Eichel and Reinhart: The Dynamic Duo

[TrueBlueGED]

I find your perspective perplexing, especially since, I assume, you teach adults. Do all adults stop developing skills at age 25?  Also, we're talking about the NHL, where goalies aren't usually allowed on the ice until they're about 24 years old.  I'm a better guitar player at 40 than I was at 25. 

 

I think I'm looking at accusing you of having an unreasonable bias here (and NO, not a color bias, for all of those knee-jerk dumb-###### out there).  You seem more than ready to write Kane off, ostensibly due to his age, and no other factor(s).  Yes/no? 

 

I think there are certain skills where the development that can be achieved is limited because they require a high natural aptitude. Hockey sense and vision fall into that category for me. A similar comparison in another sport would be a quarterback's pocket presence. So it's not that I don't think he can improve, I just think there's an upper limit (a relatively low one, in this case) on what we should expect. Reinhart doesn't even have a full season under his belt and he's already consistently making good decisions, whereas Kane is not. I don't think that's due to any difference in effort.

 

While you may think I'm quick to write Kane off, I think I'm actively trying to avoid recency bias with the hot streak that line is on. The observations from 'Peg fans, that two different 'Peg coaches thought he fit better getting heavy minutes on a 3rd line, what many of us saw with our own eyes the great majority of their (Kane-Eichel) time together, Bylsma's own words in the offseason about why the combo may not work, and the stats all point to the Kane-Eichel combo being suboptimal. Maybe in an effort to avoid recency bias I'm introducing a healthy dose of confirmation bias which is leading me to be more firm in my stance than I might otherwise be, I think there's a lot more support to the notion that Kane and Eichel are better off apart than there is support for them being together. I'm open to changing my position, but I need more than a couple week hot streak to get me there, whereas I feel many are perfectly willing to dive head first at the first sign that this may work out long term.

 

I also feel my evaluation of Kane in general may be getting a little obscured by the fact I dislike the Kane-Eichel pairing. I love Kane, he can play on my team any day--I'll find room for a 20-25 goal forechecking monster who can play on the PK with his physical skills. I just think there are some shortcomings to his game and skill set that make it better for the team for him to be the offensive catalyst on his line rather than the running mate to a bigger star.

[K-9]

Is it possible that Kane has never enjoyed this level of surrounding talent on a line since he's been in the league? If so, I think a certain level of adjustment was/is necessary and that at the young age of 24 he can develop aspects of his game previously unable to be tapped. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[TrueBlueGED]

Is it possible that Kane has never enjoyed this level of surrounding talent on a line since he's been in the league? If so, I think a certain level of adjustment was/is necessary and that at the young age of 24 he can develop aspects of his game previously unable to be tapped. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Totally fair, and I won't discount that possibility. But neither will I fully buy into this after two weeks of hockey.

His continued lack of hockey sense.  Come out of the corner with the puck that he battled VERY hard to get and then tried to beat two guys to the slot only to lose it.  He does it time and again.  I love his hustle but when he gets the puck he routinely throws it away with a "Hope Play."  Very very frustrating because he could make better plays and keep Buffalo in possession of the puck, but instead he forces things.

 

I agree with your assessment. But I think what others are trying to get across is he's not making these plays due to low hockey sense, but because his teammates have always been so poor that he always felt it was the right play to try to brute force things--learning to use and trust better teammates is a process that doesn't happen instantly, especially when you have 6 years of experience telling you to do otherwise. Believe me I'm with you, but I can see why some would gravitate towards the alternative.

[Doohickie]

Kane with ROR and D-lo at practice

 

 

Girgs with Eichel and Reino

I'm not happy, but I'm not surprised. At least he left the duo together.

[inkman]

Only if the groom is Hoss and the wedding night is Selection Sunday.

:D

[jsb]

Am I the only one starting to get uncomfortable with the constant barrage of lack of hockey sense, vision etc... with regards to Kane and no-one else??? I hate the thought of even going there unless it's an obvious item but maybe we can find a different term to use to describe his Direct (north-south) style as opposed to a more possession style.

[...]

Mmm.  Well, I see "hockey sense" as a combination of intellect/wit, coaching/teaching, maturity/wisdom, and innate abilities.  I don't disagree that he may be at his natural ability ceiling.  I definitely do not think he is at his ceiling with maturity, which feeds into the remaining two factors.

 

Yes, he may make a poor decision off the walls at times...this doesn't happen all of the time.  I remember years ago after complaining about Ennis or someone like him (maybe Roy..?) that he seems to always lose the puck, and the response was that he may seem to lose the puck a lot but that's only because he's generating a lot of chances.  Okay.  Present day Kane could fit that description. 

 

But we have seen with out own eyes, recently, yes, that his instincts also swing the opposite way.  His instincts helped make that tic-tac-toe-tic play happen.  His instincts made that glorious Eichel 1-second-left goal happen. 

 

When I see stuff like that, and in Evander's case, being clearly maturity-challenged coming into the organization, but being a smart person who is, in my view, motivated to contribute positively to the team (and, by extension, his career), I see a guy whose "hockey sense" can evolve into something that utilizes his talent better.

 

This isn't a case like Stafford, who seemed not very motivated in general, not quite as smart, and not quite as skilled, where those flashes were obvious anomalies.  I believe Kane has more to give, and is willing to try and get there.

Am I the only one starting to get uncomfortable with the constant barrage of lack of hockey sense, vision etc... with regards to Kane and no-one else??? I hate the thought of even going there unless it's an obvious item but maybe we can find a different term to use to describe his Direct (north-south) style as opposed to a more possession style.

 

Eichel makes similar "hockey sense" errors at times, yet it's said he's still "learning the game".  I don't understand why Kane can't still be learning the game.

 

Do we need to point out the elite players who make mistakes?  I mean, you don't get Kane's production if he's always making "hockey sense" errors, yet, here he is, handicapped because of his hockey IQ. 

 

I believe, in the case of someone like Kane, there can be improvements to the mental game.  I don't believe this would apply to everyone (like Stafford), but it can be true for some.

 

I guess we'll see!  I could be wrong.

Edited March 14, 2016 by SiZzlEmeIsTEr

[TrueBlueGED]

:D

 

I'm glad somebody caught that. I was really proud of it!

 

 

Am I the only one starting to get uncomfortable with the constant barrage of lack of hockey sense, vision etc... with regards to Kane and no-one else??? I hate the thought of even going there unless it's an obvious item but maybe we can find a different term to use to describe his Direct (north-south) style as opposed to a more possession style.

 

If you want to say it go ahead and say it, but to say nobody else has gotten criticized for hockey sense is simply inaccurate: Bogosian, Weber, and Ennis are all guys who during this season have had their instincts criticized. Seriously, dig up some of the Ennis commentary from early in the year.

[Randall Flagg]

Mmm.  Well, I see "hockey sense" as a combination of intellect/wit, coaching/teaching, maturity/wisdom, and innate abilities.  I don't disagree that he may be at his natural ability ceiling.  I definitely do not think he is at his ceiling with maturity, which feeds into the remaining two factors.

 

Yes, he may make a poor decision off the walls at times...this doesn't happen all of the time.  I remember years ago after complaining about Ennis or someone like him (maybe Roy..?) that he seems to always lose the puck, and the response was that he may seem to lose the puck a lot but that's only because he's generating a lot of chances.  Okay.  Present day Kane could fit that description. 

 

But we have seen with out own eyes, recently, yes, that his instincts also swing the opposite way.  His instincts helped make that tic-tac-toe-tic play happen.  His instincts made that glorious Eichel 1-second-left goal happen. 

 

When I see stuff like that, and in Evander's case, being clearly maturity-challenged coming into the organization, but being a smart person who is, in my view, motivated to contribute positively to the team (and, by extension, his career), I see a guy whose "hockey sense" can evolve into something that utilizes his talent better.

 

This isn't a case like Stafford, who seemed not very motivated in general, not quite as smart, and not quite as skilled, where those flashes were obvious anomalies.  I believe Kane has more to give, and is willing to try and get there.

 

Eichel makes similar "hockey sense" errors at times, yet it's said he's still "learning the game".  I don't understand why Kane can't still be learning the game.

 

Do we need to point out the elite players who make mistakes?  I mean, you don't get Kane's production if he's always making "hockey sense" errors, yet, here he is, handicapped because of his hockey IQ. 

 

I believe, in the case of someone like Kane, there can be improvements to the mental game.  I don't believe this would apply to everyone (like Stafford), but it can be true for some.

 

I guess we'll see!  I could be wrong.

I am ready to believe that Kane has changed his game, playing with these guys, but I do believe that if Eichel is still making those errors (which do get pointed out) when he's 24, it will probably be a bigger thing on this board than it has been this year with Kane.

[...]

I am ready to believe that Kane has changed his game, playing with these guys, but I do believe that if Eichel is still making those errors (which do get pointed out) when he's 24, it will probably be a bigger thing on this board than it has been this year with Kane.

 

Very fair point, all I am trying to argue is that everyone's development is different.  I think it's safe to say that Eichel seems a more mature person than Kane...now.  To me, that plays a huge factor.  Once Kane's decision-making-vector matures, then so does his hockey IQ. 

 

You know, we could be discussing any other player, and I wouldn't be so adamant about the point, there's just something about the Kane narrative that makes me believe he can kick it up a notch.  Again, I could be wrong, though.

[TrueBlueGED]

I am ready to believe that Kane has changed his game, playing with these guys, but I do believe that if Eichel is still making those errors (which do get pointed out) when he's 24, it will probably be a bigger thing on this board than it has been this year with Kane.

 

What I'm hung up on isn't that he's 24, it's that he's 24 and in his 7th season. If he were 24 and in year 2 or 3, I'd be quite a bit more optimistic about his hockey sense evolving in a major way.

 

Very fair point, all I am trying to argue is that everyone's development is different.  I think it's safe to say that Eichel seems a more mature person than Kane...now.  To me, that plays a huge factor.  Once Kane's decision-making-vector matures, then so does his hockey IQ. 

 

You know, we could be discussing any other player, and I wouldn't be so adamant about the point, there's just something about the Kane narrative that makes me believe he can kick it up a notch.  Again, I could be wrong, though.

 

I certainly hope you're right--if he learns to play nicely in the top-6 that's a huge win for the team.

[nfreeman]

What I'm hung up on isn't that he's 24, it's that he's 24 and in his 7th season. If he were 24 and in year 2 or 3, I'd be quite a bit more optimistic about his hockey sense evolving in a major way.

 

 

Totally fair, but his first 5 seasons were spent in a pretty dysfunctional setting for hockey learning/development and his 6th was a washout due to injury and other issues (some of which were, to be sure, of his own making). 

 

If GMTM and DDB are successful in building the team and educating the players the right way, Kaner will have the opportunity to grow his game substantially -- while playing with better linemates than he's ever had before.  So I don't think he's at his ceiling.  In the meantime, he brings what he has relentlessly, and it's been pretty effective so far.

[That Aud Smell]

In the meantime, he brings what he has relentlessly, and it's been pretty effective so far.

 

That is one thing that can and should be said for him: The guy is going 110 miles per hour (on the ice) at just about all times.

[Jsixspd]

This is actually happening.

 

 

I thought I was joking, too. But then I saw the line combos as practice today and Kane was back with ROR with DeLo on the wing. DD had Girgs skating with Eichel/Reinhart, which I wouldn't have a problem with, but doesn't DD believe in keeping a hot line intact as least until they've cooled off? 

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Big time face-palm for this decision.   smh!    Would Babcock have done this if we could have got him?  

[dudacek]

Great discussion on hockey sense here.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone with all the 40-somethings on here in saying I wish I knew how to play the game the way I do now when my body was able to take advantage of it.

 

There is absolutely no doubt that veterans keep changing and adapting. He may be exceptional, but look no further than Jaromir Jagr today compared to when he was Kane's age.

 

People change. Players rise and fall based on their mental approach all the time.

Edited March 14, 2016 by dudacek

[jsb]

Girgensons will bring the effort and maybe a little better skill and hopefully this will be his big chance to be more productive also. To see if he truly fits with the kids or maybe as trade bait in the offseason. Right now he won't bring squat but if he can get it going that can still change

[dudacek]

Not happy with the switch, but Girgs can play the Kane role and maybe this opportunity can jumpstart him from his funk.

[K-9]

Girgensons will bring the effort and maybe a little better skill and hopefully this will be his big chance to be more productive also. To see if he truly fits with the kids or maybe as trade bait in the offseason. Right now he won't bring squat but if he can get it going that can still change

Interesting point about the possibility of showcasing Girgs for a trade down the road. I imagine he was desired in many of the trade talks GMTM has had. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[inkman]

Girgensons will bring the effort and maybe a little better skill...

A little better than Evander? Different but I'm not sure if better is the right word.

[clintwestwood]

The same guy who wouldn't put Pysyk back in the line up after a long injury because the team was on a two game win streak is now breaking up our triple threat  :cry:

[jsb]

A little better than Evander? Different but I'm not sure if better is the right word.

I stand corrected!!!! 

[3putt]

You are not paying ROR the money he is, will be, making and not give him some playmakers to work with.  I see this as an inevitability. I think he warrants better than DLo as well.

[...]

You are not paying ROR the money he is, will be, making and not give him some playmakers to work with. I see this as an inevitability. I think he warrants better than DLo as well.

Good point, and I suppose this is where Ennis and an UFA fit in to the puzzle. But I don't agree with it.

 

Why not keep the Eichel line together to see where they take it the rest of the season? There is nothing to lose but more time IMHO.

 

I'm ready to start the Fire Bylsma Twitter account.

[3putt]

You could lose the support of ROR if he doesn't think he is being put in a position to excel. Your correct that a piece or two is needed, but Kane ROR can take heat off of EICHEL, Sam and Girgs.

[French Collection]

Ennis could fit in with ROR and EK. This is Zemgus' chance to fly with the duo.

Longer term, one of the top wingers from this year's draft or Fasching, Bailey, Baptiste.

People dream about Stamkos but I think he buys into the Leafs 50 year rebuild plan. We should not pay what they will.

Maybe GMTM makes a summer deal for a solid scoring winger.