nfreeman Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 That is what I take issue with. Both Kane's have the same lawyer and were accused of sexual assault. One walks free. The other one gets slapped with ###### charges (of which the bar even said he didn't do). The question is why? The answer almost certainly arises not out of race but out of different facts in the 2 situations. Speaking of facts -- we still have no idea what they are. All we have are unproven allegations from an unnamed woman who was in a bar at 3:00 AM. Those are all fair points, JJ. You may know from my other posts around here that I don't credit the whole "role model" thing much either. And I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And I support second and third chances. And I'm pretty sure that, as a white middle-aged guy, I do a good job of managing my racial biases (we all got 'em). Even with all of that, I'm just not happy with E. Kane being a Sabre right now. I don't think he's likely to grow up. I don't think he's remorseful for the mistakes he makes. I don't think he's sufficiently self-aware to become a better person and better teammate hockey player. ... Maybe I am wrong. But that's how I feel about it at this point. There's even a part of me -- of which I am not at all proud -- that would enjoy hearing/reading about him as part of the expansion team in Vegas. What a circus that'd be. Well, whether he made "mistakes" depends on what actually happened, which we don't know, innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 ... Speaking of facts -- we still have no idea what they are. All we have are unproven allegations from an unnamed woman who was in a bar at 3:00 AM. ... We have a bit more than that. We have three woman and one man pressing charges for non-criminal assault at that bar. And yes, it's most important to remember the allegations haven't been proven one way or the other. But it's more than just one woman accusing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 We have a bit more than that. We have three woman and one man pressing charges for non-criminal assault at that bar. And yes, it's most important to remember the allegations haven't been proven one way or the other. But it's more than just one woman accusing here. Fair point. I was referring to the description of events that was linked upthread -- I believe that's been the only public comment by any of the accusers, but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Well, whether he made "mistakes" depends on what actually happened, which we don't know, innit? I often endorse that line of thinking because I am a skeptic by nature. But I'm not doing that with Evander Kane at this point in time. He's not presently getting the benefit of the doubt from me. And I'm comfortable having concluded that he's made some fairly serious mistakes with his off-ice conduct. I'm equally comfortable with my perception that he doesn't seem remorseful -- that he doesn't seem to "get it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 He's not presently getting the benefit of the doubt from me. And I'm comfortable having concluded that he's made some fairly serious mistakes with his off-ice conduct. I'm equally comfortable with my perception that he doesn't seem remorseful -- that he doesn't seem to "get it." Just so we're clear -- this is because of the incident last year, in which no charges of any kind were brought and no specific allegations were made (let alone proven), plus the incident this year, in which we have unproven, unattributed and unresponded-to allegations that the police have decided are non-criminal in nature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Well, there was the tracksuit..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Just so we're clear -- this is because of the incident last year, in which no charges of any kind were brought and no specific allegations were made (let alone proven), plus the incident this year, in which we have unproven, unattributed and unresponded-to allegations that the police have decided are non-criminal in nature? Well, there was the tracksuit..................... I know JJ's mostly kidding. Sort of kidding. Maybe not kidding? Anyway. It's not just the skeevy weirdness at Harborcenter and the booze-fueled (coke-fueled?) awfulness at Bottoms Up. It's a host of things. Shoot - that "host" includes the perceptions I've developed by watching the persona he curates on social media. It includes the fact that he's dated B-list super models and then run around on them. It includes the stupid money stack cell phone. And none of the allegations or charges need to be proven in a criminal proceeding for me to draw my own conclusions based on my own experiences, views of the world, and such. Because I'm not a jury being asked to indict or convict the guy; I'm a fan who's decided that this Delta Bravo is a frickin' pain in the ass who will not just indiscriminately direct any puck at the net once he crosses the blue line, but who also, because of his behaviour both on and off the ice, may end up being an impediment to this young team developing into a SC contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 To be fair, yes I was kidding to an extent. It seems like some people I've talked to have chosen to use every possible situation to justify their dislike for Kane. Including his social media antics; even though social media antics aren't anything new to professional athletes any more. Social media culture? I kid....... In your defense I completely understand. You've taken the whole package that is Evander Kane into account when judging his character. I understand. I've done the same thing to football players and it's led me to care just enough about the NFL to play fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 So there was an article in TBN today about the incident and the statements made to police by the alleged victims: http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/police-blotter/youre-coming-to-my-house-with-me-and-youre-going-to-like-it-woman-said-kane-told-her-20160727 Here's what I find distressing. None of the alleged victims are named. Not even the bouncer. I get why the media does not release the names of victims of sexual assault. I get why the media does not release the names of victims of crimes in general when the victims are minors. But I don't get it here. Why should Kane's reputation be the only one at stake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 So there was an article in TBN today about the incident and the statements made to police by the alleged victims: http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/police-blotter/youre-coming-to-my-house-with-me-and-youre-going-to-like-it-woman-said-kane-told-her-20160727 Here's what I find distressing. None of the alleged victims are named. Not even the bouncer. I get why the media does not release the names of victims of sexual assault. I get why the media does not release the names of victims of crimes in general when the victims are minors. But I don't get it here. Why should Kane's reputation be the only one at stake? Same reason as those other two; you don't want people afraid to come forward in any crime, especially one that is as high profile as one involving a pro athlete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 I think my favorite thing is the opening sentence "Evander Kane grabbed etc... then at the end ... according to 4 sworn statements" cuz that's not a biased way to write the sentence. Btw, guilty or not Kane's behavior isn't acceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 I think my favorite thing is the opening sentence "Evander Kane grabbed etc... then at the end ... according to 4 sworn statements" cuz that's not a biased way to write the sentence. Btw, guilty or not Kane's behavior isn't acceptable So guilty until proven innocent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 So guilty until proven innocentguilty in the eyes of some of us fans, for sure. That's different than guilty before a judge and jury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 So there was an article in TBN today about the incident and the statements made to police by the alleged victims: http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/police-blotter/youre-coming-to-my-house-with-me-and-youre-going-to-like-it-woman-said-kane-told-her-20160727 Here's what I find distressing. None of the alleged victims are named. Not even the bouncer. I get why the media does not release the names of victims of sexual assault. I get why the media does not release the names of victims of crimes in general when the victims are minors. But I don't get it here. Why should Kane's reputation be the only one at stake? Let's FOIA dem things, Eleven. We could post them here unredacted. P.S. I infer that the complaints/reports are being released, since the media has them. If they were leaked, then we're likely out of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 So guilty until proven innocentHe's guilty of getting into a situation which makes him look bad and makes the Sabres look bad. Whether he grabbed women or not is up to the court but he's responsible for putting himself in a bad situation. Also did you not notice I disagreed with the RR job of an opening sentence TBN did? That's such a leading crap sentence I'm curious if the writer took a college writing course. It's a very biased and deliberate way to mislead. "Evander Kane was involved in an incident in downtown buffalo (date). According to 4 sworn statements by the alleged victims/ accusers / synonyms , Evander Kane did (supposed things he did)." See, much better intro to that article without being deliberately biased. They did similar things with P Kane's case. It's crappy writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 You'll never see the victim named in a crime unless they died or contact media themselves to tell their story. The victims in this case not being named means absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 There was an extensive investigation. There were witnesses. There was video. If any of these allegations were true, or at least accurate, the city would have pressed more serious charges. Alas, the most severe charge is misdemeanor trespassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 There was an extensive investigation. There were witnesses. There was video. If any of these allegations were true, or at least accurate, the city would have pressed more serious charges. Alas, the most severe charge is misdemeanor trespassing. Disagree. Trespassing and harassment charges often go hand in hand. To suggest the four charges of non criminal harassment are less serious is underestimating their potential to harm E Kane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 Disagree. Trespassing and harassment charges often go hand in hand. To suggest the four charges of non criminal harassment are less serious is underestimating their potential to harm E Kane. One is a misdemeanor and the others are violations. They are less serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 One is a misdemeanor and the others are violations. They are less serious. Still disagree, barrister. Those four charges and their potential to invite civil proceedings, have the potential to harm E Kane greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 Still disagree, barrister. Those four charges and their potential to invite civil proceedings, have the potential to harm E Kane greatly. The part about civil suits is definitely accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 Still disagree, barrister. Those four charges and their potential to invite civil proceedings, have the potential to harm E Kane greatly. The potential to invite any civil proceedings is besides the point that they are baseless claims. If they weren't baseless claims, the city would have pressed more serious charges on their own. If anything, the fact that the city could not support their claims after their investigation says that these people are in it for a civil suit, almost like they knew beforehand that all they have to do is make a claim to file on a police report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 ^ It's not that bar fight claims are often baseless -- they're just a messy mixed bag. I feel safe inferring that several people -- E. Kane chief among them -- did some pretty dumb sh1t that night. But police and prosecutors are not hot to trot about those kinds of scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 ^ It's not that bar fight claims are often baseless -- they're just a messy mixed bag. I feel safe inferring that several people -- E. Kane chief among them -- did some pretty dumb sh1t that night. But police and prosecutors are not hot to trot about those kinds of scenarios. Nobody's claiming that Kane hasn't made bad decisions is his social life. None of us knows what happened that night. My point is, too many people seem to accept the story that he's hauling women around by their hair, choking them, throwing them into his car................. all because of claims made by the women. If any of this was legitimate the city would have pressed more serious charges. This isn't like the PKane case where there wasn't much evidence available, this case has plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 28, 2016 Report Share Posted July 28, 2016 I agree with you, it's a mess either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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