COVID-19

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

For the flu- just search. Top search for 2017-2018 all the cases treated in tents all across the country:

 

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-overwhelmed-flu-patients-treating-192834539.html

Oh that's just precious.  It was 1/20th of the death count of Covid.  Nowhere near as bad as we've had over the last year.

[SwampD]

9 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Using your individual anecdote has even littler value that an AP news article with anecdotes from across the country, but okay go straight for the kill shot and show your true colors. 

That’s rich, my “individual anecdote.” I’m talking about the largest hospital in one of the most the most populated counties in the country.

Don’t get me wrong, that flu was bad. It’s not even in the same ballpark as this. The weren’t building temporary annexes in parking lots and using mobile morgues for the flu.

You've shown your true colors by being completely full of sh!t.

Just now, Doohickie said:

Oh that's just precious.  It was 1/20th of the death count of Covid.  Nowhere near as bad as we've had over the last year.

No. It’s just the reporting.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

For the flu- just search. Top search for 2017-2018 all the cases treated in tents all across the country:

 

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-overwhelmed-flu-patients-treating-192834539.html

 

Holy ***** are you ignoring scale here.

From the CDC

2017–2018 Burden Estimates

CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2017–2018 season was high with an estimated 45 million people getting sick with influenza, 21 million people going to a health care provider, 810,000 hospitalizations, and 61,000 deaths from influenza (Table 1).

In another month or two we may see as many DEATHS from COVID as there were hospitalizations from the 2017 flu season.  And COIVD has already claimed more than 10x the lives as that flu season.  And that doesn't even account for long term health issues due to COVID illnesses.

[triumph_communes]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

Holy ***** are you ignoring scale here.

From the CDC

2017–2018 Burden Estimates

CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2017–2018 season was high with an estimated 45 million people getting sick with influenza, 21 million people going to a health care provider, 810,000 hospitalizations, and 61,000 deaths from influenza (Table 1).

In another month or two we may see as many DEATHS from COVID as there were hospitalizations from the 2017 flu season.  And COIVD has already claimed more than 10x the lives as that flu season.  And that doesn't even account for long term health issues due to COVID illnesses.

Ya don’t trust a damn covid number considering the feds since the outset agreed to pay $33k/patient to any hospital who took them in.  Call me conspiracy all you want, but the ambulance workers I knew other than broken bones were told to be classifying anyone else as a covid case so they could bank.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not disagreeing things with covid aren’t worse. But the sympathy ends there. The treatment doctors gave the first few months accelerated the decline of patients. And the good doctors admitted to this, it’s not conspiracy it’s just the hard pill to swallow facts. Ventilators were a big oopsies. It was all a cluster.  And that leads to my greater point - the smugness that people know better than those who early on cling to things the science has only proven over time to be right is pure emotional midgetry 

[SwampD]

16 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Ya don’t trust a damn covid number considering the feds since the outset agreed to pay $33k/patient to any hospital who took them in.  Call me conspiracy all you want, but the ambulance workers I knew other than broken bones were told to be classifying anyone else as a covid case so they could bank.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not disagreeing things with covid aren’t worse. But the sympathy ends there. The treatment doctors gave the first few months accelerated the decline of patients. And the good doctors admitted to this, it’s not conspiracy it’s just the hard pill to swallow facts. Ventilators were a big oopsies. It was all a cluster.  And that leads to my greater point - the smugness that people know better than those who early on cling to things the science has only proven over time to be right is pure emotional midgetry 

For the record, my father and sister both died during the pandemic. Nowhere does it say they died of Covid, blowing your bs theory out of the water (a theory that was debunked over a year ago.)

Oh, the irony of you speaking of smugness and emotional midgetry,...

Why am I not surprised that you would use a “word” like midgetry?

[triumph_communes]

10 minutes ago, SwampD said:

For the record, my father and sister both died during the pandemic. Nowhere does it say they died of Covid, blowing your bs theory out of the water (a theory that was debunked over a year ago.)

Oh, the irony of you speaking of smugness and emotional midgetry,...

Why am I not surprised that you would use a “word” like midgetry?

Another anecdote debunked me, gotcha 

Edited August 24, 2021 by triumph_communes

[Doohickie]

35 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

the feds since the outset agreed to pay $33k/patient to any hospital who took them in.

This is also BS.  Just about every "fact" you cite about Covid is BS.  I mean, yes, tin foil hat BS.

[SwampD]

31 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Another anecdote debunked me, gotcha 

Oh, wait. That’s right. They had broken bones.

[Weave]

7 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Ya don’t trust a damn covid number considering the feds since the outset agreed to pay $33k/patient to any hospital who took them in.  Call me conspiracy all you want, but the ambulance workers I knew other than broken bones were told to be classifying anyone else as a covid case so they could bank.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not disagreeing things with covid aren’t worse. But the sympathy ends there. The treatment doctors gave the first few months accelerated the decline of patients. And the good doctors admitted to this, it’s not conspiracy it’s just the hard pill to swallow facts. Ventilators were a big oopsies. It was all a cluster.  And that leads to my greater point - the smugness that people know better than those who early on cling to things the science has only proven over time to be right is pure emotional midgetry 

I’ll take “Things that never happened” for $800, Alex.

So, you cite CDC flu stats to bolster your argument but discredit CDC stats that don’t support your argument?  
 

Edit to add-  there is a 20% increase in payouts to hospitals for covid related treatment related to the fact that Covid care is much more costly, but only for Medicaid and uninsured patients.  It is patently untrue that hospitals were getting $33k from the feds every time a patient was coded with Covid.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Weave

[miles]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ll take “Things that never happened” for $800, Alex.

So, you cite CDC flu stats to bolster your argument but discredit CDC stats that don’t support your argument?  
 

Edit to add-  there is a 20% increase in payouts to hospitals for covid related treatment related to the fact that Covid care is much more costly, but only for Medicaid and uninsured patients.  It is patently untrue that hospitals were getting $33k from the feds every time a patient was coded with Covid.

I definitely believe the numbers have being inflated. You have people who get 2 tests to verify. And the deaths are probably also being inflated. I read that there was a guy that died of alcohol poison but he had covid, so it was counted as a covid death. 

 

Of course all of my information is from the internet so im sure most of it is made up. 

 

However I will say with 100% certainty that covid has been used as a political tool since it started. that is not something made up on the internet, its fact. Both sides are guilty of it

[SwampD]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ll take “Things that never happened” for $800, Alex.

So, you cite CDC flu stats to bolster your argument but discredit CDC stats that don’t support your argument?  
 

Edit to add-  there is a 20% increase in payouts to hospitals for covid related treatment related to the fact that Covid care is much more costly, but only for Medicaid and uninsured patients.  It is patently untrue that hospitals were getting $33k from the feds every time a patient was coded with Covid.

But he knows ambulance workers.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I will say, in the beginning, we were directed to put, at a minimum, "suspect Covid 19" on most charts, it did have to do with some payout, there were also some cases where Covid was put as a cause of death when we know the other underlying conditions were the culprit. 

 

In saying that, that happened in the infancy of this thing and now I'm not seeing that much, there also are no longer really any big payouts for charting that like there were last year. 

[triumph_communes]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ll take “Things that never happened” for $800, Alex.

So, you cite CDC flu stats to bolster your argument but discredit CDC stats that don’t support your argument?  
 

Edit to add-  there is a 20% increase in payouts to hospitals for covid related treatment related to the fact that Covid care is much more costly, but only for Medicaid and uninsured patients.  It is patently untrue that hospitals were getting $33k from the feds every time a patient was coded with Covid.

Ahh yes, let’s go back to fantasy land where we believe that vaccines that are still years away from finishing Phase 3 trials are getting approved anyway is not a political move at all.  Trust the scientists who were appointed 30 years ago by politicians and have been controlling the funding of research for decades. 

1 minute ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I will say, in the beginning, we were directed to put, at a minimum, "suspect Covid 19" on most charts, it did have to do with some payout, there were also some cases where Covid was put as a cause of death when we know the other underlying conditions were the culprit. 

 

In saying that, that happened in the infancy of this thing and now I'm not seeing that much, there also are no longer really any big payouts for charting that like there were last year. 

What I cited was in the original bill. That has lapsed since, yes

[Gatorman0519]

Here in Florida it’s raging worse than ever (but we are “free” according to our governor). I know dozens of people here in town who are sick. Whole families even. 4 in the hospital and one just died two nights ago 50 years old. Our friends grand daughters whole class tested positive one week into school. One kid ended up hospitalized. The thing in common they all share: none were vaccinated. A nurse we know said the vast majority coming in are unvaccinated. It’s beyond disturbing how weirdly politicized and the conspiracies that are virtually non stop. Certain political streams are really having a destabilizing effect on this nation. Just the reality. Sadly my “Qanon” buddy at work, wife is in the hospital with it. Belief has consequences. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

What in the blazes is going on in here?

[Weave]

38 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Ahh yes, let’s go back to fantasy land where we believe that vaccines that are still years away from finishing Phase 3 trials are getting approved anyway is not a political move at all.  Trust the scientists who were appointed 30 years ago by politicians and have been controlling the funding of research for decades. 

What I cited was in the original bill. That has lapsed since, yes

You gotta love the way the goalposts get moved.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  Its not approved.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  The approval was rushed.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  The scientists approving it are part of a deep state.

What would be the motivation for the these scientists to ok something that may be harmful?  What conspiracy theory with no evidence behind it are we supposed to subscribe to?

[Doohickie]

20 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Here in Florida it’s raging worse than ever (but we are “free” according to our governor). I know dozens of people here in town who are sick. Whole families even. 4 in the hospital and one just died two nights ago 50 years old. Our friends grand daughters whole class tested positive one week into school. One kid ended up hospitalized. The thing in common they all share: none were vaccinated. A nurse we know said the vast majority coming in are unvaccinated. It’s beyond disturbing how weirdly politicized and the conspiracies that are virtually non stop. Certain political streams are really having a destabilizing effect on this nation. Just the reality. Sadly my “Qanon” buddy at work, wife is in the hospital with it. Belief has consequences. 

Texas is similar.  Maybe not quite as bad, but close. 

11 minutes ago, Weave said:

You gotta love the way the goalposts get moved.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  Its not approved.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  The approval was rushed.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  The scientists approving it are part of a deep state.

What would be the motivation for the these scientists to ok something that may be harmful?  What conspiracy theory with no evidence behind it are we supposed to subscribe to?

If it doesn't fit the narrative, it must not be true.  Of course The Narrative can't be made up BS, right?

[Doohickie]

Listening right now:  https://www.npr.org/2021/08/24/1030561804/pastor-who-suffered-through-covid-19-regrets-not-getting-vaccinated

"I was falsely and erroneously overconfident."

[triumph_communes]

27 minutes ago, Weave said:

You gotta love the way the goalposts get moved.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  Its not approved.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  The approval was rushed.

I don’t trust the vaccine.  The scientists approving it are part of a deep state.

What would be the motivation for the these scientists to ok something that may be harmful?  What conspiracy theory with no evidence behind it are we supposed to subscribe to?

Ooh nice straw man. Gr8 job m8

 

Lets see the points I was trying to make:  scientists who all along we’re making judgement calls on risks: 1) were dead wrong on how to treat covid from the onset and got many more killed than necessary 2) argued against nearly harmless prophylactics because it differed from their approach in #1, 3) feds waited until there was an absurdly expensive option only the select few could approach, and otherwise held out until a vaccine was available. The vaccine does nothing to stop the spread and has clearly not gone through the normal rigor, but they pushed it anyway in historical fashion. Putting any fat person who comes in on dexamethasone is going to save more than it’ll hurt and could have been done on day 1 if they weren’t so arrogant. 
 

No centralized conspiracy here beyond what Fauci controlled. There were many moving players, many mistakes made, and many who admitted to their faults. But the narrative ignored all of that and doubled down on dividing people and pitting people against each other as if they are the reason normalcy can’t return. 
 

Your retort is somehow I’m being a hypocrite?  I’m vaccinated I can weigh risks myself. No young female should touch the vaccine with a 10ft pole IMO, there are serious side effects in the ovaries that has been squashed and silenced thanks to useful idiots like you.  They didn’t even test vaccines on women for decades because hormonal swings complicated the testing procedures.  The methods essentially are written now to exclude all hormonal swings from the observations about vaccine studies to overcompensate for this and now we have a sham of a system that hurts women at the end of the day. And most scientists are little sheeplings like you and only understand their little nipple of knowledge and are unable to put the big picture all together. They just want to take this opportunity to lash back out at the people who made fun of them their whole lives. They just want to believe they’re smarter than the guy waving a flag. Science has turned into a religious cult and cults don’t discriminate based on IQ.  The media has effectively emotionalized all issues and this nonsense you post is exactly the consequence of it- you’ve been trained to paint anyone who doesn’t pay your back with pointless straw man arguments to dehumanize me. Congrats dude, well played. 
 

 

Im not sitting in any corner that they are intentionally hurting people with a dangerous vaccine. But it’s fact there were plenty of alternatives with extremely well known side effects they actively discouraged and ignored. And the person leading that cause has been in bed with vaccine makers for decades. And once they had a solution he switched gears and accelerated the damn things in I prevented fashion. At Trumps request no doubt. It’s concerning you’d dare call that a conspiracy to point out that conflict of interest.  I have nothing against vaccines, just transparency and action. And many people died because they got greedy. They wanted a sure fire solution only their friends had a monopoly on. 
 

And now real data is coming out about severe hormonal swings because the LNPs don’t stay in the arm like claimed. You have sham scientists making assumptions on studies that clearly showed non containment. They are sham scientists no matter their credentials. They threw out their abundance of caution to make a buck or make fame.

Edited August 24, 2021 by triumph_communes

[SwampD]

Not sure that was a straw man, but, k.

[Weave]

28 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Ooh nice straw man. Gr8 job m8

 

Lets see the points I was trying to make:  scientists who all along we’re making judgement calls on risks: 1) were dead wrong on how to treat covid from the onset and got many more killed than necessary 2) argued against nearly harmless prophylactics because it differed from their approach in #1, 3) feds waited until there was an absurdly expensive option only the select few could approach, and otherwise held out until a vaccine was available. The vaccine does nothing to stop the spread and has clearly not gone through the normal rigor, but they pushed it anyway in historical fashion. Putting any fat person who comes in on dexamethasone is going to save more than it’ll hurt and could have been done on day 1 if they weren’t so arrogant. 
 

No centralized conspiracy here beyond what Fauci controlled. There were many moving players, many mistakes made, and many who admitted to their faults. But the narrative ignored all of that and doubled down on dividing people and pitting people against each other as if they are the reason normalcy can’t return. 
 

Your retort is somehow I’m being a hypocrite?  I’m vaccinated I can weigh risks myself. No young female should touch the vaccine with a 10ft pole IMO, there are serious side effects in the ovaries that has been squashed and silenced thanks to useful idiots like you.  They didn’t even test vaccines on women for decades because hormonal swings complicated the testing procedures.  The methods essentially are written now to exclude all hormonal swings from the observations about vaccine studies to overcompensate for this and now we have a sham of a system that hurts women at the end of the day. And most scientists are little sheeplings like you and only understand their little nipple of knowledge and are unable to put the big picture all together. They just want to take this opportunity to lash back out at the people who made fun of them their whole lives. They just want to believe they’re smarter than the guy waving a flag. Science has turned into a religious cult and cults don’t discriminate based on IQ.  The media has effectively emotionalized all issues and this nonsense you post is exactly the consequence of it- you’ve been trained to paint anyone who doesn’t pay your back with pointless straw man arguments to dehumanize me. Congrats dude, well played. 
 

 

Im not sitting in any corner that they are intentionally hurting people with a dangerous vaccine. But it’s fact there were plenty of alternatives with extremely well known side effects they actively discouraged and ignored. And the person leading that cause has been in bed with vaccine makers for decades. And once they had a solution he switched gears and accelerated the damn things in I prevented fashion. At Trumps request no doubt. It’s concerning you’d dare call that a conspiracy to point out that conflict of interest.  I have nothing against vaccines, just transparency and action. And many people died because they got greedy. They wanted a sure fire solution only their friends had a monopoly on. 
 

And now real data is coming out about severe hormonal swings because the LNPs don’t stay in the arm like claimed. You have sham scientists making assumptions on studies that clearly showed non containment. They are sham scientists no matter their credentials. They threw out their abundance of caution to make a buck or make fame.

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

The only thing I agreed with in his post was when he called you a useful idiot.

[Cascade Youth]

35 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Ooh nice straw man. Gr8 job m8

 

Lets see the points I was trying to make:  scientists who all along we’re making judgement calls on risks: 1) were dead wrong on how to treat covid from the onset and got many more killed than necessary 2) argued against nearly harmless prophylactics because it differed from their approach in #1, 3) feds waited until there was an absurdly expensive option only the select few could approach, and otherwise held out until a vaccine was available. The vaccine does nothing to stop the spread and has clearly not gone through the normal rigor, but they pushed it anyway in historical fashion. Putting any fat person who comes in on dexamethasone is going to save more than it’ll hurt and could have been done on day 1 if they weren’t so arrogant. 
 

No centralized conspiracy here beyond what Fauci controlled. There were many moving players, many mistakes made, and many who admitted to their faults. But the narrative ignored all of that and doubled down on dividing people and pitting people against each other as if they are the reason normalcy can’t return. 
 

Your retort is somehow I’m being a hypocrite?  I’m vaccinated I can weigh risks myself. No young female should touch the vaccine with a 10ft pole IMO, there are serious side effects in the ovaries that has been squashed and silenced thanks to useful idiots like you.  They didn’t even test vaccines on women for decades because hormonal swings complicated the testing procedures.  The methods essentially are written now to exclude all hormonal swings from the observations about vaccine studies to overcompensate for this and now we have a sham of a system that hurts women at the end of the day. And most scientists are little sheeplings like you and only understand their little nipple of knowledge and are unable to put the big picture all together. They just want to take this opportunity to lash back out at the people who made fun of them their whole lives. They just want to believe they’re smarter than the guy waving a flag. Science has turned into a religious cult and cults don’t discriminate based on IQ.  The media has effectively emotionalized all issues and this nonsense you post is exactly the consequence of it- you’ve been trained to paint anyone who doesn’t pay your back with pointless straw man arguments to dehumanize me. Congrats dude, well played. 
 

 

Im not sitting in any corner that they are intentionally hurting people with a dangerous vaccine. But it’s fact there were plenty of alternatives with extremely well known side effects they actively discouraged and ignored. And the person leading that cause has been in bed with vaccine makers for decades. And once they had a solution he switched gears and accelerated the damn things in I prevented fashion. At Trumps request no doubt. It’s concerning you’d dare call that a conspiracy to point out that conflict of interest.  I have nothing against vaccines, just transparency and action. And many people died because they got greedy. They wanted a sure fire solution only their friends had a monopoly on. 
 

And now real data is coming out about severe hormonal swings because the LNPs don’t stay in the arm like claimed. You have sham scientists making assumptions on studies that clearly showed non containment. They are sham scientists no matter their credentials. They threw out their abundance of caution to make a buck or make fame.

I'm gonna chalk this up to the after-effects of horse deworming pills.

[Weave]

20 minutes ago, SwampD said:

The only thing I agreed with in his post was when he called you a useful idiot.

I question the useful part.

[JujuFish]

Regarding the discussion of COVID-19 death count:

 

Regardless of whether it was over or undercounted, there were an estimated 600,000 excess deaths.  Maybe they're directly due to COVID-19.  Maybe they're people who had other problems and COVID-19 pushed it over the edge.  Maybe they're people who were too afraid to go to the hospital during a pandemic and something that was treatable if caught early never got caught.

Whatever the case may be, the effect is clear and serious.  ~600,000 more Americans died than expected.