal before the season starts so that's now at the age of 25. Second, he's an RFA right now so if a team even gets him to sign a 5 year deal that's good value to them. 

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

Reino has Sabres stink on him, is a UFA in 1 year, will turn 27 at the beginning of his next contract, is a slow skater in a league that gets faster every year and, I'd guess, would be rated lower by at least 28 NHL GMs than Jordan Staal was rated at the time of that trade (when Staal was 23 and still far away from UFA).

Reino is a good player that I'd like to keep, but top-10 picks are traded very rarely for a reason, and I don't see the Sabres getting one for him.  I suppose it's more likely if Reino signs an extension as part of the trade, but that is also pretty unusual, and I think Reino might be disinclined to do so in light of the horrorshow he will have just escaped.

 

Staal was two months shy of his 24th birthday and a 6th-year pro, a year away from unrestricted free agency coming off a season of 50 points, which was his career high.

Reinhart is seven months past his 25th birthday and a 6th-year pro, a year away from unrestricted free agency coming off a season of 40 points, and a career high of 65.

As far as comparables go, they are a lot closer than you say.

I am very confident that Sam will get a top 10 pick or similar prospect. Care to make a charity wager?

Edited July 7, 2021 by dudacek

[nfreeman]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

First, Reinhart won't even turn 26 before the start of his next contract. He's an RFA and will sign a deal before the season starts so that's now at the age of 25. Second, he's an RFA right now so if a team even gets him to sign a 5 year deal that's good value to them. 

You're right.  What I meant was that he'll turn 27 at the start of the contract he signs at the beginning of his UFA period -- i.e. if he signs a 1-year deal now and then an extension with either the Sabres or his new team -- but of course that won't happen if he signs a long-term deal now.

 

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Staal was two months shy of his 24th birthday and a 6th-year pro, a year away from unrestricted free agency coming off a season of 50 points, which was his career high.

Reinhart is seven months past his 25th birthday and a 6th-year pro, a year away from unrestricted free agency coming off a season of 40 points, and a career high of 65.

As far as comparables go, they are a lot closer than you say.

I am very confident that Sam will get a top 10 pick or similar prospect. Care to make a charity wager?

Yes on the charity wager, assuming we'll be reasonable if there are multiple pieces involved in the trade.  $20 to the charity of the winner's choice?  And, for good karma, we both donate if he starts the season with the Sabres?

As for whether Staal is a fair comparable -- it's not a bad comparable, but I do think there is some daylight between them -- enough that I'm confident making the wager anyway.