WTF is wrong with this team?

[Randall Flagg]

Losing has been accepted fo so long here.

By who? Who is enjoying this? Nobody likes this. What does "not accepting it" look like, on a hockey forum, then? What does "not accepting it" on a hockey forum accomplish in the real world that we are not getting done by "accepting it" on a forum?

[PASabreFan]

Randall, you need to re-read the thread about being in last place on October 27. It was about how tight the division was. The Sabres weren't under .500. They had won six of eight games to that point.

 

IMHO it's very bad form here to throw posts from 12 years ago in anyone's face.

 

Some people just seem to have a problem with "calling it like it is." You'll find negative threads about 2006-2007, too. It's 82 games and there's plenty of fodder. Historical fact: neither team was good enough to even get to the final, let alone win it.

 

As for Jacque's comment, I doubt he was referring to Internet posters.

 

Other than that, I liked the post. It had a nice beat and I could dance to it. (No way you will get that reference. Maybe Taro.)

[Randall Flagg]

Randall, you need to re-read the thread about being in last place on October 27. It was about how tight the division was. The Sabres weren't under .500. They had won six of eight games to that point.

 

IMHO it's very bad form here to throw posts from 12 years ago in anyone's face.

 

Some people just seem to have a problem with "calling it like it is." You'll find negative threads about 2006-2007, too. It's 82 games and there's plenty of fodder. Historical fact: neither team was good enough to even get to the final, let alone win it.

 

As for Jacque's comment, I doubt he was referring to Internet posters.

 

Other than that, I liked the post. It had a nice beat and I could dance to it. (No way you will get that reference. Maybe Taro.)

My bad. I had about eight threads quoted and threw out a bunch because they didn't actually illustrate what I thought, and I missed that one. I was looking for a particular tone, obviously, to show that it was there.

 

I'm not throwing anyone's posts in their faces, those posters don't exist here anymore. I'm showing that I think a lot of the bad attitude that some people literally fling into seven threads in a row, with no differing content, will not change when the team gets good, because of how some posters like to be. GA talked about how those teams gave effort without fail and with one click I was immediately staring at a thread about how that very team never consistently brings effort. Not because I believe that team didn't give effort. But there will always be people complaining about effort because hockey  teams don't win all 82 games, it isn't possible. And I have a good idea who those posters will be, when the team is finally good again, based on clicking through what amounts to be the same thread seven times in a row. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[Taro T]

Randall, you need to re-read the thread about being in last place on October 27. It was about how tight the division was. The Sabres weren't under .500. They had won six of eight games to that point.

 

IMHO it's very bad form here to throw posts from 12 years ago in anyone's face.

 

Some people just seem to have a problem with "calling it like it is." You'll find negative threads about 2006-2007, too. It's 82 games and there's plenty of fodder. Historical fact: neither team was good enough to even get to the final, let alone win it.

 

As for Jacque's comment, I doubt he was referring to Internet posters.

 

Other than that, I liked the post. It had a nice beat and I could dance to it. (No way you will get that reference. Maybe Taro.)

Thanks for that, Denny Tarrio (sp?). My posts that season looked pretty prescient. Other than not expecting Tallinder to come around. :doh:

 

Also, great to see an old Hopeless post. After he moved to Japan we never got him back. :(

 

Even w/ DeLuca railing on Briere (& then loving him for a 1/2 season, then calling him B-Rod after his arbitration hearing) & you railing on the Hull goal being legit, the board was a fun place back then. Todd f###ing Kaz. :w00t: Todd f###ing Kaz.

[PASabreFan]

My bad. I had about eight threads quoted and threw out a bunch because they didn't actually illustrate what I thought, and I missed that one. I was looking for a particular tone, obviously, to show that it was there.

 

I'm not throwing anyone's posts in their faces, those posters don't exist here anymore. I'm showing that I think a lot of the bad attitude that some people literally fling into seven threads in a row, with no differing content, will not change when the team gets good, because of how some posters like to be. GA talked about how those teams gave effort without fail and with one click I was immediately staring at a thread about how that very team never consistently brings effort. Not because I believe that team didn't give effort. But there will always be people complaining about effort because hockey  teams don't win all 82 games, it isn't possible. And I have a good idea who those posters will be, when the team is finally good again, based on clicking through what amounts to be the same thread seven times in a row. 

Not throwing old posts in people's faces? What fun is that?! I looked at one other thread you linked. I'm not even sure saber61 was a real person. The post seemed bot-ish. So you did seem to cherrypick some bad ones. Maybe I'm tired. I don't see what the point of criticizing fellow fans' negativity is, in the context of another bad season in stretch of many bad seasons in a row.

 

It's like how Terry on the day he took over criticized the News for not being more positive, because he thought part of the reason that team was quitting (it wasn't) was coming from the paper's negativity, and if only they would be more positive, the team would do better. Harrington told Terry to his face how it works. When you're winning, you get good press. He cited the example of the playoff runs of 06 and 07 which saw the News printing whole sections, player posters etc.

Edited October 19, 2017 by PASabreFan

[Taro T]

Not throwing old posts in people's faces? What fun is that?! I looked at one other thread you linked. I'm not even sure saber61 was a real person. The post seemed bot-ish. So you did seem to cherrypick some bad ones. Maybe I'm tired. I don't see what the point of criticizing fellow fans' negativity is, in the context of another bad season in stretch of many bad seasons in a row.

 

It's like how Terry on the day he took over criticized the News for not being more positive, because he thought part of the reason that team was quitting (it wasn't) was coming from the paper's negativity, and if only they would be more positive, the team would do better. Harrington told Terry to his face how it works. When you're winning, you get good press. He cited the example of the playoff runs of 06 and 07 which saw the News printing whole sections, player posters etc.

The Snooze doesn't print player posters anymore? Really? They did that for the Bills & Sabres (& probably the Braves while they were here) in the '70's, '80's, & '90's. That stopped after the century changed? Did not know that. Knew they stopped printing the 'Squish the Fish' & 'Pluck the Falcons' placards sometime in the last 10 or so years. Didn't know the posters were gone as well. Edited October 19, 2017 by Taro T

[Randall Flagg]

Not throwing old posts in people's faces? What fun is that?! I looked at one other thread you linked. I'm not even sure saber61 was a real person. The post seemed bot-ish. So you did seem to cherrypick some bad ones. Maybe I'm tired. I don't see what the point of criticizing fellow fans' negativity is, in the context of another bad season in stretch of many bad seasons in a row.

 

It's like how Terry on the day he took over criticized the News for not being more positive, because he thought part of the reason that team was quitting (it wasn't) was coming from the paper's negativity, and if only they would be more positive, the team would do better. Harrington told Terry to his face how it works. When you're winning, you get good press. He cited the example of the playoff runs of 06 and 07 which saw the News printing whole sections, player posters etc.

I expect this board to be negative in a time like this, and I contribute to it, but when all threads are invaded with the same posts by the same posters, it gets to be a little much - everyone read it the first three times, right? I like to learn from posters and get news here and when the seven threads in the row have the same posts from the same guy, for two or three posters, it gets harder to find that stuff. 

 

And I'm just finding things to complain about to procrastinate, there's that too. This board is still da best. 

 

Also I still have all of those from that season hanging in my room back home. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[PASabreFan]

The Snooze doesn't print player posters anymore? Really? They did that for the Bills & Sabres (& probably the Braves while they were here) in the '70's, '80's, & '90's. That stopped after the century changed? Did not know that. Knew they stopped printing the 'Squish the Fish' & 'Pluck the Falcons' placards sometime in the last 10 or so years. Didn't know the posters were gone as well.

Oh. I have no idea. I was referring to the player photo pages they printed during those playoff runs.

I expect this board to be negative in a time like this, and I contribute to it, but when all threads are invaded with the same posts by the same posters, it gets to be a little much - everyone read it the first three times, right? I like to learn from posters and get news here and when the seven threads in the row have the same posts from the same guy, for two or three posters, it gets harder to find that stuff. 

 

And I'm just finding things to complain about to procrastinate, there's that too. This board is still da best. 

 

Also I still have all of those from that season hanging in my room back home. 

Methinks someone is a bee in your bonnet and you won't say who. Or, a wad in your panty.

[Taro T]

Oh. I have no idea. I was referring to the player photo pages they printed during those playoff runs.

Fair enough. Thought you were talking about the 1/week posters they printed during the season. :oops:

[Randall Flagg]

Oh. I have no idea. I was referring to the player photo pages they printed during those playoff runs.

Methinks someone is a bee in your bonnet and you won't say who. Or, a wad in your panty.

Perhaps. It's pretty dumb for me to post like that though so I'll cut it out. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think of myself as a realist.  I don't expect the team to win 82 games, I just think they should try to win 82 games.  I don't see that. 

 

However, I'm also very clear that it isn't all on the players.  I was one of the chief voices last year that I thought the roster wasn't adequate last season despite so many arguing that the system was the problem.  To many stretch passes.  I also argued that TM was the architect of the problem with the franchise from poor drafting, to poor asset management, to poor contract and cap management.  Ultimately TP agreed with both sides and tossed TM, DD and half the roster to the curb. 

 

I also have been one of the biggest cheerleaders about the changes on the D group this off-season (which admittedly haven't lived up to my and everyone's hopes yet) and, as seen on my avatar, I am huge Housley supporter.  I have also said I think the turnaround isn't just around the corner.  Still to much dead weight on the roster.  

 

However if this team turns the corner this season, I'll be thrilled and will happily eat crow.  I like mine with a side of Chef's spaghetti and meatballs.

 

Randall, so what are we going to do about the Butcher character?

Edited October 19, 2017 by GASabresFan

[Randall Flagg]

I think of myself as a realist.  I don't expect the team to win 82 games, I just think they should try to win 82 games.  I don't see that. 

 

However, I'm also very clear that it isn't all on the players.  I was one of the chief voices last year that I thought the roster wasn't adequate last season despite so many arguing that the system was the problem.  To many stretch passes.  I also argued that TM was the architect of the problem with the franchise from poor drafting, to poor asset management, to poor contract and cap management.  Ultimately TP agreed with both sides and tossed TM, DD and half the roster to the curb. 

 

I also have been one of the biggest cheerleaders about the changes on the D group this off-season (which admittedly haven't lived up to my and everyone's hopes yet) and, as seen on my avatar, I am huge Housley supporter.  I have also said I think the turnaround isn't just around the corner.  Still to much dead weight on the roster.  

 

However if this team turns the corner this season, I'll be thrilled and will happily eat crow.  I like mine with a side of Chef's spaghetti and meatballs.

 

Randall, so what are we going to do about the Butcher character?

I want to reiterate that I don't have any problems with your posts, even though I was using one as an example, because it might seem like I'm referring to you at first glance, but I'm not :P 

 

Did we actually have an avatar bet/charity bet or something? I can't remember. But if you're just saying in general, then yeah it sucks we aren't getting that production here like we could have. I don't think he maintains this level obviously, but he's looking to be a nice piece, and I had better be wary about leaning heavily on what Avs fans think next time (they claimed he wasn't a top 10 or even 15 prospect of theirs)

[GASabresIUFAN]

I watched a lot of UD hockey last year.  My cable package includes all these fox sports channels and they often had good college hockey games.  In fact, a week from Friday UND plays Minn on Fox.  Anyway, I just loved what I saw from Butcher.  His leadership on the ice, and smart plays with the made him look a step ahead of his opponents.  For the Avs to draft a local kid who played college hockey locally and then simply throw him to the curb was amongst the dumbest management decisions I've seen in years.

 

I think we had an avatar bet, but who cares.  I wish not only had I been rigth, but that he signed here. We could use the puck skills.  I do agree with you that he won't keep up the current pace.  Kane won't either, but I'll be surprised with the improved team in NJ that he doesn't put up 35-40 pts. 

 

By the way: Saw an interview with Nauseting Kadri of the Loafs and he said that HCMB has them play 5 game blocks.  That's 16 blocks.  If you can win 12 of the 16 blocks then you are a playoff contender.  It also is a great way to put a bad stretch behind you.

 

The Sabres went 0-4-1 in block 1, but are 1-0-1 in block 2 with crappy Van next.

Edited October 19, 2017 by GASabresFan

[LTS]

Perhaps. It's pretty dumb for me to post like that though so I'll cut it out. 

 

It's not dumb.  Let's be real here.  The same posters spew the same negativity about the same things in every thread.  The situation sucks, we all agree on that.  No one wants the Sabres in this position.  However, the continual negativity about the situation just sucks the energy out of me.  I don't have the will to fight it anymore.  

 

I feel like we're resigned to a bunch of people just bitching and moaning about the situation rather than looking for positives.  If it sucks and all you have left is to bitch about the players, etc. then take a break. Why bury yourself under so much negativity?

 

I know, I know, it's every posters right to share their opinion.  It doesn't mean it doesn't wear on other people.  I'm to the breaking point personally.  Perhaps because this season I have been checking the forum more often than I have in the past so multiple times a day I log in and see the negativity.  It's a negative situation but that doesn't mean it needs to be compounded with more negativity in posting.  I don't want to use examples because honestly I don't want to call anyone out right now, I don't have the energy to have that battle.

 

However, people are here taking shots at this or that and I all I can think is.. "This team is this team.  The people on it are not changing, not as fast as you would like anyway. If you just want to sit here and complain about it day in and day out then that's being negative.  Stop back when something changes."  I feel like I am at work when people just can't stop bitching about the underlying culture issues day in and day out.  It's an absolute drain of energy and it does nothing to change anything except create an even more negative atmosphere.

 

Perhaps I used the forum as a way to stave off the garbage at work... and since the forum hasn't been the place I hoped it's compounding the problem... who knows.  (welcome to my in post self-realization moment).

 

I watched a lot of UD hockey last year.  My cable package includes all these fox sports channels and they often had good college hockey games.  In fact, a week from Friday UND plays Minn on Fox.  Anyway, I just loved what I saw from Butcher.  His leadership on the ice, and smart plays with the made him look a step ahead of his opponents.  For the Avs to draft a local kid who played college hockey locally and then simply throw him to the curb was amongst the dumbest management decisions I've seen in years.

 

I think we had an avatar bet, but who cares.  I wish not only had I been rigth, but that he signed here. We could use the puck skills.  I do agree with you that he won't keep up the current pace.  Kane won't either, but I'll be surprised with the improved team in NJ that he doesn't put up 35-40 pts. 

 

By the way: Saw an interview with Nauseting Kadri of the Loafs and he said that HCMB has them play 5 game blocks.  That's 16 blocks.  If you can win 12 of the 16 blocks then you are a playoff contender.  It also is a great way to put a bad stretch behind you.

 

The Sabres went 0-4-1 in block 1, but are 1-0-1 in block 2 with crappy Van next.

 

So all this time Mike Babcock's key to coaching was to use EASports NHL series feedback system?  The coach evaluates you in 5 game blocks.

 

Who knew.

[SwampD]

[dudacek]

I like hockey, the forum, Randall, GA, LTS and the Sabres.

 

Swamp? He's a damn fine bassist.????

Edited October 19, 2017 by dudacek

[shrader]

Also, great to see an old Hopeless post. After he moved to Japan we never got him back. :(

 

 

Is that what happened to him?  I must have missed that, but always wondered why he disappeared.

 

Not throwing old posts in people's faces? What fun is that?! I looked at one other thread you linked. I'm not even sure saber61 was a real person. The post seemed bot-ish.

 

I could never read a thing from that guy.  I would spend the entire post wondering when he would fix his damn username.

[matter2003]

Watching this team is like listening to someone scrape nails on a chalkboard. Nothing comes easy. Making a simple crisp tape to tape pass is near impossible. The puck ends up behind where the player has to stop and turn around, or misses him or goes directly to the other team. I mean this is getting really painful to watch how bad this team is at simple fundamental plays that other teams make in their sleep without thinking about.

 

If I was Housley I would make practice just about fundamentals until they started doing them properly in the game and tell them they havent earned the right to practice anything else yet.

 

You want to not be able to do stuff that you learn in Pre-Wee hockey? Fine we will practice like we are in Pre-Wee hockey. You make a bad pass? Cool. You sit there and watch while every other player skates a lap. Because at this point nothing else really matters until they can start doing fundamental things right. They give themselves no chances in these games playing the way they are right now.

Edited October 21, 2017 by matter2003

[shotgunner]

Watching this team is like listening to someone scrape nails on a chalkboard. Nothing comes easy. Making a simple crisp tape to tape pass is near impossible. The puck ends up behind where the player has to stop and turn around, or misses him or goes directly to the other team. I mean this is getting really painful to watch how bad this team is at simple fundamental plays that other teams make in their sleep without thinking about.

 

If I was Housley I would make practice just about fundamentals until they started doing them properly in the game and tell them they havent earned the right to practice anything else yet.

 

You want to not be able to do stuff that you learn in Pre-Wee hockey? Fine we will practice like we are in Pre-Wee hockey. You make a bad pass? Cool. You sit there and watch while every other player skates a lap. Because at this point nothing else really matters until they can start doing fundamental things right. They give themselves no chances in these games playing the way they are right now.

 

Yeah, what a terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad effort.

 

Not only did everyone look bad and out of place, but also slow and lazy. You would think we were 65 games in and already eliminated.

 

I really hope the team "comes around" as the year progresses, but if it doesn't happen soon it will be too little, too late. Plus being slow and lazy is not generally something that rebounds well.

[Crusader1969]

This is an easy one :

 

Lack of talent - plain and simple

 

Bottom 2 lines are terrible. 4th line is consistently stuck in their own end, 3rd line brings absolutely nothing.

On D - Tennyson is an AHLer, Beaulieu is constantly making bad decisions or turning the puck over

The team has zero depth. Guys who should be in press box are in the line-up, there isn't competition for jobs

 

I don't think it's lack of effort , it's they just aren't good enough especially to play housleys system

Bylsmas ultra conservative system would probably be better for the current roster but long term the team will be better off with Phil behind the bench. He just needs to horses to play

 

Bottom line: long and frustrating season ahead.

[calti]

This is an easy one :

 

Lack of talent - plain and simple

 

Bottom 2 lines are terrible. 4th line is consistently stuck in their own end, 3rd line brings absolutely nothing.

On D - Tennyson is an AHLer, Beaulieu is constantly making bad decisions or turning the puck over

The team has zero depth. Guys who should be in press box are in the line-up, there isn't competition for jobs

 

I don't think it's lack of effort , it's they just aren't good enough especially to play housleys system

Bylsmas ultra conservative system would probably be better for the current roster but long term the team will be better off with Phil behind the bench. He just needs to horses to play

 

Bottom line: long and frustrating season ahead.

 

This is an easy one :

 

Lack of talent - plain and simple

 

Bottom 2 lines are terrible. 4th line is consistently stuck in their own end, 3rd line brings absolutely nothing.

On D - Tennyson is an AHLer, Beaulieu is constantly making bad decisions or turning the puck over

The team has zero depth. Guys who should be in press box are in the line-up, there isn't competition for jobs

 

I don't think it's lack of effort , it's they just aren't good enough especially to play housleys system

Bylsmas ultra conservative system would probably be better for the current roster but long term the team will be better off with Phil behind the bench. He just needs to horses to play

 

Bottom line: long and frustrating season ahead.

 

 

This is an easy one :

 

Lack of talent - plain and simple

 

Bottom 2 lines are terrible. 4th line is consistently stuck in their own end, 3rd line brings absolutely nothing.

On D - Tennyson is an AHLer, Beaulieu is constantly making bad decisions or turning the puck over

The team has zero depth. Guys who should be in press box are in the line-up, there isn't competition for jobs

 

I don't think it's lack of effort , it's they just aren't good enough especially to play housleys system

Bylsmas ultra conservative system would probably be better for the current roster but long term the team will be better off with Phil behind the bench. He just needs to horses to play

 

Bottom line: long and frustrating season ahead.

 

Sometimes coaches have to be gone until you appreciate what they were trying to do with what they had to work with...

[SwampD]

It's always darkest before the dawn.

[mjd1001]

I think this team will 'turn things around' this year....the problem is, how far out if it will they be when they do?  They have 4 points now...it is reasonable to think if they can 'play slightly under .500' until Dec 1, they will start December with 18 points. They have to play better than they are to even get to that point though.

 

But even if they do that...that would give them 18 points in 25 games...meaning to reach 95 points they would need 77 points in 57 games (a 110 point pace).

 

So, while it still is early, if they don't turn things around fast they are likely to miss the playoffs again.  I think they will turn things around, but not fast enough.

 

-O'Reilly, Okposo, Reinhart, Moulson, are too slow for todays NHL.  They are not going to keep up with the play in the neutral zone. They are all overpaid because of this. BUT, that doesn't mean they are a total waste on this team.  If, IF, they system is something that isn't second nature....maybe those players are taking a half second too long to think instead of reacting.....add that to the fact that their slow skating speed puts them a half second behind the faster players, and it is a problem.  Now, once they get used to the coaching and those decisions are instinct instead of thought, the reaction to being where they need to be will be immediate and they will 'keep up' better.

 

You can get to the same place as a faster player if you get that fraction of a second head start. That is how O'Reilly, Reinhart, and Okposo will keep up in this league...they aren't there yet, but I think (hope) they will be.

 

-D-partners need some time to get used to each other. From many people who have played the game, I always hear there are a LOT less mistakes and it is easier to control the puck when you know where your D-partner will be and what he will do.  Not only are most of the D-men on this team not used to being partners...they are new to playing on the same team with each other.  Once they get some time and practice together (20-30 games) 20-30% of those 'small' mistakes will be reduced. Pucks now thrown into an empty corner or along the boards with no-one there will instead be passed to a teamate.

 

Put both of those things together, and I think it makes this team at least .500, if not better. It just sucks having to wait for all of that to come together.

 

I really do think O'Reilly and Okposo are not going to be the players they were in the past...simply because the league has gotten faster and their 'reaction time' can only make up for so much of their lack of speed.  If there were any 'takers' in the trade market for either with a decent offer, I'd make it.  Seeing how that isn't likely, they will make do but don't expect much more from them than being a good, but slow' third line on a winning team. 

 

Team speed is critical in todays NHL, but there are 3 parts of it. 1.) Skating speed.  2.) reaction time.  3.) effort.  How much of all 3 of those does each player on this team have? I think the reason why Evander Kane looks so good now is he has all three, great skating speed, ZERO reaction time because he just 'goes', and great effort.

Edited October 21, 2017 by mjd1001

[qwksndmonster]

It's always darkest before the dawn.

<3

[7+6=13]

So to go back to the original question, how about a one word answer: lazy. 

 

To me this is a ridiculous post and a lack of effort or maturity on your part.  The team played hard last night. 

 

They make a few critical errors each game and it has cost them games.  They've gotten beaten bad in 2 games but they've been right there in the rest and those errors cost them.