GDT Islanders at Buffalo 2/8/18 7pm MSG, GR

[sabills]

Canucks?

[Doohickie]

I believe I'm ready for the Eichel captaincy.

 

I believe we have a new top line.

[pi2000]

That’s interesting. His comments after a loss sound positive, and after a win, negative.

 

So what’s the philosophy, critique them when they are in a more confident, advantageous mindset?

I had some coaches like that... where they really only care about one thing... how you play. Scoreboard doesn't matter.

I like how samson has some confidence now, you can see how he is skating through the neutrale zone with the puck on his stick sometimes.

He's attacking the game instead of waiting for the game to come to him. Love it.

[Sabel79]

Original 6, 4 of the 1967 expansion teams (Flyers, Penguins, Stars, Blues), and then the Sabres.

This makes sense. I had for some reason forgotten the Oilers weren't a 1967 addition.

[Randall Flagg]

That’s interesting. His comments after a loss sound positive, and after a win, negative.

 

So what’s the philosophy, critique them when they are in a more confident, advantageous mindset?

It'll be interesting to see if this trend continues or not, because it is completely valid for that to normally not be his thing - it is completely and utterly true when you compare this game to Florida/St. Louis. The goals came tonight when we probably didn't deserve them, and didn't come against Florida in particular.

[dudacek]

Is that goal on Reinhart? Kane?

Ray screwed up the call. It was 8 not 9.

Nelson and Reinhart both failed, but it was started by a bad clear from behind the net by (I think) Scandella that really put Sam in a bad spot.

 

 

Whatever messed Sam up early or turned him around recently, he has always had this in him.

It’s more complicated than just this, but he was and is wasted playing with plugs

Edited February 9, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[Thorny]

Ray screwed up the call. It was 8 not 9.

Nelson and Reinhart both failed, but it was started by a bad clear from behind the net by (I think) Scandella that really put Sam in a bad spot.

Oh, thanks, didn’t realize Ray gaffed. Scandella had a few of those today, have to say.

 

Eichel now 17th in league scoring. That’s at 20/21 and on this team.

 

Eichel is something special.

[Doohickie]

I had some coaches like that... where they really only care about one thing... how you play. Scoreboard doesn't matter.

 

He's attacking the game instead of waiting for the game to come to him. Love it.

 

Did you see when he scored?  On the replay you could clearly see his mouth form the words:  WOOOOO!  F### YEAH!

[pi2000]

btw, Eichel's goal tonight makes him the leading goal scorer of all 2015 NHL draftees.  #tankful

Edited February 9, 2018 by pi2000

[PASabreFan]

btw, Eichel's goal tonight makes him the leading goal scorer of all 2015 NHL draftees.  #tankful

Barzal's at Jack's level in year one and the Isles didn't have to be historically bad.

[LTS]

I hope everyone is listending to Jack’s post games lately.

 

He’s like a new man. Sounds like a captain to me.

 

Agreed.  His entire demeanor, on the ice and off the ice, has changed.  He's playing a complete game and you can't see anyone outworking him on the ice.  The post game comments last night were excellent.  He showed that he had paid attention to everything going on in the game.

 

Barzal's at Jack's level in year one and the Isles didn't have to be historically bad.

 

He is?  You think Barzal keeps up this scoring level when other teams don't have to focus on Tavares - Bailey - Lee?  I don't think so.  He's protected right now.  In addition, he'll have to keep this up.  Maybe he can, but I wouldn't say he's at Jack's level.  He reminds me very much of Gaudreau.

[LGR4GM]

Barzal's at Jack's level in year one and the Isles didn't have to be historically bad.

False comparison. Jack entered the NHL at 18. Barzal entered at 20.  Also, teams always adjust and will to Barzal. Barzal BTW should have gone 12 or 13th overall in that draft but 13, 14, 15 that year were Boston picks and Boston was so dumb, they took Zachary Senyshyn over Matthew Barzal. And Brock Boeser went 21, another missed pick by Boston. 

 

Also PA since you don't post in the draft thread much, you knew in 2015 that we didn't need to tank because Matthew Barzal was going to be amazing in 2018?  Every year players in the middle and back of the first emerge as really good players. It is why I think in this draft it is good to have another first. There is going to be a really high quality defender coming out of that back half of round 1. Let's hope our scouts can identify that player and take him.

 

What if the Sabres had drafted Pastrnak, Barzal, Boeser, and how about Josh Norris. All guys who were taken in the back half of drafts.The fun part, NOT ONE TEAM managed to draft all 4 even though quite a few teams could (Boston could have).  Hindsight is 20/20 in the draft with few exceptions, Jack Eichel, MCdavid, Matthews.  Barzal was a great pick for Boston at 13 and they were dumb. Boeser was more valuable IMPO to Lehner at 21. It is all relative and highly dependent on your scouting department. Eichel, wasn't dependent on the scouting department. We got exactly what we thought.

[woods-racer]

Any one touch on Lehner's play ?

 

I thought he played a bad game for him.

 

Loved the game last night, just wish they could put a complete sound team effort together. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So, the Sabres played hard for about 55 minutes.  In those 5 what the heck minutes they gave up a hard earned 3 goal lead.

 

Fortunately, they played the 1 minute it took for the win.  A character building win, IMO.  These guys are starting to get it.  The top players are becoming just that.  I really believe they all will be fine.  The roster still has some pretty big holes, but even the D is starting to put it together.  We do need some better players.

 

That said, I am pretty much resigned to the fact that Kane will be traded.  That's not to say that I like it, or think that it's a good idea.

[Winston]

False comparison. Jack entered the NHL at 18. Barzal entered at 20.  Also, teams always adjust and will to Barzal. Barzal BTW should have gone 12 or 13th overall in that draft but 13, 14, 15 that year were Boston picks and Boston was so dumb, they took Zachary Senyshyn over Matthew Barzal. And Brock Boeser went 21, another missed pick by Boston. 

 

Also PA since you don't post in the draft thread much, you knew in 2015 that we didn't need to tank because Matthew Barzal was going to be amazing in 2018?  Every year players in the middle and back of the first emerge as really good players. It is why I think in this draft it is good to have another first. There is going to be a really high quality defender coming out of that back half of round 1. Let's hope our scouts can identify that player and take him.

 

What if the Sabres had drafted Pastrnak, Barzal, Boeser, and how about Josh Norris. All guys who were taken in the back half of drafts.The fun part, NOT ONE TEAM managed to draft all 4 even though quite a few teams could (Boston could have).  Hindsight is 20/20 in the draft with few exceptions, Jack Eichel, MCdavid, Matthews.  Barzal was a great pick for Boston at 13 and they were dumb. Boeser was more valuable IMPO to Lehner at 21. It is all relative and highly dependent on your scouting department. Eichel, wasn't dependent on the scouting department. We got exactly what we thought.

 

Imagine if Boston went Barzal, Connor, Boesser with those picks. DeBrusk has been solid for them this year, but still. Cleveland Browns-esque. 

[That Aud Smell]

False comparison. Jack entered the NHL at 18. Barzal entered at 20.  Also, teams always adjust and will to Barzal. Barzal BTW should have gone 12 or 13th overall in that draft but 13, 14, 15 that year were Boston picks and Boston was so dumb, they took Zachary Senyshyn over Matthew Barzal. And Brock Boeser went 21, another missed pick by Boston. 

 

Also PA since you don't post in the draft thread much, you knew in 2015 that we didn't need to tank because Matthew Barzal was going to be amazing in 2018?  Every year players in the middle and back of the first emerge as really good players. It is why I think in this draft it is good to have another first. There is going to be a really high quality defender coming out of that back half of round 1. Let's hope our scouts can identify that player and take him.

 

What if the Sabres had drafted Pastrnak, Barzal, Boeser, and how about Josh Norris. All guys who were taken in the back half of drafts.The fun part, NOT ONE TEAM managed to draft all 4 even though quite a few teams could (Boston could have).  Hindsight is 20/20 in the draft with few exceptions, Jack Eichel, MCdavid, Matthews.  Barzal was a great pick for Boston at 13 and they were dumb. Boeser was more valuable IMPO to Lehner at 21. It is all relative and highly dependent on your scouting department. Eichel, wasn't dependent on the scouting department. We got exactly what we thought.

 

[LGR4GM]

He's right, you don't have to tank to get good players. You do however need a very good draft department which the Sabres have not had since idk when. We are bad and needed to tank because for about 5 years we were absolutely terrible at drafting. This is something that looks to be changing. 2016 and 2017 seem to be drafts where Buffalo finally managed to find AT LEAST 2 players from each draft that are impact players. Asplund and Davidsson both look good.  Now you need at least 3 players to be NHL players every 3rd draft. I would say that 2016 is most likely that draft. 2015, Eichel, Guhle. 2016 Nylander, Asplund, PU, 2017 Mittelstadt, Davidsson.  The key is making this a regular occurrence.  Also in those last few drafts there are a few dark horse candidates like Fitzgerald or Laasokonen who could also make the team.  Drafting is the key and you need to get good talent wherever you draft.  For clarification, when I say good talent that makes an impact I mean: Top 9, Top 5 or starting GT.  IMPO the rest are plugs I can pick up anywhere.  

 

Also note that these drafts give us hope but the players listed still have not proven they are good yet. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by SkuggaLiger

[Randall Flagg]

For the ire that PA's comment drew, his point is correct

 

Jack's 17th in league scoring is not worth being historically bad 4 years ago so that we could still be historically bad today

 

People practically guaranteed a deep playoff run by 2019 and we've had 5 seasons ranging from historically bad to bad

Edited February 9, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[sabills]

He's right, you don't have to tank to get good players. You do however need a very good draft department which the Sabres have not had since idk when. We are bad and needed to tank because for about 5 years we were absolutely terrible at drafting. This is something that looks to be changing. 2016 and 2017 seem to be drafts where Buffalo finally managed to find AT LEAST 2 players from each draft that are impact players. Asplund and Davidsson both look good.  Now you need at least 3 players to be NHL players every 3rd draft. I would say that 2016 is most likely that draft. 2015, Eichel, Guhle. 2016 Nylander, Asplund, PU, 2017 Mittelstadt, Davidsson.  The key is making this a regular occurrence.  Also in those last few drafts there are a few dark horse candidates like Fitzgerald or Laasokonen who could also make the team.  Drafting is the key and you need to get good talent wherever you draft.  

 

I took a look at Darcy's drafts the other day. I realise this is an incredibly flawed metric, but in his 14 years in Buffalo Darcy drafted 2 All-Stars. 2.

[LGR4GM]

For the ire that PA's comment drew, his point is correct

 

Jack's 17th in league scoring is not worth being historically bad 4 years ago so that we could still be historically bad today

 

People practically guaranteed a deep playoff run by 2019 and we've had 5 seasons ranging from historically bad to bad

His point is correct. It goes to the larger point of you have to draft well and consistently regardless of draft spot. Which is much harder than picking 1st or 2nd overall for 2 or 3 years. 

[PASabreFan]

I don't think you tank for Jack Eichel. They tanked for McDavid. Terry brought the Otters to Buffalo for a game! Murray's disappointment at not getting him was palpable.

 

Jack is a very nice player who's probably in the middle of a second tier of the best players in the league, with the forecast of climbing those ranks as we head into the meat of his career.

 

Any one touch on Lehner's play ?

 

I thought he played a bad game for him.

 

Loved the game last night, just wish they could put a complete sound team effort together. 

I was texting with an Islander friend of mine who at first thought Lehner was playing so well he might be an option for them. By the end of the evening, not so much. Lehner is the human goalie ink blot test. Last night was classic Lehner. I will repeat: he simply cannot be between the pipes when the games get important.

[That Aud Smell]

For the ire that PA's comment drew, his point is correct

 

Jack's 17th in league scoring is not worth being historically bad 4 years ago so that we could still be historically bad today

 

People practically guaranteed a deep playoff run by 2019 and we've had 5 seasons ranging from historically bad to bad

 

C'mon, man. I don't give a rat's behind what "people" said or guaranteed. The Sabres are terrible -- but it's almost certainly not because they tanked and got Eichel.

 

/Leaves room before tank debate starts anew.

 

I took a look at Darcy's drafts the other day. I realise this is an incredibly flawed metric, but in his 14 years in Buffalo Darcy drafted 2 All-Stars. 2.

 

I'd like to say: DAMN.

 

But then I want to see comparable periods of performance from other NHL FO's.

 

I don't think you tank for Jack Eichel. They tanked for McDavid. Terry brought the Otters to Buffalo for a game! Murray's disappointment at not getting him was palpable.

 

Jack is a very nice player who's probably in the middle of a second tier of the best players in the league, with the forecast of climbing those ranks as we head into the meat of his career.

 

I was texting with an Islander friend of mine who at first thought Lehner was playing so well he might be an option for them. By the end of the evening, not so much. Lehner is the human goalie ink blot test. Last night was classic Lehner. I will repeat: he simply cannot be between the pipes when the games get important.

 

Good post. I do especially agree with the bolded.

[That Aud Smell]

I took a look at Darcy's drafts the other day. I realise this is an incredibly flawed metric, but in his 14 years in Buffalo Darcy drafted 2 All-Stars. 2.

 

A follow-up: I count Darcy as having drafted Vanek, Miller, Campbell, and Pominville.

 

Wait - Campbell was Muckler, I believe.

 

Anyhoo - here's a rough list of notable Bruin draft picks during the same period of time (1998-2013 -- I am not sure if they were all all-stars at some point, also I realize the Bruins likely had different GMs during this time):

 

Nick Boynton

Bergeron

Krejci

Versteeg

Kessel

Lucic

Marchand

Seguin

Hamilton

 

Not a murderer's row, but there's enough there. Also, this list omits Thornton (1997) and Pastrnak (2014).

[Randall Flagg]

C'mon, man. I don't give a rat's behind what "people" said or guaranteed. The Sabres are terrible -- but it's almost certainly not because they tanked and got Eichel.

 

/Leaves room before tank debate starts anew.

 

 

I'd like to say: DAMN.

 

But then I want to see comparable periods of performance from other NHL FO's.

 

 

Good post. I do especially agree with the bolded.

I'll abide your wishes and end my contributions with the fact that I disagree with this, because I think our lack of depth still has a lot to do with the nuclear-bombing of our roster to do so. 

[woods-racer]

I'll abide your wishes and end my contributions with the fact that I disagree with this, because I think our lack of depth still has a lot to do with the nuclear-bombing of our roster to do so. 

 

The nuclear bombing AND the get good fast sale of draft picks/prospects by GMTM for players that didn't fit today's game.

 

The whole package is why we are where we are. The tank only works with a good front office staff. It was only a bad plan because we didn't have the staff in place to make it work. 

 

Edit. Add

 

We where doomed to suck because our front office sucked, no matter what plan was used.

Edited February 9, 2018 by skogslopp