sabremike Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, dudacek said: From all the comparables I’ve searched, I don’t think you are too far off on Reinhart: 8OA (Canucks have 9) plus a 2ndary prospect like a Fagemo seems to be ballpark, if the interest is what people are making it out to be. The Sabres may have to send a lesser piece like a 3rd back. Risto’s trade value fascinates me. Historically, big, nasty 40-point RH defencemen are gold in the NHL. But then you get that whole conventional analytics argument that says you’d get a better return collecting pop bottles. I suspect NHL front offices are as divided on Risto as fans are. But all you need is two GMs who like him bidding against each other. My brain says if David Savard can rate a 1st and a 3rd putting up the kind of conventional and fancystats he has, then why can’t Risto? But we shall see. The problem was that the fools who have coached this team insisted in putting him in positions where he not only failed miserably but also exposed all of his flaws in a way that they couldn't be ignored and turned him into a living terrible player meme. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, dudacek said: OK, this was posted on Reddit by some random guy. Too funny not to share: So none of you are going to believe me, but I'm posting what I've witnessed today during my reffing experience today. Rob Blake is in town for his son's hockey tournament (Battle of Buffalo). During warm-ups, one of the kids goes to Blake's son and the conversation goes like this: "dude, is your dad really trying to trade for eichel?" "***** no, he's trying for Reinhart and Risto" "why not eichel?" "he's a whiny bitch from what my dad says" I skated away cause I was laughing too hard Too funny and weird to not be true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnC said: Do you really believe that the Sabres are going to be able to hoodwink a trading partner over Jack's health status? Do you really believe that a team would give up a bounty of assets for a player who turns out to be damaged goods? I'm very confident that teams serious about trading for Jack will do their due diligence. Will there be risks on his future health status? There are always some risks that will be factored in the equation. Jack's attitude doesn't have to rise to the level of toxicity to reach a point where the GM feels that it is in the organization's best interest that he be moved, especially if he wants a fresh start. My opinion: I'm sure that the driving force here is that Jack (and even Samson and Risto) is frustrated with the situation here and don't want to be here any longer. There is no secret about their dissatisfaction with the situation and organization. And although KA is an inexperienced GM he isn't so clueless not to be able to recognize their unhappiness here. To me this is a case where the players are not the bad guys. This inevitable divorce of players wanting out happens in all sports. In badly run organizations this type of disgruntled situation happens more often than with well run franchises. Look at the Green Bay and Rogers bad blood saga. I'm not happy that the situation has devolved to this but it is time to move on. And that's the thinking I believe that KA has. I don’t think the Sabres would be hoodwinking anyone. Any trade partner would have access to Jack’s medical reports. My assumption is that (i) the medical reports will be inconclusive, ie not able to state with any certainty, or even much confidence, what the medical outcome will be and (ii) the trading partner will be more willing to take the risk than the Sabres are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 Tort’s old buddy Larry Brooks says the Hawks are part of the Eichel sweepstakes. https://nypost.com/2021/06/19/chicago-blackhawks-enter-jack-eichel-trade-sweepstakes/ He speculates Dach and pick 11 would have to be part of the return. I must say, someone is doing a pretty good job of trying to use media hype to flush a blue-chipper on to the table. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: Tort’s old buddy Larry Brooks says the Hawks are part of the Eichel sweepstakes. https://nypost.com/2021/06/19/chicago-blackhawks-enter-jack-eichel-trade-sweepstakes/ He speculates Dach and pick 11 would have to be part of the return. I must say, someone is doing a pretty good job of trying to use media hype to flush a blue-chipper on to the table. Their main pieces are Dach, 11th, Boqvist, JJ’s buddy Reichel They have always been a team I would hope come after Jack. Dach and Cozens had great chemistry at the WJCs prelims before Dach got injured. Dahlin-Boqvist would be a nice Swedish Connection. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I don’t think the Sabres would be hoodwinking anyone. Any trade partner would have access to Jack’s medical reports. My assumption is that (i) the medical reports will be inconclusive, ie not able to state with any certainty, or even much confidence, what the medical outcome will be and (ii) the trading partner will be more willing to take the risk than the Sabres are. Then we go back to your original post. The driving issue for the GM wanting to move Jack has less to do with his health status (although it is a factor) than it does to to do with Jack wanting a change. From the young GM's perspective the issue then becomes whether the player's desire to move on is incompatible with the team attitude he is trying to create. It seems to me that both sides of the table have come to the same conclusion that a change is in the best interest for the parties involved. Edited June 19, 2021 by JohnC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, dudacek said: Tort’s old buddy Larry Brooks says the Hawks are part of the Eichel sweepstakes. https://nypost.com/2021/06/19/chicago-blackhawks-enter-jack-eichel-trade-sweepstakes/ He speculates Dach and pick 11 would have to be part of the return. I must say, someone is doing a pretty good job of trying to use media hype to flush a blue-chipper on to the table. Dach, #11, and another piece could be a nice return 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 20 hours ago, Eleven said: From the team's perspective, I think it is the only factor. From Eichel's perspective, well, I wonder if he is using the insistence upon surgery to try to get away. There are confirmed rumours of Adams shopping him/listening to offers for 2 years now - I don't think we can say it's the only factor at all. 17 hours ago, dudacek said: I just want to be clear: Its your take that Adams would probably rather be keeping Jack, but the injury and the difference in opinion of its treatment has driven enough of a wedge that he has decided the right path is to trade him, even if it means possibly taking a hit on the return. Im not saying you’re wrong, but I am saying if you are right Adams is an idiot. Exactly. I don't think it can be just that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, dudacek said: I am of the opinion Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, Asplund, Mittelstadt, Thompson, Jokiharju, Dahlin, Samuelsson, Johnson, Lukkonnen is a respectable collection of young talent. We are going to add this year’s 2 2nds, plus a 1st OA, plus another sizeable collection of young pieces by trading Risto, Sam and Jack that could conceivably double that. It should be a base a good hockey man can build a competitive team around. It’s just too bad the previous guys failed despite having similar tools at their disposal. And that we are going to have to wait even longer to see if Kevyn is any better. Do we think it would be possible for Kevyn Adams to morph this roster into a Montreal-level team, in one offseason? Why not? Edited June 19, 2021 by Thorny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Thorny said: Do we think it would be possible for Kevyn Adams to morph this roster into a Montreal-level team, in one offseason? Why not? You need the stud goalie. That is a huge piece to find. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Flashsabre said: You need the stud goalie. That is a huge piece to find. That's definitely true. But their entire roster is playing really well around him too though. I don't mean specifically become Montreal, but you'd think the overall talent gap isn't that unthinkable to close. At least not with Jack and Sam - they don't have that 1C, for example. There's no reason to me if we are trading the type of assets we are the goal can't be to field a team capable of making the playoffs, like Montreal. Then you see what happens (Obviously playing in the North Division helped). But they are still at that level where they are going to make it interesting every year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Flashsabre said: Their main pieces are Dach, 11th, Boqvist, JJ’s buddy Reichel They have always been a team I would hope come after Jack. Dach and Cozens had great chemistry at the WJCs prelims before Dach got injured. Dahlin-Boqvist would be a nice Swedish Connection. Dach, 11th, Boqvist, Reichel is an alright return for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoath Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 Just now, TheCerebral1 said: Dach, 11th, Boqvist, Reichel is an alright return for sure. At least the jersey alterations would be cheap, provided Lukas gets no.9! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Flashsabre said: You need the stud goalie. That is a huge piece to find. And Shea Weber, or there abouts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 4 hours ago, JohnC said: Then we go back to your original post. The driving issue for the GM wanting to move Jack has less to do with his health status (although it is a factor) than it does to to do with Jack wanting a change. From the young GM's perspective the issue then becomes whether the player's desire to move on is incompatible with the team attitude he is trying to create. It seems to me that both sides of the table have come to the same conclusion that a change is in the best interest for the parties involved. Well, this may be what you think is the case, but it’s far from having been established as fact. My entire point was that I think this is NOT the driving issue, and that the key factor is, rather, KA’s determination that Eichel is permanently damaged goods. I suppose we’ll find out in time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 19, 2021 Report Share Posted June 19, 2021 23 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Well, this may be what you think is the case, but it’s far from having been established as fact. My entire point was that I think this is NOT the driving issue, and that the key factor is, rather, KA’s determination that Eichel is permanently damaged goods. I suppose we’ll find out in time. We simply are going to disagree on what is the driving force to trade Jack if that comes to pass. As I stated on previous posts after listening to KA's interview to the press after the Jack "disconnect" post season interview I'm much more inclined to believe (to the point of confidence) that the GM wants the player out as much as the player wants out. And little of that has to do with Jack's health status as much as the GM wants to clear the deck of players who are not fully on board. And it appears (my belief) that Jack and his reps have made his feelings clear on this issue. As you state there's no need to go in circles on this issue. At this point if he gets dealt it really doesn't matter what the main reason is for the relocation as it does what the outcome turns out to be. And at this point a fresh start for Jack may be the best thing for him and a fresh start for the Sabres under the young GM may be the best thing for the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Balls Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) I really hope everyone is prepared to be just as dumbfounded as I will be with the return we get for Eichel. It'll take a miracle for Adams to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get a decent return. Get ready to be really unimpressed. I have zero faith in everyone right now. Thank God I can use my Bills season tickets again this year. Edited June 20, 2021 by Claude Balls 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Claude Balls said: I really hope everyone is prepared to be just as dumbfounded as I will be with the return we get for Eichel. It'll take a miracle for Adams to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get a decent return. Get ready to be really unimpressed. I have zero faith in everyone right now. Thank God I can use my Bills season tickets again this year. There was never much hope; just a fool's hope. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 12 hours ago, Claude Balls said: I really hope everyone is prepared to be just as dumbfounded as I will be with the return we get for Eichel. It'll take a miracle for Adams to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get a decent return. Get ready to be really unimpressed. I have zero faith in everyone right now. Thank God I can use my Bills season tickets again this year. No one is expecting KA to make magical deals for Jack, Samson or Risto (if he is moved). But that is not to say that he can't come away after trading these players with a good return. Will the value coming in match the value going out? Not necessarily. But that is not to say that after the expected trades the end result is that the roster won't have more promising young players than it did before the trade process started. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 2 hours ago, JohnC said: No one is expecting KA to make magical deals for Jack, Samson or Risto (if he is moved). But that is not to say that he can't come away after trading these players with a good return. Will the value coming in match the value going out? Not necessarily. But that is not to say that after the expected trades the end result is that the roster won't have more promising young players than it did before the trade process started. So trade in a dollar for 4 younger quarters, I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 I get why people want the 20-year-old WJC stud over the the 18-year-old magic bean, but don’t underestimate the value of 3OA. 2020 Tim Stutzle 2019 Kirby Dach 2018 Jesperi Kotkaniemi (Brady Tkachuk) 2017 Miro Heiskanen (Cale Makar, Elias Petterson) 2016 Pierre Luc Dubois 2015 Dylan Strome (Mitch Marner) 2014 Leon Draisaitl 2013 Jonathan Drouin (Seth Jones) 2012 Alex Galchenyuk 2011 Jonathan Huberdeau 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 Time Line What good is turning things around if by the time they do it I’m not around to see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, TheCerebral1 said: Dach, 11th, Boqvist, Reichel is an alright return for sure. That would be a home run but you wouldn’t get all that. Dach, 11OA, Reichel, cap dump would be more like it and still a very good return. Dach is a big, stud High end young centre who has great chemistry with Cozens. Reichel can fly and is buddies with JJ, 11 OA isn’t far off quality wise from 3 OA in this draft. Edited June 20, 2021 by Flashsabre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Flashsabre said: That would be a home run but you wouldn’t get all that. Dach, 11OA, Reichel, cap dump would be more like it and still a very good return. Dach is a big, stud High end young centre who has great chemistry with Cozens. Reichel can fly and is buddies with JJ, 11 OA isn’t far off quality wise from 3 OA in this draft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Agreed. But a good spot to grab Wallstedt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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