Steven Stamkos stays in Tampa Bay, 8.5mil x 8yrs

[TrueBlueGED]

There's just no place on the Sabres for a 60 goal scorer.

He hasn't scored 60 since 2011-12. Also known as the last season Matt Moulson scored 30. So, can we call Moulson a 30 goal scorer?

 

(I'm just having some fun. I hope nobody thinks I'm genuinely comparing the two players)

[LGR4GM]

There's just no place on the Sabres for a 60 goal scorer.

As stated multiple times in multiple places that isn't the point and he's not a 60 goal scorer anymore, but please continue posting this it really adds 0 insight to the conversation

[Drunkard]

As stated multiple times in multiple places that isn't the point and he's not a 60 goal scorer anymore, but please continue posting this it really adds 0 insight to the conversation

I don't want to spend the money on Stamkos but I think he could pot 60 goals at least once during his contract playing with some combination of O'Reilly, Reinhart, Eichel, and whomever we lined him up with. Especially since those guys (with the possible exception of Eichel) seem to be pass first guys. I think he'd regularly score 30-40 during the first half of his contract as well. I just imagine injuries and age catching up with him by the latter half of the deal.

[dudacek]

As stated multiple times in multiple places that isn't the point and he's not a 60 goal scorer anymore, but please continue posting this it really adds 0 insight to the conversation

On the contrary, it makes the necessary point that Stamkos is one of the league's best scorers and the Sabres lack scorers.

[qwksndmonster]

As stated multiple times in multiple places that isn't the point and he's not a 60 goal scorer anymore, but please continue posting this it really adds 0 insight to the conversation

The point is that he scored 60 like 2 or 3 seasons ago and is currently still at the very least a 35 goal guy. The kinda guys who are becoming rarer than... something clever that is rare.

[Thorny]

There's just no place on the Sabres for a 60 goal scorer.

 

Right?

 

Seriously though, we don't need Stamkos, we have Girgensons. And Bailey.

 

Problem is, what do you do with ROR, Eichel, and Reinhart? I suppose Reinhart could stay at wing, but that still leaves a glut.

 

I'd rather spend the money on D and W.

I don't think it can be ruled out that Stamkos could play wing. Reinhart can play wing. ROR had his best statistical season at wing. Eichel is the only guy who's gotta stay at centre, as a definite.

 

On the contrary, it makes the necessary point that Stamkos is one of the league's best scorers and the Sabres lack scorers.

It sure does.

 

Compelling arguments can and have been created, going into layer upon layer of detail, coming up with reasons why we should not sign one of the best goal scorers in the league. Many valid points included.

 

But I'm currently going to choose to hope we sign this superstar, trusting that if it does indeed arise, Murray made the correct decision with all the information available to him, him being in a better position than any of us to know if it works, if it's right for our team. If it doesn't happen, well, no harm no foul. But I'm not going to hope against signing a player of his caliber, when if it happens, I trust the judgement of the guy making that choice.

I don't want to spend the money on Stamkos but I think he could pot 60 goals at least once during his contract playing with some combination of O'Reilly, Reinhart, Eichel, and whomever we lined him up with. Especially since those guys (with the possible exception of Eichel) seem to be pass first guys. I think he'd regularly score 30-40 during the first half of his contract as well. I just imagine injuries and age catching up with him by the latter half of the deal.

Eichel is pass first too, and I'd love to see him have a guy like SS on his RW to bury his passes.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Thorny

[Huckleberry]

I'd love for Eichel to shoot it more, he has a wicked shot just like Stamkos and Ovechkin.

If we do sign Stamkos its to be with O'Reilly not Eichel.

[qwksndmonster]

Porque no los dos?

[Thorny]

I'd love for Eichel to shoot it more, he has a wicked shot just like Stamkos and Ovechkin.

If we do sign Stamkos its to be with O'Reilly not Eichel.

He does have a great shot, but playmaking is his strongest asset. I think he'd be great with Stamkos. But the beauty of it is you can mix and match, there are lots of great ways to line them up.

 

O'Reilly - Eichel - Stamkos

Kane - Reinhart - Girgensons

 

Kane - O'Reilly - Stamkos

Girgensons - Eichel - Reinhart

 

O'Reilly - Eichel - Girgensons

Kane - Stamkos - Reinhart

 

Etc etc

[sodbuster]

Hockey News: http://i.imgur.com/YlMTtV6.jpg

I don't think we afford to pay all six of those guys...

[SwampD]

As stated multiple times in multiple places that isn't the point and he's not a 60 goal scorer anymore, but please continue posting this it really adds 0 insight to the conversation

Relax. Anyone who has ever scored 60 goals in a single season has a place on my team. Period. I don't care what his face looks like or how much money he wants. We wish Eichel turns into Stamkos (FTR, I think he turns out to be more), but who cares? I want every high end talent available. Let GMTM figure out the numbers.

[WildCard]

As stated multiple times in multiple places that isn't the point and he's not a 60 goal scorer anymore, but please continue posting this it really adds 0 insight to the conversation

Snark aside, I agree with the sentiment.

 

I don't want to spend the money on Stamkos but I think he could pot 60 goals at least once during his contract playing with some combination of O'Reilly, Reinhart, Eichel, and whomever we lined him up with. Especially since those guys (with the possible exception of Eichel) seem to be pass first guys. I think he'd regularly score 30-40 during the first half of his contract as well. I just imagine injuries and age catching up with him by the latter half of the deal.

I honestly don't think anyone can pot 60 goals anymore. If Ovechkin can't, nobody can

 

On the contrary, it makes the necessary point that Stamkos is one of the league's best scorers and the Sabres lack scorers.

Do we though? I don't think so

 

Right?

 

Seriously though, we don't need Stamkos, we have Girgensons. And Bailey.

 

I don't think it can be ruled out that Stamkos could play wing. Reinhart can play wing. ROR had his best statistical season at wing. Eichel is the only guy who's gotta stay at centre, as a definite.

 

It sure does.

 

Compelling arguments can and have been created, going into layer upon layer of detail, coming up with reasons why we should not sign one of the best goal scorers in the league. Many valid points included.

 

But I'm currently going to choose to hope we sign this superstar, trusting that if it does indeed arise, Murray made the correct decision with all the information available to him, him being in a better position than any of us to know if it works, if it's right for our team. If it doesn't happen, well, no harm no foul. But I'm not going to hope against signing a player of his caliber, when if it happens, I trust the judgement of the guy making that choice.

 

Eichel is pass first too, and I'd love to see him have a guy like SS on his RW to bury his passes.

- Come on now. We don't need Stamkos because we have Eichel and Kane, not Bailey and Girgs

 

 

- He's not playing wing

Stamkos prefers to play centre, which creates a top-six logjam with Valtteri Filppula and triplet Tyler Johnson. It sounds like the Lightning would prefer Stamkos to play on the wing to ease that issue. From what I’ve been told, the discussions were professional, but both organization and player remain searching for common ground. - Elliote Friedman (9-8-2015)

http://thehockeywriters.com/report-steven-stamkos-was-shopped-wants-to-play-center/

 

Yzerman said. “I didn’t even think about it; it didn’t bother me. I have no issues — Stammer said he prefers center, he’s played there his whole life, that’s not a problem. - See more at: http://www.tbo.com/sports/lightning/stamkos-prefers-to-be-at-center-of-it-all-or-just-winging-it-20160217/#sthash.FkrSXNDO.dpuf

 

 

I'd love for Eichel to shoot it more, he has a wicked shot just like Stamkos and Ovechkin.

If we do sign Stamkos its to be with O'Reilly not Eichel.

 Agreed on both counts. Eichel is at his best when he is free with his shot. We saw it all year; his best games were when he took shots. If, IF, we get Stamkos, he needs to be with someone who won't take his shots, and the same thing goes with Jack. It's why Kane and Eichel were so miserable together

 

 

Relax. Anyone who has ever scored 60 goals in a single season has a place on my team. Period. I don't care what his face looks like or how much money he wants. We wish Eichel turns into Stamkos (FTR, I think he turns out to be more), but who cares? I want every high end talent available. Let GMTM figure out the numbers.

You sure about that second sentence?

 

[Thorny]

Preferring to play centre isn't the same thing as refusing to play wing. Also, people can change their outlook.

 

I don't want to compare Kane to Stamkos. Their finishing ability isn't on nearly the same level. Kane not being good with Jack means that other shoot-first players won't be either? Eichel is a pass-first player. We don't know that he and Stamkos wouldn't compliment each other very well. Stamkos can pass, too. But Eichel isn't a Stamkos type player. He's a playmaker, Stamkos is a Sniper.

 

It's great when Eichel starts shooting, too, because it opens up passing lanes for him. He's a complete offensive player. If we somehow do get Stamkos, I'd very much like to see what they can do together. But again, there are other lineup options as well.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Thorny

[qwksndmonster]

Preferring to play centre isn't the same thing as refusing to play wing. Also, people can change their outlook.

 

I don't want to compare Kane to Stamkos. Their finishing ability isn't on nearly the same level. Kane not being good with Jack means that other shoot-first players won't be either? Eichel is a pass-first player. We don't know that he and Stamkos wouldn't compliment each other very well. Stamkos can pass, too. But Eichel isn't a Stamkos type player. He's a playmaker, Stamkos is a Sniper.

 

It's great when Eichel starts shooting, too, because it opens up passing lanes for him. He's a complete offensive player. If we somehow do get Stamkos, I'd very much like to see what they can do together. But again, there are other lineup options as well.

I agree.  Eichel's never going to shoot as much as Ovechkin and Stamkos, even if his shot is just as good (and I'm not totally sure it is).

[Thorny]

I agree.  Eichel's never going to shoot as much as Ovechkin and Stamkos, even if his shot is just as good (and I'm not totally sure it is).

Ya, it's probably not. But it's still a good shot, and him having excellent on ice vision allowing him to create exceptionally well AND having a great shot with a knack for scoring goals are two things that go into making him that complete franchise talent. But there's no reason you can't have two guys on the ice that have great goal scoring ability, particularly when Eichel is a true pass-first centre.

 

Stamkos's hockey IQ is high enough that he would know how to play with Jack. I love Kane, but he would struggle more to structure his game in a way that complements Jack's, with less natural hockey smarts than Stamkos.

[Sabel79]

Not only is Jack a pass-first player, but how many of us remember early this past season where games were lost because his passes went for naught because his line mates, and the team in general really, demonstrated all the finishing ability of Sara Winchester's general contractor?

 

Stamkos may not be Ovechkin, but Stamkos is an elite offensive (goal scoring) talent looking really likely to hit the market. An addition for no cost other than cash. Better than any other such player to do so in some time. Given the Sabres cap situation at present and for the foreseeable future, If the tires are not at least kicked I'd be disappointed.

[TrueBlueGED]

I agree.  Eichel's never going to shoot as much as Ovechkin and Stamkos, even if his shot is just as good (and I'm not totally sure it is).

 

Stamkos' shot is most definitely better than Jack's. But was it better as a rookie? 

[qwksndmonster]

Stamkos' shot is most definitely better than Jack's. But was it better as a rookie? 

Yeah, I have a hard time keeping focused on whether or not I'm referring to Eichel's current skills or how good I expect him to be.

 

How good I expect him to be: A faster, better Tavares.

[WildCard]

Not only is Jack a pass-first player, but how many of us remember early this past season where games were lost because his passes went for naught because his line mates, and the team in general really, demonstrated all the finishing ability of Sara Winchester's general contractor?

 

Stamkos may not be Ovechkin, but Stamkos is an elite offensive (goal scoring) talent looking really likely to hit the market. An addition for no cost other than cash. Better than any other such player to do so in some time. Given the Sabres cap situation at present and for the foreseeable future, If the tires are not at least kicked I'd be disappointed.

 

Preferring to play centre isn't the same thing as refusing to play wing. Also, people can change their outlook.

 

I don't want to compare Kane to Stamkos. Their finishing ability isn't on nearly the same level. Kane not being good with Jack means that other shoot-first players won't be either? Eichel is a pass-first player. We don't know that he and Stamkos wouldn't compliment each other very well. Stamkos can pass, too. But Eichel isn't a Stamkos type player. He's a playmaker, Stamkos is a Sniper.

 

It's great when Eichel starts shooting, too, because it opens up passing lanes for him. He's a complete offensive player. If we somehow do get Stamkos, I'd very much like to see what they can do together. But again, there are other lineup options as well.

Why would he change his outlook? I see this winger argument all the time, and I've never seen the rationale behind it other than he'll get to play with Jack.

 

Where is the proof that Stamkos is a sniper and Eichel a play maker? McDavid is a pass-first center, Eichel is nowhere near that level of pass first.

 

SOG:

 

Eichel: 81gp, 238 SOG (29th), 2.94 shots/game

 

Stamkos: 77gp, 216 SOG (43rd), 2.81 shots/game

 

Stamkos Rookie Season: 79gp, 181 SOG, 2.29 shots/game

  

Joe Thornton is a pass-first center. For comparison, he had 121 SOG. As a rookie, Eichel had more SOG than Stamkos, and yet one is the sniper and the other the play maker. I'm not staying Jack isn't a play maker, but I really, really don't agree that he's a pass-first center. (TBF Stamkos career shots/game is 3.20, hence the addition of the rookie season)

 

Ya, it's probably not. But it's still a good shot, and him having excellent on ice vision allowing him to create exceptionally well AND having a great shot with a knack for scoring goals are two things that go into making him that complete franchise talent. But there's no reason you can't have two guys on the ice that have great goal scoring ability, particularly when Eichel is a true pass-first centre.

 

Stamkos's hockey IQ is high enough that he would know how to play with Jack. I love Kane, but he would struggle more to structure his game in a way that complements Jack's, with less natural hockey smarts than Stamkos.

Hockey IQ or no, I just don't think they'd pair well together. Malkin and Crosby aren't dumb, and neither are Toews and Kane. I think you should separate that talent and let the dominate force and puck carrier on the line be your best player; don't put your two best guys on the ice at once and make the share. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by WildCard

[Thorny]

What about the stats for how many times Jack attempted a pass? The amount of shots he took doesn't really tell us anything, it's only half the data. From watching him play 81 games this season, he was very clearly a pass first player. To the point I was even yelling for him to shoot a bit more. All the scouting reports on Jack I've read highlight him as a playmaker first, and his play through the juniors, worlds, and 81 games this season confirmed this to me.

 

He's not as pass first as McDavid, and certainly not Thornton, but I didn't make those comparisons. He's more similar to Crosby in that regard. Crosby is a pass first player, but still take a lot of shots.

 

Crosby and Malkin do play together sometimes. How about Seguin, Benn and Sharp? All of those guys can snipe and they were looking pretty good together. Seguin by his own admission is a playmaker first, so that helps make it work. Just like Jack looks to set up his teammates first.

 

The good thing is, if we sign Stamkos, it doesn't matter who's right, in regards to if Eichel would mesh with Stamkos. There are tons of options for structuring the forwards. How about Stamkos with Reinhart? I'd like to see that too.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Thorny

[Sabel79]

I'm not saying that Stamkos needs to be brought into Bufflalo to play wing for Eichel so he can finish all his nice passes. (Would be nice, but still).

 

Bottom line, if I'm GMTM, I go to Stamkos' people and say: "You know, we've got an awful lot of centers with tons of skill. Maybe Steve would like to be part of that? You know, on the wing, dining on all the great feeds he's likely to get over the course of this exorbitant in both term and dollars contract?

 

He says he'd rather play center, well then. But it could be beautiful... I mean, goals. Actual pucks across the mothering line goals...

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm not sure I have the fortitude for another round of Stamkos debate, as the points haven't really changed :lol:

 

I'm very interested in Stamkos at a price I don't think there's a chance he signs for. If he was insulted by $8.5M x8 from Tampa, he would be okay with $9.5M x7 from us...why? I'm not interested in Stamkos at $11M (which is what I think he ultimately gets if he leaves Tampa) because I think it will prevent us from overhauling the blue line to the degree I view as necessary. If I'm way off on the price he'll command on the open market, or we find a way to shed some bad salary, the calculus changes considerably for me. 

 

Not advocating this, but I think investing $11M in Goligoski & Yandle makes us a better team next season than investing it in Stamkos. Admittedly, it's also considerably less fun. Obviously there are other options, just using this for illustration.

 

If we're insisting on a winger to play with Jack, getting Nash for peanuts (assuming NY will retain some salary). Nash at say $5.5M gets us somebody good for 25-40 goals while still leaving us the ability to improve the blue line.

[WildCard]

What about the stats for how many times Jack attempted a pass? The amount of shots he took doesn't really tell us anything, it's only half the data. From watching him play 81 games this season, he was very clearly a pass first player. To the point I was even yelling for him to shoot a bit more. All the scouting reports on Jack I've read highlight him as a playmaker first, and his play through the juniors, worlds, and 81 games this season confirmed this to me.

 

He's not as pass first as McDavid, and certainly not Thornton, but I didn't make those comparisons. He's more similar to Crosby in that regard. Crosby is a pass first player, but still take a lot of shots.

 

Crosby and Malkin do play together sometimes. How about Seguin, Benn and Sharp? All of those guys can snipe and they were looking pretty good together. Seguin by his own admission is a playmaker first, so that helps make it work. Just like Jack looks to set up his teammates first.

 

The good thing is, if we sign Stamkos, it doesn't matter who's right, in regards to if Eichel would mesh with Stamkos. There are tons of options for structuring the forwards. How about Stamkos with Reinhart? I'd like to see that too.

I disagree. Passing stats, if they did exist, would be meaningless. Think of all of the passes completely unrelated to play making in a given game. Passing it behind your net, passing it across the neutral zone, passing it off for a zone change, playing catch on the pp, etc. 

 

 

When Jack Eichel is on the ice, the pace of the play shifts; if players can't keep up, they are left behind. A consistent scoring threat on the ice, Eichel possesses next-level hockey-IQ, an elite-level skillset, and the natural size and work ethic to let him play his role as a scoring power center. All-in-all, Jack Eichel is that uncontainable, dynamic center that can make other players look out of place in his wake. (Curtis Joe, EP - See more at: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=191959#sthash.QZf0atb5.dpuf

 

We want him to shoot more because he has an incredible shot, not because he's a pass-first guy.

 

Seguin and Benn were split up, and Malkin/Crosby and Kane/Toews are only brought together in desperate situations to score a goal. Seguin being a play maker does not change my opinion on Jack

Edited May 30, 2016 by WildCard

[TrueBlueGED]

What about the stats for how many times Jack attempted a pass? The amount of shots he took doesn't really tell us anything, it's only half the data. From watching him play 81 games this season, he was very clearly a pass first player. To the point I was even yelling for him to shoot a bit more. All the scouting reports on Jack I've read highlight him as a playmaker first, and his play through the juniors, worlds, and 81 games this season confirmed this to me.

 

He's not as pass first as McDavid, and certainly not Thornton, but I didn't make those comparisons. He's more similar to Crosby in that regard. Crosby is a pass first player, but still take a lot of shots.

 

Crosby and Malkin do play together sometimes. How about Seguin, Benn and Sharp? All of those guys can snipe and they were looking pretty good together. Seguin by his own admission is a playmaker first, so that helps make it work. Just like Jack looks to set up his teammates first.

 

The good thing is, if we sign Stamkos, it doesn't matter who's right, in regards to if Eichel would mesh with Stamkos. There are tons of options for structuring the forwards. How about Stamkos with Reinhart? I'd like to see that too.

 

My initial lineup would be:

 

O'Reilly-Stamkos-competition

Girgensons-Eichel-Reinhart

Kane-Larsson-Gionta

[WildCard]

I'm not sure I have the fortitude for another round of Stamkos debate, as the points haven't really changed :lol:

 

I'm very interested in Stamkos at a price I don't think there's a chance he signs for. If he was insulted by $8.5M x8 from Tampa, he would be okay with $9.5M x7 from us...why? I'm not interested in Stamkos at $11M (which is what I think he ultimately gets if he leaves Tampa) because I think it will prevent us from overhauling the blue line to the degree I view as necessary. If I'm way off on the price he'll command on the open market, or we find a way to shed some bad salary, the calculus changes considerably for me. 

 

Not advocating this, but I think investing $11M in Goligoski & Yandle makes us a better team next season than investing it in Stamkos. Admittedly, it's also considerably less fun. Obviously there are other options, just using this for illustration.

 

If we're insisting on a winger to play with Jack, getting Nash for peanuts (assuming NY will retain some salary). Nash at say $5.5M gets us somebody good for 25-40 goals while still leaving us the ability to improve the blue line.

I still like Eriksson for a winger, depending on who long the deal is though