2021 NHL Draft Rankings

[Taro T]

49 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Nobody actually talks about Power that way, you’re just so sure about your feelings against him that anything in favor of him seems like unreasonable praise. He’s a very good prospect. Just like other prospects he’s got plenty to work on.

The way you talk about a lot of prospects is excessive. You say all Brandt Clarke needs to work on is his skating. If that were true he’d be locked in as number one. Then you get into a long list of hyper specific criticisms of Power’s game.

What's kind of funny/strange about that list is that of 8 or 9 criticisms 3 are directly related to 1 (gap control) and a 5th (skating transitions) plays a fairly significant role in gap control.

And don't really have a dog in this scrap.  Been too busy to finally start digging in a bit into the prospects & have been leaning towards Beniers but from following the discussions would be happy w/ Eklund and OK w/ Power as well.

[Hoss]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

What's kind of funny/strange about that list is that of 8 or 9 criticisms 3 are directly related to 1 (gap control) and a 5th (skating transitions) plays a fairly significant role in gap control.

And don't really have a dog in this scrap.  Been too busy to finally start digging in a bit into the prospects & have been leaning towards Beniers but from following the discussions would be happy w/ Eklund and OK w/ Power as well.

Power, Eklund and Beniers are the picks that wouldn’t give me pause. I am confused by the idea that we somehow don’t need Power, though. We currently have zero high-end defenders. You need two/three to compete in the playoffs. We currently have maybe two or three forwards and that number may go down but if you’re going to count on prospects on d then you have to count on the forward prospects we already have, too.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

Power, Eklund and Beniers are the picks that wouldn’t give me pause. I am confused by the idea that we somehow don’t need Power, though. We currently have zero high-end defenders. You need two/three to compete in the playoffs. We currently have maybe two or three forwards and that number may go down but if you’re going to count on prospects on d then you have to count on the forward prospects we already have, too.

There are 0 high end defenders at present, but Dahlin should really start showing consistent signs of being one this year.

And the thought of having 2 guys that could both be legit top pairing D-men (even though they both are lefty shooters) for many years is very intriging.  

One of those 3, or maybe somebody else, will prove in hindsight that he should've been THE 1.  But like you say, any of the 3 should be contributors once they're ready.

[Hoss]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

There are 0 high end defenders at present, but Dahlin should really start showing consistent signs of being one this year.

And the thought of having 2 guys that could both be legit top pairing D-men (even though they both are lefty shooters) for many years is very intriging.  

One of those 3, or maybe somebody else, will prove in hindsight that he should've been THE 1.  But like you say, any of the 3 should be contributors once they're ready.

It has felt like the draft is months away for a while but luckily for all our sanity it’s a week and a half away.

[rakish]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

It has felt like the draft is months away for a while but luckily for all our sanity it’s a week and a half away.

Week and a half, crap, I got 500 videos to make

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, rakish said:

Week and a half, crap, I got 500 videos to make

While you're at it, could you make 1 more?  It isn't draft related, and it's only 10 minutes long, but it's about 2 months past due, and would really help a pal out of a jam.  Figured once you get on a roll, what's an extra 10 minutes?

(And, no, @inkman, it isn't one of THOSE videos.  It's work related.)  

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

I have repeatedly said Hedman is an unrealistic and unlikely ceiling for Power. I didn’t read beyond that because I’m not wasting my time anymore.

I'm done too because I'm sick of your burying your head attitude and little personal snipes. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

What's kind of funny/strange about that list is that of 8 or 9 criticisms 3 are directly related to 1 (gap control) and a 5th (skating transitions) plays a fairly significant role in gap control.

And don't really have a dog in this scrap.  Been too busy to finally start digging in a bit into the prospects & have been leaning towards Beniers but from following the discussions would be happy w/ Eklund and OK w/ Power as well.

You can group his issues however you want. 

[SwampD]

I have not seen one person say that Powers is the second coming of Hedman.

Literally not one person.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You can group his issues however you want. 

Your 1st reply was more entertaining.  😉

 

[LGR4GM]

I'm gonna send my draft list to Rakish early next week. I think the top 10 is set, maybe the top 20 but this year has been really difficult due to limited data and tape. 

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I have not seen one person say that Powers is the second coming of Hedman.

Literally not one person.

Say that exactly, no. Make the comparison... I stopped looking after the first five. 

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I’ve said it before, if Power can be like Hedman, or any type of Norris Candidate, I would pick him first.  I mention Hedman as a comparable because of his size, but asking for the same offensive production is a lot   Just be a force that controls the flow out of our zone.   

Remember, it took years for Hedman to become the Hedman of today, which is 1 Norris in 12 years.  I like that Power has committed to another year in NCAA.  That will help him a lot.  I’m fine with that   Granato has enough kids to worry about.  

Also regarding Ekblad.  He is still a young defenseman and already was getting Norris attention.  What’s not to like?  The recent cup winners all seem to have great/hot goalies and a Norris type defenseman.   Some have elite centers, some teams have a few centers in the next tier down.  

 

5 hours ago, SwampD said:

Oh, brother. Yes, that's what I'm saying.

When compared to doodlebug forwards, no D is ever going to crack that list (as I can't see the article, I don't know if any did.) How many times would Chara or Hedman make a list of puck handling skaters.

 

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Barzal or ROR? lol

If you're talking ceilings, Power could reach Hedman... his floor is Ekblad (who, btw went #1 OA).

 

On 7/2/2021 at 9:56 PM, Pimlach said:

Well if he can be close to Hedman then you have got to pick him.  That’s a cornerstone player.  

 

On 7/2/2021 at 10:03 PM, Hoss said:

I know I’m being lazy because of height but he’s likely somewhere between Tyler Myers and Victor Hedman. But Hedman is a Hall of Famer and one of the best defensemen of his era so that’s a high peg to place a prospect on. We’ll see in due time and, I imagine, in Buffalo.

At least Hoss notes it is unlikely Power gets to Hedman level (which is very true)

[LGR4GM]

And one from Pronman:

On 6/2/2021 at 11:21 PM, Crusader1969 said:

More from Pronman 

“ If you told me in seven or eight years that Power became as valuable as Dougie Hamilton or Hedman, I could completely buy that outcome. Given how good Power looked playing with and against NHL players at the world championships, I could easily envision him in the NHL next season and more than holding his own.”

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I have 12 updated or final rankings and here is the consensus so far.

1).  There is a distinct top 10 in 4 tiers.  Tier 1- Powers; Tier 2 - Beniers & Eklund; Tier 3 - Clarke, Hughes & Guenther; Tier 4 - Edvinsson, McTavish, Johnson & Wallstadt

2.) 11-18 is in two tiers.  Tier 5 - Lucius, Sillinger, & Svechkov (I think he is the most likely to jump into the top 10).  Tier 6 - Lysell, Raty, Cossa, Coronato & Lambos.

3.) 19-21 - Tier 7 - Othmann, Chibrikov, and Olausson. 

4.) 22-23 - Tier 8 - Rosen & Pinelli with Pinelli likely to drop on draft day.

5.) 24-28 - Tier 9 - Ceulemans, Bolduc, Bourgault, Robertsson, & Samoskevich.  I think Ceulemans will go before 24, while the remainder could easily slip further down or easily into the early second. 

6.) 29-33 - Tier 10 - Stankoven, L'Heireux, Chayka, Toumaala, & Dean.  Stankoven has guys that love his game and others who don't.  

7.) 34-38 - Honorable Mentions: Guys who could break into the first - Pastujov, Behrens, Martino, Svozil and Koivunen.

In all 64 guys got at least one vote as a first rd talent.  Only 13 players were unanimous.  Svechkov has one detractor, but is otherwise the faster riser on the board.  The first 21 were on 11 or 12 ballots.  After them this is a real crapshoot.

Edited July 13, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Norcal]

Gallant fell in love with Power during Worlds. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

Right, I think it’s semantics as to whether you view it as a negative or just something that needs to be worked on.

Ugh, something that a prospect needs to improve on is a negative, by definition.  The more things they really need to work on, the worse the prospect, to generalize.

[SwampD]

45 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Say that exactly, no. Make the comparison... I stopped looking after the first five. 

 

 

 

 

At least Hoss notes it is unlikely Power gets to Hedman level (which is very true)

I never said he’d be Hedman. As an example, I asked if Hedman would ever be on a skating and stick handling list.

You saw what you wanted to see.

FTR, I genuinely don’t know who should be picked first, but I find Eklund the most intriguing.

Edited July 13, 2021 by SwampD

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I am forced to refute Power because ppl like you drop in and make him sound like the second coming of Hedman mixed with Lidstrom and that just isn't the case.

You're trying to have two different conversations and passing them off as the same thing. Nobody has ever said Power is Hedman. That's just a popular ceiling for him. Nobody on this board is saying he is a lock or even likely to become that. I've never seen anyone mention Lidstrom a single time when discussing Power but maybe I missed it.

Now, all of a sudden, it has changed to you hunting down people simply making a comparison. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone making the Hedman comparison. It's a fair CEILING projection (meaning incredibly unlikely) just like your Patrice Bergeron comparison for Beniers. Why is it fair to compare your favorite to a Hall of Famer but others cannot?

Edited July 13, 2021 by Hoss

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Say that exactly, no. Make the comparison... I stopped looking after the first five. 

Also: you quoted Pimlach twice who specifically has NOT compared him to Hedman but is noting that if others who have mentioned Hedman are correct then he wants Power. SwampD isn't making a comparison. Pi and I are the only ones who were actually making the "comparison" among your quoted posts and both of us mentioned that it's unlikely.

Again, there is nothing wrong with the Hedman comparison or praising Power. There is nothing wrong with preferring him. I've never seen anyone here say anything about him that you couldn't google and find four or five experts saying the same thing because it comes from the research we've all done on our own. Nobody thinks Power is the second coming of anything.

I like your favorites, as well. Beniers and Eklund very well could be better players. There's no reason for this animosity or torpedoing every post in favor of Power in unnecessary and disingenuous ways.

[Hank]

I love the time, effort and willingness LGR puts into compiling all this information and presenting it in a way for the board to consume. He turned me onto Beniers and i like him very much. Thank you LGR. I also think Power is just as good a prospect. which one a poster would want comes down to the posters personal preference as we could use both players. I believe LGR would like Power more if he was three inches shorter. Over the past couple years hes demonstrated he likes the smaller player, all else being equal. Dont know if its a small personal bias, hes playing the contrarian role against the perceived "big guy love", or if is maniacle, but its there. 

[PerreaultForever]

idk why the Hedman comparison keeps coming up. I guess that's just LGR4GM pushing that to make his point. He's not going to be Hedman, He's going to be Shea Weber or Pieterangelo. Anyone have a problem with that? 

and Beniers isn't going to be Bergeron, he's going to be Horvat at best. But that isn't bad either. 

I'm not sure who Eklund will be. He's tenacious but I don't think he's Forsberg level. I've seen some Zetterberg comparisons but that might be a reach. Maybe. 

(by the way @LGR4GM I forgot to mention this earlier in the other related thread, my mentioning Reinhart wasn't supposed to mean a direct skating comparison, but rather that both lauded as having great hockey IQ but neither having elite speed and that was where it ends). 

[pi2000]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

His worlds showing didn't impress me but highlighted the good and bad. 

Where was Eklund at the Worlds?

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Where was Eklund at the Worlds?

I believe he was injured in a warm up game before the tournament... he took a shot to the hand but my understanding was nothing was broken. 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Hank said:

I love the time, effort and willingness LGR puts into compiling all this information and presenting it in a way for the board to consume. He turned me onto Beniers and i like him very much. Thank you LGR. I also think Power is just as good a prospect. which one a poster would want comes down to the posters personal preference as we could use both players. I believe LGR would like Power more if he was three inches shorter. Over the past couple years hes demonstrated he likes the smaller player, all else being equal. Dont know if its a small personal bias, hes playing the contrarian role against the perceived "big guy love", or if is maniacle, but its there. 

Smaller players present better value as you move through the draft because most NHL teams value height over underage production. I have no problem with tall guys if they produce at higher levels. It just so happens that Rossi, Jarvis, Robertson were shorter guys who would go in our ranges and be good. 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Hoss said:

Also: you quoted Pimlach twice who specifically has NOT compared him to Hedman but is noting that if others who have mentioned Hedman are correct then he wants Power. SwampD isn't making a comparison. Pi and I are the only ones who were actually making the "comparison" among your quoted posts and both of us mentioned that it's unlikely.

Again, there is nothing wrong with the Hedman comparison or praising Power. There is nothing wrong with preferring him. I've never seen anyone here say anything about him that you couldn't google and find four or five experts saying the same thing because it comes from the research we've all done on our own. Nobody thinks Power is the second coming of anything.

I like your favorites, as well. Beniers and Eklund very well could be better players. There's no reason for this animosity or torpedoing every post in favor of Power in unnecessary and disingenuous ways.

Right, semantics. Talking about Power in the sentence as Hedman isn't a comparison it is just all fun and games. 

Literally going to ignore the Pronman quote which is funny as well. 

My animosity is not toward Power but towards you and Perraults. Anytime I mention Power in a less than glowing light you suit up for battle like some type of medieval cosplay master.