Trade Ullmark for a Defenseman?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Before anyone freaks out hear me out.  I'm not saying today or tomorrow, but possibly by the trade deadline, especially if we are in contention.

 

Facts:

1) At season's end Lehner, 25 (RFA), Nilsson, 26 (UFA) and Ullmark, 23 (RFA) will all be free agents. Kasdorf, 24, will have one year left on his ELC.

 

2)  We are going to have to make at least one goalie under contract or RFA available in the expansion draft.  Kasdorf is exempt and Ullmark probably is as well.

 

3) If Lehner plays most of the season as he did last night, GMTM will re-sign for at least 5 years.  

 

4) The Sabres already have 49 mill in contracts for 15 players in 2017-18, but with no goaltenders.  In addition to the 2 RFA goalies, RFA's include Big Z, Larsson, & Foligno.  Key UFA's include Gionta and Kulikov.

 

5) Franson and Gorges are too slow for today's NHL and we have no one in the pipeline really ready for the NHL, Guhle is probably the closest, but that is no sure thing.

 

6) Teams across the NHL, like AZ and Car have no solid NHL goalies and not much in the pipeline.

 

7) Cal Petersen, 22, is probably our best NHL goalie prospect and he'll likely be signed to a pro contract after this college season, his 3rd at ND.

 

What does this all mean?  

a) I think GMTM will re-sign both NHL goalies for next season, meaning Ullmark is likely the odd man out (even if re-signed).  If GMTM re-signs Lehner for 5 years, this means that Ullmark is probably blocked from earning No. 1 job here until he'd be 28. 

 

b) Signing Nilsson gives someone GMTM can expose in the draft who'll unlikely be chosen.

 

c) we need more young D in the pipeline and more speedy D in the NHL.

 

d) Ullmark is back on his game ytd and likely has some good trade value.

 

e) When Petersen is signed, odds are the GMTM wants him in the AHL in 2017-18.  If so, that means Ullmark, Kasdorf with Petersen will all be fighting for the AHL jobs.

 

Bottomline: So many teams are looking for quality goaltending help, especially guys that are young, capable and still very cap friendly (and expansion draft exempt)  The Sabres are desperate for NHL quality D now and even more so next season especially with Franson and more importantly Kulikov are UFAs.  My suggestion is re-sign Nilsson and Lehner and then trade Ullmark to Ana or Car (or others) and get one of their near NHL ready young D in return.  Ana can afford to part with Montour for example.  They need a backup for Gibson and need cap savings for next season.  Carolina, Dallas, and Arizona, could all use young help as well.   With Ullmark traded, Petersen and Kasdorf can compete with top AHL G next season and we also still have Johansson in the pipeline.  

Edited November 1, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[Doohickie]

I just want to watch games.

[LGR4GM]

Ullmark would need to have a really good season to be worth a middling young D prospect.

Edited November 1, 2016 by LGR4GM

[Huckleberry]

no ?  I think we are pretty much set with Lehner, but I want Ullmark as a back up no matter what.

Rather just dump Kasdorf tbfh.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Huckleberry

[inkman]

Ullmark would need to have a really good season to be worth a middling young D prospect.

Yeah he would have to be a part of a package.

[HisDudeness]

Keeping Ullmark keeps MODO...he's worth every penny!

[pi2000]

Ullmark is eligible for the expansion draft. That said I don't think he's at risk of getting picked.

 

I'd keep him around, he's show flashes of brilliance. If Lehner pans out and stays healthy then that might make him expendable, but not sure how much you'd get in return at this point.

 

And I'm not so high on Petersen. He's been very good in college, but they dont usually make an impression in the NHL. I've watched some ND games this season and he had a very good defensive team in front of him, I think he's more a product of the system than a stud prospect.

Edited November 1, 2016 by pi2000

[GASabresIUFAN]

Ullmark is eligible for the expansion draft. That said I don't think he's at risk of getting picked.

 

I'd keep him around, he's show flashes of brilliance. If Lehner pans out and stays healthy then that might make him expendable, but not sure how much you'd get in return at this point.

 

And I'm not so high on Petersen. He's been very good in college, but they dont usually make an impression in the NHL. I've watched some ND games this season and he had a very good defensive team in front of him, I think he's more a product of the system than a stud prospect.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-likes-ncaa-goaltending/c-280059700

 

Ryan Miller, Cory Schneider, Talbot, plus top prospects Hellebuyck and Demko are just some of the NCAA goalies I can think of off the top of my head.  Former UND goalie McIntrye has recently passed Subban on the Bruins dept chart.

 

Since we can only protect one goalie and assuming we re-sign Lehner, then this further bolsters my argument to trade him.  Why lose him for nothing, or have to make a side deal to keep him.  Sounds like a waste of assets either way.  I do think there is a good chance he would be selected.  LV must select three goalies.  Odd are that 2 will be NHL guys and one is likely to be a good prospect made available like Ullmark.  In addition, who of value will Buffalo make available?  All our best players (McCabe, Risto, ROR, Okposo, Jack, Sam, Lehner) will be protected or exempt.  Guys who will be available, especially if we go the 1, 3, 7 route will be very limited.  Guys like Gorges, and Deslauriers are who they may have to pick from here.

 

Right now our protected list probably looks something like this

G - Lehner

D - McCabe, Risto, Bogosian

F - ROR, Okposo, Larsson, Ennis, Kane, Girgensons and Foligno.  

 

If this is the list, our available players are Moulson, Gorges, and Deslauriers, plus prospects Ullmark and Carrier.  From this list who are you taking?  Are you really going to take Moulson and his big contract without a top tier center for him to play with? I doubt it.  That leaves Gorges or Ullmark, I'm taking Ullmark. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Keeping Ullmark keeps MODO...he's worth every penny!

 

Outstanding first post effort here.

 

Welcome!!

[LGR4GM]

You don't lose Ullmark for nothing. He goes and it means everyone else is safe. Why bother protecting a goalie prospect? You can't trade him for anything because he has basically no value.

 

If I'm LV I'm taking Moulson. Ullmark isn't even on the list and if we lose him oh well.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-likes-ncaa-goaltending/c-280059700

 

Ryan Miller, Cory Schneider, Talbot, plus top prospects Hellebuyck and Demko are just some of the NCAA goalies I can think of off the top of my head. Former UND goalie McIntrye has recently passed Subban on the Bruins dept chart.

 

Since we can only protect one goalie and assuming we re-sign Lehner, then this further bolsters my argument to trade him. Why lose him for nothing, or have to make a side deal to keep him. Sounds like a waste of assets either way. I do think there is a good chance he would be selected. LV must select three goalies. Odd are that 2 will be NHL guys and one is likely to be a good prospect made available like Ullmark. In addition, who of value will Buffalo make available? All our best players (McCabe, Risto, ROR, Okposo, Jack, Sam, Lehner) will be protected or exempt. Guys who will be available, especially if we go the 1, 3, 7 route will be very limited. Guys like Gorges, and Deslauriers are who they may have to pick from here.

 

Right now our protected list probably looks something like this

G - Lehner

D - McCabe, Risto, Bogosian

F - ROR, Okposo, Larsson, Ennis, Kane, Girgensons and Foligno.

 

If this is the list, our available players are Moulson, Gorges, and Deslauriers, plus prospects Ullmark and Carrier. From this list who are you taking? Are you really going to take Moulson and his big contract without a top tier center for him to play with? I doubt it. That leaves Gorges or Ullmark, I'm taking Ullmark.

This argument is awful actually. He's not worth anything. We will lose someone. And yes Moulson and his contract is exactly why an expansion team takes him. They'll need salary.

That said if I can ditch Ullmark and kkeep Moulson, I keep Moulson.

 

Further, what do you think Ullmark is worth?

Edited November 1, 2016 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

We keep Ullmark at all costs, so this board can keep MODO.

Edit: HisDudeness knows what's up!

[LGR4GM]

Why? We have Olofsson and Possler still from MoDo

[JohnRobertEichel]

You don't lose Ullmark for nothing. He goes and it means everyone else is safe. Why bother protecting a goalie prospect? You can't trade him for anything because he has basically no value.

 

If I'm LV I'm taking Moulson. Ullmark isn't even on the list and if we lose him oh well.

This argument is awful actually. He's not worth anything. We will lose someone. And yes Moulson and his contract is exactly why an expansion team takes him. They'll need salary.

That said if I can ditch Ullmark and kkeep Moulson, I keep Moulson.

 

Further, what do you think Ullmark is worth?

 

Well I at least think he 100% nailed the protected player list. And whether Las Vegas would prefer Moulson or Gorges over Ullmark depends greatly on what else is out there for Las Vegas to take during the expansion draft. I don't personally think Ullmark will amount to anything special, so I won't cry if we lose any of Ullmark, Gorges, Moulson, Deslauriers, or Carrier. But I hope Las Vegas ends up picking Moulson since we could really use his $5 million salary instead for Eichel and Reinhart in 2 years.

[pi2000]

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-likes-ncaa-goaltending/c-280059700

 

Ryan Miller, Cory Schneider, Talbot, plus top prospects Hellebuyck and Demko are just some of the NCAA goalies I can think of off the top of my head. Former UND goalie McIntrye has recently passed Subban on the Bruins dept chart.

 

Since we can only protect one goalie and assuming we re-sign Lehner, then this further bolsters my argument to trade him. Why lose him for nothing, or have to make a side deal to keep him. Sounds like a waste of assets either way. I do think there is a good chance he would be selected. LV must select three goalies. Odd are that 2 will be NHL guys and one is likely to be a good prospect made available like Ullmark. In addition, who of value will Buffalo make available? All our best players (McCabe, Risto, ROR, Okposo, Jack, Sam, Lehner) will be protected or exempt. Guys who will be available, especially if we go the 1, 3, 7 route will be very limited. Guys like Gorges, and Deslauriers are who they may have to pick from here.

 

Right now our protected list probably looks something like this

G - Lehner

D - McCabe, Risto, Bogosian

F - ROR, Okposo, Larsson, Ennis, Kane, Girgensons and Foligno.

 

If this is the list, our available players are Moulson, Gorges, and Deslauriers, plus prospects Ullmark and Carrier. From this list who are you taking? Are you really going to take Moulson and his big contract without a top tier center for him to play with? I doubt it. That leaves Gorges or Ullmark, I'm taking Ullmark.

So much is going to chabge between now and the expansion draft that I don't feel any argument here will be fruitful.

 

That said, if they only protect 3 D, then one of Kulikov or Bogosian will be available and that would likely be LVs pick... which saves Ullmark.

 

If you protect 4 D, and O'Reilly, Okposo, and Larsson, then you can only protect one of...

 

Ennis

Kane

Moulson

Girgensons

 

...in that scenario Ullmark is safe as well.

 

Worst case Nillson signs an extension, then you have a 3 way battle in Roch between Kasdorf, Ullmark and Petersen. I'd be OK with that, competition is a good thing.

Edited November 1, 2016 by pi2000

[GASabresIUFAN]

Kulikov is an UFA. He is not going to be protected. He controls where he plays next season so no need to waste a protection slot on him. LV has to convince him to come there during a one week period before the draft. He is young and in his prime he isn't going to sign in LV.

 

Furthermore, if he continues to produce at current levels, we aren't going to re-sign either.

 

The issue is more then avoiding losing Ullmark to expansion, it's more about trading an asset that may not have a huge future in Buffalo for someone who might.

[LGR4GM]

We are definitely re-signing Kulikov. If he continues to produce at current levels, lol. We have 3 top 4 defenders with Bogo out and no one in the pipeline. He's solid defensively and is the best passer. Idc if he gets 2g and 8a this season, I sign him.

 

Ps, Ullmark isn't worth much. Again give me what you think his value is?

[WildCard]

The only reason we don't re-sign is Kulikov is if he wants to leave

[beerme1]

Kulikov is an UFA. He is not going to be protected. He controls where he plays next season so no need to waste a protection slot on him. LV has to convince him to come there during a one week period before the draft. He is young and in his prime he isn't going to sign in LV.

 

Furthermore, if he continues to produce at current levels, we aren't going to re-sign either.

 

 

 

You may be right. But he wont be here at the expansion draft then if he's looking for so much that we won't re sign him. He would be traded at the deadline to the highest bidder. I don't want that I like him enough to keep him. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[North Buffalo]

If Kulikov keeps playing the way he did tonight... I would guess its Bogo that gets moved and or Gorges.... I don't mind the idea of moving Ullmark for a defensive prospect at this point... It should be interesting.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't know what he is worth. I don't make thatdecision. However, as I look around the NHL and see guys like Hutchinson in Wpg or Dominge in Az, I realize that there is a quality goalie shortage in the NHL, especially at reasonable salary levels. If I had to guess, especially if GMTM finds a team that could lose a D to expansion, he might be able to do a one for one deal or Ullmark plus a pick for a 5/6 D.

 

PS Kulikov has ZERO pts in 8 games. None, despite PP time. While he has been decent defensively, he was brought here to add at both ends of the ice. He makes $4 mill this season (or the same as Cam Fowler). I'm not paying him that next season for this kind of production. There are better stay at home guys for that price.

Edited November 2, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

Idk if there is a quality GT shortage in the NHL. There is on bad teams for sure. The issue I have with what you are suggesting is that Linus Ullmark is not a quality NHL GT. He might be a quality AHL goaltender or at least getting there right now. He simply doesn't have a lot of value and I doubt he nets us a 5/6 defender unless a team is dumping that defender to clear cap.

 

As to the PS part, Kulikov has been limited to the 2nd PP unit which I believe to date has not scored anything. Not really fair to single him out for that. Second thing, name a defender in the Sabres system who can immediately take his place and minutes. I can't do it. You are right though, we are not paying him next season for his production. We are paying him for everything else he brings. He can skate, makes perfect breakout passes, is solid in his own end, and honestly if you look at his numbers, we should only expect about 15-20pts a year from him. He isn't Risto. I would pay Kulikov 4.75 for 5 years at this point because I think he can handle top line minutes and I don't really need him dropping 25a and 10g to make me happy. 

 

Ullmark has low value and even if he goes in the expansion it would mean a forward or defender was saved. At this point that forward or defender would probably have more value to Buffalo. 

[nfreeman]

Based on what we've seen so far, I think the Sabres need to re-sign Kulikov. 

 

He hasn't put up points but he adds value on offense and plays a complete, physical game.  He can handle big minutes.  He's better than Tallinder or Lydman was and he's only 26.  He'll be a solid top-3 defenseman for the next 7 years.

[ddaryl]

Kulikov will be retained IMO. You can't let a top D man walk... They'll find a way

[RonHextallsShoulderPads]

Based on what we've seen so far, I think the Sabres need to re-sign Kulikov. 

 

He hasn't put up points but he adds value on offense and plays a complete, physical game.  He can handle big minutes.  He's better than Tallinder or Lydman was and he's only 26.  He'll be a solid top-3 defenseman for the next 7 years.

 

Based on my comprehensive research we need to re-sign Kulikov.

 

[MODO Hockey]

Keeping Ullmark keeps MODO...he's worth every penny!

:D Im all good if they decide to trade Ullmark eventhough in my own opinion it would be stupid because i really think he has talant enough for nhl no matter what

ppl say, i want him to beat Lehner for n1.