False Accusations of Harassment and Me.

[Eleven]

I hope freeman sees this and comments upon it.

 

Tonight, I was out with my friend J at a bar.

 

The bar was full.  A woman entered my space to order drinks.  That's ok.  That happens at bars.

 

I went to put something in my pocket, and the left end of my left hand grazed her butt.  That happens at bars, too.  Immediately, it was "I'm sorry, excuse me."

 

What happens later is in hours and minutes.

 

0:10  A woman comes up and accuses me of sexually assaulting her friend.  I didn't even know what she was talking about.  Once she explained, I explained what happened.  She said, ok, but what was your hand doing near my friend's ass?  Me, well, I was either gesturing while speaking, or putting something in my pocket.  Sorry I bumped your friend.  I did apologize to her.  People get bump into people, or things, all the time.  She:  I believed you until your people bump into things all the time excuse.

 

0:12  Said woman involves some "muscle," whom I presume to be someone who dates one of the women.  Now J, who is as big as a house, gets involved.  They argue over whether millenials need safe spaces.

 

0:15  I decide to shut it down.  J, stop; I can fight my own battles.  J:  (To the woman and the muscle, not me); he's right; he's the best litigator I know in Buffalo.  Me:  Look, I'm sorry if I hurt your friend, but I already did apologize to her and I will again if she'd like to talk.  If not, that's ok, too.

 

0:40  The women are back.  One of them (wearing an orange bandana--relevant later) is deliberately touching my butt every three or four minutes.  I'm ignoring it.  I'm having a conversation with my friend about which James Bond movie is best.  This, this is real bar talk.

 

0:41  I go to and return from the bathroom.  A very tall woman tells me that she'll call the police if I ever touch her friend again.  I tell her and her friend (the woman at 0:10) that this is nonsense, that they are harassing me, and that I want them to leave me alone.  They walk away.

 

0:45  Bartender (a woman, and a friend) learns of this and starts laughing at the idea that I would grab a woman's ass in the middle of the bar.  J and I explain that this, presently, is not a laughing matter.  We drink shots.

 

1:10  Four women are surrounding me with accusations.  I say, "which one of you is the one who claims I touched her?  Can I explain and apologize again?"  No one answers.  Finally, Orange Bandanna speaks up.  "She's outside."  "Ok, let's talk." (By the way, no one is outside.) Now I get cross-examined by Orange Bandanna.  

 

I explain that hey, I bumped into someone, all that is all that.  Orange Bandanna now tells me that I slapped her friend on the butt.  I explained that the only woman whose butt I'd like to touch has been in the ground for two and a half years.  She insists that I slapped her friend on the butt.  We eventually agree to disagree, I guess. 

 

I NEVER SLAPPED ANYTHING.

 

I did graze a butt with my hand.

 

I did so because it was crowded and because the butt in question invaded MY space.

 

These women ruined my night with a friend.

 

I get that women are at risk.  I really do.  But...

 

Please think of this the next time you presume to accuse, or the next time you presume that accusations are accurate.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Eleven

[drnkirishone]

so........... when you getting perp walked to county?

[Taro T]

Dude, you are clearly a misogynist and deserve everything these righteous and proper ladies doled out. Be thankful you aren't in jail & still possess all your personage & belongings.

[Eleven]

so........... when you getting perp walked to county?

 

Not a chance.  Frankly, at a certain point, I wanted the police there.

Dude, you are clearly a misogynist and deserve everything these righteous and proper ladies doled out. Be thankful you aren't in jail & still possess all your personage & belongings.

 

Taro, I know where you're coming from, but I'd like this thread to be free of sarcasm.  I was the ###### victim tonight.  And it's completely bs.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Eleven

[Weave]

I like my bars better.

Edited October 23, 2016 by We've

[LGR4GM]

Wow that's ridiculous. Thanks for sharing.

[Taro T]

Not a chance.  Frankly, at a certain point, I wanted the police there.

 

 

Taro, I know where you're coming from, but I'd like this thread to be free of sarcasm.  I was the ###### victim tonight.  And it's completely bs.

Sorry, you CANNOT be a victim here, because the lady you attacked is the victim. People, women in particular, are incapable of misconstruing events. What they perceive is, in fact, their reality. If your version of events doesn't jibe with their version, even if you have witnesses and individuals who will corroborate your character, it doesn't matter. Victims never misconstrue events, nor do they ever allow others to convince themselves that a harmless encounter was in fact an attack. If the individual believes they were attacked, then they were. Case closed.

[bunomatic]

I can see how that quickly went from a misunderstanding or a simple unfortunate mistake to harassment. The problem is that they seem to want and crave attention from men and when they don't get it they can get nasty. They'll take the attention good or bad. Was the original girl that felt your hand brush her butt even in on the harassment or was it just her pack of hounds ? Glad you got out of there with your private bits. I had a girl approach me and hit on me and when I politely declined her advances she got real nasty and accused me of being gay.lol She was a real piece of work and not my type but often when you add alcohol they get mean.

[Hoss]

I think you and the women are going to be just fine. I don't believe the title is relevant to the text.

[Eleven]

I can see how that quickly went from a misunderstanding or a simple unfortunate mistake to harassment. The problem is that they seem to want and crave attention from men and when they don't get it they can get nasty. They'll take the attention good or bad. Was the original girl that felt your hand brush her butt even in on the harassment or was it just her pack of hounds ? Glad you got out of there with your private bits. I had a girl approach me and hit on me and when I politely declined her advances she got real nasty and accused me of being gay.lol She was a real piece of work and not my type but often when you add alcohol they get mean.

 

buno, Honestly, I have no idea who I brushed up against.  It could have been any of them, or the "friend" who was "outside."  I never saw her face; it was just an over the shoulder apology.

Sorry, you CANNOT be a victim here, because the lady you attacked is the victim. People, women in particular, are incapable of misconstruing events. What they perceive is, in fact, their reality. If your version of events doesn't jibe with their version, even if you have witnesses and individuals who will corroborate your character, it doesn't matter. Victims never misconstrue events, nor do they ever allow others to convince themselves that a harmless encounter was in fact an attack. If the individual believes they were attacked, then they were. Case closed.

 

I'm serious, this really is not helping.  Thanks.

I think you and the women are going to be just fine. I don't believe the title is relevant to the text.

 

Would it help if I included the Duke lacrosse team in it?

[SwampD]

I think you and the women are going to be just fine. I don't believe the title is relevant to the text.

It absolutely is.

[Hoss]

Would it help if I included the Duke lacrosse team in it?

 

Taro, I know where you're coming from, but I'd like this thread to be free of sarcasm.  I was the ###### victim tonight.  And it's completely bs.

Hmmmm ...

 

What happened to you sucks. It happens sometimes. It's still not relevant to Patrick or Evander Kane. The seriousness of the accusations against them extend far beyond a grazing of a butt and claimed assault. And we don't know whether or not they are the predators those women claim them to be. You're not them.

 

You were a victim of unwarranted harassment, but it's simply not accurate to immediately put yourself on their level and claim a similar experience.

 

I respect the hell out of you and am upset you dealt with this, so I hope you don't take this as insulting or furthering your victimization.

It absolutely is.

I could see an argument that it's relevant to the claims against EVANDER Kane that came out when he allegedly groped a woman's breast and tried to draw her into his car. But it's not relevant to Patrick and, despite my first sentence, I don't think it's really relevant.

 

I've been slapped at bars for things I didn't know even happened. I got taken out of a bar by the throat (bouncer had me in a chokehold) after a guy told him I pushed his girlfriend. I never saw the guy or the girl and only found out after my friend came out and told me that's what they heard. I'm not Patrick or Evander Kane.

[Eleven]

Hmmmm ...

 

What happened to you sucks. It happens sometimes. It's still not relevant to Patrick or Evander Kane. The seriousness of the accusations against them extend far beyond a grazing of a butt and claimed assault. And we don't know whether or not they are the predators those women claim them to be. You're not them.

 

You were a victim of unwarranted harassment, but it's simply not accurate to immediately put yourself on their level and claim a similar experience.

 

I respect the hell out of you and am upset you dealt with this, so I hope you don't take this as insulting or furthering your victimization.

I could see an argument that it's relevant to the claims against EVANDER Kane that came out when he allegedly groped a woman's breast and tried to draw her into his car. But it's not relevant to Patrick and, despite my first sentence, I don't think it's really relevant.

 

I've been slapped at bars for things I didn't know even happened. I got taken out of a bar by the throat (bouncer had me in a chokehold) after a guy told him I pushed his girlfriend. I never saw the guy or the girl and only found out after my friend came out and told me that's what they heard. I'm not Patrick or Evander Kane.

 

But maybe, if you're wearing just the right (or wrong) clothing, you are.  That's what I learned tonight.  That's what kids who played lacrosse at Duke learned a few years ago.

 

Again, I don't deny that real sexual assault happens.  I know it does.  But the false accusations happen too.

[Weave]

I assume that none of what happened was the result of any rational thought on their part, but as I read all that I kept thinking, what is it they want to get out of all this? What were they hoping to have happen? Did they jave an inkling of your status? Was it a shakedown? Or was it just alcoholic stupidity?

 

Im glad my preferred hangout is mostly adults.

[Eleven]

I assume that none of what happened was the result of any rational thought on their part, but as I read all that I kept thinking, what is it they want to get out of all this? What were they hoping to have happen? Did they jave an inkling of your status? Was it a shakedown? Or was it just alcoholic stupidity?

 

Im glad my preferred hangout is mostly adults.

 

As I understand it, they were sober.  I was, too.  This was pretty early.  I kept thinking of the wymynists from PCU, if you remember that movie.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Eleven

[PASabreFan]

I think you and the women are going to be just fine. I don't believe the title is relevant to the text.

It does seem like apples and oranges.

[Weave]

As I understand it, they were sober. I was, too. This was pretty early. I kept thinking of the wymynists from PCU, if you remember that movie.

I dont.

[Eleven]

It does seem like apples and oranges.

 

You be on the receiving end of this sometime; you'll change your tune really quickly.

I dont.

 

It was a pretty forgettable movie.

[Weave]

So, what do you think was their angle?

[nfreeman]

Yikes. Sorry about this 11.

 

As for whether it's relevant to the Kane situations: IMHO it is, for the exact reason someone said upthread: false accusations happen quite often, whether it's part of a shakedown, because some foolish person wants to be an SJW, or otherwise.

 

Rape is a terrible crime, and lesser sexual assault is absolutely not OK either -- but the unfortunate occurrence of those offenses throughout history does not justify a presumption of guilt whenever a woman accuses a man of something.

 

It's also with noting that if 11 were a college student and this happened, he'd be facing a high risk of significant disciplinary action, with no ability to cross-examine the complainant, call witnesses, be represented by counsel, etc.

[PASabreFan]

You be on the receiving end of this ###### sometime; you'll change your tune really quickly.

 

It was a pretty forgettable movie.

I'm not trying to lessen the impact of what you went through. But the comparison falls flat.

[Eleven]

Yikes. Sorry about this 11.

 

As for whether it's relevant to the Kane situations: IMHO it is, for the exact reason someone said upthread: false accusations happen quite often, whether it's part of a shakedown, because some foolish person wants to be an SJW, or otherwise.

 

Rape is a terrible crime, and lesser sexual assault is absolutely not OK either -- but the unfortunate occurrence of those offenses throughout history does not justify a presumption of guilt whenever a woman accuses a man of something.

 

It's also with noting that if 11 were a college student and this happened, he'd be facing a high risk of significant disciplinary action, with no ability to cross-examine the complainant, call witnesses, be represented by counsel, etc.

 

Yep.

[PASabreFan]

Nothing good happens at 8:45.

[SwampD]

It was a pretty forgettable movie.

 

PCU is a great movie.

 

But maybe, if you're wearing just the right (or wrong) clothing, you are.  That's what I learned tonight.  That's what kids who played lacrosse at Duke learned a few years ago.

 

Again, I don't deny that real sexual assault happens.  I know it does.  But the false accusations happen too.

Just wait until the regular guy calls in sick and Hoss is doing the weekend sports report at 11. He'll have four stalkers by time he makes his Sunday morning coffee.

[Hoss]

But maybe, if you're wearing just the right (or wrong) clothing, you are. That's what I learned tonight. That's what kids who played lacrosse at Duke learned a few years ago.

 

Again, I don't deny that real sexual assault happens. I know it does. But the false accusations happen too.

They do and it's a tragedy. I still don't think it's relevant to the Kane cases. Nobody would refuse to acknowledge these things happen. The only relevant info to their cases are the facts of their cases. It doesn't matter if rape happens elsewhere or if false accusations happen elsewhere as long as it did or didn't occur in their scenarios.

You be on the receiving end of this ###### sometime; you'll change your tune really quickly.

I have. I have been accused of the same incident you dealt with. I've been accused of a far greater sexual violation for the sake of somebody's self preservation after they made a mistake. Both furthered the tone I've presented here.