False Accusations of Harassment and Me.

[Doohickie]

Dude, you are clearly a misogynist and deserve everything these righteous and proper ladies doled out. Be thankful you aren't in jail & still possess all your personage & belongings.

 

Taro, I know where you're coming from, but I'd like this thread to be free of sarcasm.  I was the ###### victim tonight.  And it's completely bs.

 

Yep.  That was not ever close to funny, Taro.  Not close.

[JJFIVEOH]

Probably accurate but this doesn't mean anything here. And false accusers are NOT as bad as actual predators.

 

Statistically speaking DOCUMENTED false accusations are nowhere near the same level of actual assaults (reported and unreported).

False accusers are just as bad as predators and should be penalized as such. 

 

There are many women who need legitimate help from sexual predators and their cries go unheard because they aren't taken seriously because of those who abuse the system. 

You are the first person I thought of when reading all the well wishes sent Eleven's way.

 

I was gonna step aside to maintain my sanity. But, you know how that goes........................... :angel:

Hoss, in my experience it seems as though Millennials have differing views of what harassment, flirtatious behavior and predatory behavior is................. compared to anybody who isn't a Millennial. 

 

Could you give me a brief definition and/or comparison between the three?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

What is the definition of sexual harassment?

 

Any UNWANTED (key word) advance of a sexual nature, or something that could be viewed as such.

 

I think that's right.

 

I feel badly for you 11, as you are innocent in my view from what you have said and from what I know of you harassment is not anything that you would ever think of doing.

 

I'm glad I'm old (among other reasons) and I have not been in a bar in 20+ years.

[Taro T]

Yep.  That was not ever close to funny, Taro.  Not close.

It wasn't meant to be funny.

[JJFIVEOH]

It wasn't meant to be funny.

That was serious?

[NHLBUFF]

When the DA takes a look at the evidence against Eleven and decides it wants to press charges then I don't believe your story anymore

[Taro T]

That was serious?

It was not to be taken lightheartedly.

[PASabreFan]

That was serious?

It was sardonic.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm not a real aggressive person when it comes to hitting on women. Probably because I usually avoid the airheads and go for the intelligent ones (it's not too difficult to figure it out right off the bat). But, at what point is somebody supposed to draw a line when showing some attraction to another person? I'm not saying grabbing a girl's ass is appropriate (Not saying Eleven did that, his was accidental, this is a hypothetical) but it certainly shouldn't be taken to the level of accusing somebody of harassment. If you're the kind of creep that walks around bars grabbing people's , it won't last long. But if you grab somebody's ass and the other person finds it uncomfortable, you say something to let them know you don't like it. Keep repeating the same process, now THAT'S harassment. Of course this applies to after hours scenarios, bars, clubs, etc.............. Grocery store, workplace is a totally different situation.

 

Is it going to get to the point where people will need to sign disclaimers before entering a bar/club? Will it get to the point where you need permission from another person just to talk to them? (Based on how so many people nowadays have their faces buried in their phones in a social environment, it wouldn't surprise me). That might seem far-fetched, but it doesn't seem like a line has been drawn. It appears as though a line keeps getting dropped lower and lower to the point where social interaction will become non-existent. 

 

I spent a couple of hours with an Australian girl the other night, and it's rather humorous how the rest of the world views the American social life. I am a fairly sociable person, but I've gotten to the point where I sometimes don't even waste my time any more. It might explain why I'm not married, lol. 

Really? A-s-s-e-s is censored? But A-s-s isn't..................

[JJFIVEOH]

Of course, this is 2016 so I'll probably get slammed for using the term 'airheads' even thought it doesn't apply to a specific sex. Do I need to apologize ahead of time so I don't get labeled a sexist?

[MattPie]

Of course, this is 2016 so I'll probably get slammed for using the term 'airheads' even thought it doesn't apply to a specific sex. Do I need to apologize ahead of time so I don't get labeled a sexist?

 

Probably "boring" is less evocative but more acceptable. :)

[Drunkard]

I'm not a real aggressive person when it comes to hitting on women. Probably because I usually avoid the airheads and go for the intelligent ones (it's not too difficult to figure it out right off the bat). But, at what point is somebody supposed to draw a line when showing some attraction to another person? I'm not saying grabbing a girl's ass is appropriate (Not saying Eleven did that, his was accidental, this is a hypothetical) but it certainly shouldn't be taken to the level of accusing somebody of harassment. If you're the kind of creep that walks around bars grabbing people's ######, it won't last long. But if you grab somebody's ass and the other person finds it uncomfortable, you say something to let them know you don't like it. Keep repeating the same process, now THAT'S harassment. Of course this applies to after hours scenarios, bars, clubs, etc.............. Grocery store, workplace is a totally different situation.

 

Is it going to get to the point where people will need to sign disclaimers before entering a bar/club? Will it get to the point where you need permission from another person just to talk to them? (Based on how so many people nowadays have their faces buried in their phones in a social environment, it wouldn't surprise me). That might seem far-fetched, but it doesn't seem like a line has been drawn. It appears as though a line keeps getting dropped lower and lower to the point where social interaction will become non-existent. 

 

I spent a couple of hours with an Australian girl the other night, and it's rather humorous how the rest of the world views the American social life. I am a fairly sociable person, but I've gotten to the point where I sometimes don't even waste my time any more. It might explain why I'm not married, lol. 

Really? A-s-s-e-s is censored? But A-s-s isn't..................

 

Sexual harassment is generally not physical in any way. SH is where the crude jokes, offensive pinup photos or calendars in a person's office area, elevator eyes, and things like that which can create a hostile environment fall within the guidelines of Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act (at least for the work environment). The moment it moves to touching another person in a sexual way or a sexual part of the body it becomes a form of sexual assault. The exact offense (rape, sexual assault, wrongful contact, abusive sexual contact, etc.) will depend upon the jurisdiction of where it occurred (state, city, county, etc.) and what was alleged to have happened (over or under the clothes, what body part was touched, and so on).

[JJFIVEOH]

Has anybody noticed how the movie 'Demolition Man' becomes more and more accurate as the years go by?

Sexual harassment is generally not physical in any way. SH is where the crude jokes, offensive pinup photos or calendars in a person's office area, elevator eyes, and things like that which can create a hostile environment fall within the guidelines of Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act (at least for the work environment). The moment it moves to touching another person in a sexual way or a sexual part of the body it becomes a form of sexual assault. The exact offense (rape, sexual assault, wrongful contact, abusive sexual contact, etc.) will depend upon the jurisdiction of where it occurred (state, city, county, etc.) and what was alleged to have happened (over or under the clothes, what body part was touched, and so on).

That's in the workplace. What about a social environment where people go to purposely interact with others? I don't want a legal description, I don't need to have to fill out a disclaimer when trying to interact with women.

[WildCard]

Demolition Man the Stallone movie with Bullock and they have weird virtual sex?

[nfreeman]

Has anybody noticed how the movie 'Demolition Man' becomes more and more accurate as the years go by?

That's in the workplace. What about a social environment where people go to purposely interact with others? I don't want a legal description, I don't need to have to fill out a disclaimer when trying to interact with women.

 

You don't need to sign a legal form, but you do need to keep your hands to yourself unless and until it becomes clear that you have been invited to do otherwise.

[calti]

I hope freeman sees this and comments upon it.

 

Tonight, I was out with my friend J at a bar.

 

The bar was full.  A woman entered my space to order drinks.  That's ok.  That happens at bars.

 

I went to put something in my pocket, and the left end of my left hand grazed her butt.  That happens at bars, too.  Immediately, it was "I'm sorry, excuse me."

 

What happens later is in hours and minutes.

 

0:10  A woman comes up and accuses me of sexually assaulting her friend.  I didn't even know what she was talking about.  Once she explained, I explained what happened.  She said, ok, but what was your hand doing near my friend's ass?  Me, well, I was either gesturing while speaking, or putting something in my pocket.  Sorry I bumped your friend.  I did apologize to her.  People get bump into people, or things, all the time.  She:  I believed you until your people bump into things all the time excuse.

 

0:12  Said woman involves some "muscle," whom I presume to be someone who dates one of the women.  Now J, who is as big as a house, gets involved.  They argue over whether millenials need safe spaces.

 

0:15  I decide to shut it down.  J, stop; I can fight my own battles.  J:  (To the woman and the muscle, not me); he's right; he's the best litigator I know in Buffalo.  Me:  Look, I'm sorry if I hurt your friend, but I already did apologize to her and I will again if she'd like to talk.  If not, that's ok, too.

 

0:40  The women are back.  One of them (wearing an orange bandana--relevant later) is deliberately touching my butt every three or four minutes.  I'm ignoring it.  I'm having a conversation with my friend about which James Bond movie is best.  This, this is real bar talk.

 

0:41  I go to and return from the bathroom.  A very tall woman tells me that she'll call the police if I ever touch her friend again.  I tell her and her friend (the woman at 0:10) that this is nonsense, that they are harassing me, and that I want them to leave me alone.  They walk away.

 

0:45  Bartender (a woman, and a friend) learns of this and starts laughing at the idea that I would grab a woman's ass in the middle of the bar.  J and I explain that this, presently, is not a laughing matter.  We drink shots.

 

1:10  Four women are surrounding me with accusations.  I say, "which one of you is the one who claims I touched her?  Can I explain and apologize again?"  No one answers.  Finally, Orange Bandanna speaks up.  "She's outside."  "Ok, let's talk." (By the way, no one is outside.) Now I get cross-examined by Orange Bandanna.  

 

I explain that hey, I bumped into someone, all that is all that.  Orange Bandanna now tells me that I slapped her friend on the butt.  I explained that the only woman whose butt I'd like to touch has been in the ground for two and a half years.  She insists that I slapped her friend on the butt.  We eventually agree to disagree, I guess. 

 

I NEVER SLAPPED ANYTHING.

 

I did graze a butt with my hand.

 

I did so because it was crowded and because the butt in question invaded MY space.

 

These women ruined my night with a friend.

 

I get that women are at risk.  I really do.  But...

 

Please think of this the next time you presume to accuse, or the next time you presume that accusations are accurate.

Wow. i am very sorry to hear this.-And i don't mean to sound preachy..But there is a lot of evil in the world. Some people out there are downright scary.And women can be the worst.

Getting falsely accused of something is one of the worst experiences to go through. You aren't alone.

[Drunkard]

You don't need to sign a legal form, but you do need to keep your hands to yourself unless and until it becomes clear that you have been invited to do otherwise.

 

Bingo. It's a simple as that. Don't touch people without their consent.

[That Aud Smell]

As for the OP: That is a weird incident. But also somehow familiar. I feel like I've seen that movie before -- a few times, even.

 

Also: The thread title makes me wince just a little, each time I see it.

Edited October 24, 2016 by That Aud Smell

[PASabreFan]

So you get one free grab? Uhhhh... I don't think so.

[Hoss]

A fantastic perspective piece that I believe every male here should read: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/10/laughing-until-we-cry-conversations-about-getting-groped.html

[JJFIVEOH]

You don't need to sign a legal form, but you do need to keep your hands to yourself unless and until it becomes clear that you have been invited to do otherwise.

 

Sure, but an ass grab doesn't constitute a lawsuit/criminal conviction. It shouldn't. 

Used to be an ass-grab was a slap to the face, at worst. Now, people are afraid to tell a woman she's wearing nice pants. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by JJFIVEOH

[Hoss]

Sure, but an ass grab doesn't constitute a lawsuit/criminal conviction. It shouldn't.

 

Used to be an ass-grab was a slap to the face, at worst. Now, people are afraid to tell a woman she's wearing nice pants.

Oh no, women decided they should have a voice and be able to dictate who does and doesn't touch them BEFORE they get violated! Make America Grope Again!

 

Vile.

[JJFIVEOH]

False accusers are just as bad as predators and should be penalized as such. 

 

There are many women who need legitimate help from sexual predators and their cries go unheard because they aren't taken seriously because of those who abuse the system. 

 

I was gonna step aside to maintain my sanity. But, you know how that goes........................... :angel:

Hoss, in my experience it seems as though Millennials have differing views of what harassment, flirtatious behavior and predatory behavior is................. compared to anybody who isn't a Millennial. 

 

Could you give me a brief definition and/or comparison between the three?

[Eleven]

As for the OP: That is a weird incident. But also somehow familiar. I feel like I've seen that movie before -- a few times, even.

 

Also: The thread title makes me wince just a little, each time I see it.

 

Finally remembered how to change a title.

[Hoss]

Flirtatious behavior: saying "hi, I'm JJ" with your vocal cords to an willing participant

 

Harassment: saying "hi, I'm JJ" with your vocal cords to an unwilling participant

 

Predatory behavior: saying "hi, I'm JJ" with your hands or genitals to an unwilling participant.