2016-'17 Lineup

[Randall Flagg]

Wish Moulson would clean up his 5v5 play.

 

So if Risto was a - 41 but had 102pts you would be upset at his defensive play?

I'm not sure those numbers would be possible :lol:

[WildCard]

Wish Moulson would clean up his 5v5 play.

 

So if Risto was a - 41 but had 102pts you would be upset at his defensive play?

Makes me wonder what Karlsson largest - is

[pi2000]

Wish Moulson would clean up his 5v5 play.

 

So if Risto was a - 41 but had 102pts you would be upset at his defensive play?

 

Yea know, I have better ways to spend my time, NM have at it.

 

Haha, he would have to be invisible in the d-zone.

 

I certainly wouldn't offer him an 8-year deal.

[Randall Flagg]

Risto has never had an Orr/Coffey like season, nor do we expect him to.     However, he's in his 4rd NHL season, I do expect to see him improve his +/-.    It's one thing if he's on a terrible defensive team with a huge minus team goal differential... but he's not.    BUF as a team was -21 in goal differential... the fact that, relative to the team goal differential, Risto was a -21 tells me he needs to improve defensively.    There are several plays this season where his mistake lead directly to goals, and not against guys like Crosby or McDavid... guys like Gallagher and Tkachuk... I expect our #1 d-man to shut those plays down or at least don't make the turnover which leads to those goals.   

 

1.) Matt Moulson has had three 30g seasons so it's not out of the question that he can repeat that performance on a top line with the way he's playing.

 

 

 

That's fantastic!  I hope he keeps up the offensive production while cleaning up his defensive miscues.  

 

 

 

2.) Defensemen defend.   They're down low in the zone and they lead the break out.    Generally speaking (system agnostic) any breakdown down low, or turnovers on the break out, lead directly to scoring chances the other way.     Over the course of an 82 game season if your best defenseman is severely in the red +/-, that's doesn't speak well for his ability to defend.    

 

That said, if Risto was -10 or less, then yeah, that's likely just a product of his competition and who else he's on the ice with, not enough of difference (from zero) to make any generalizations about his ability to defend.    But when he's the minus 20's and 30's two years in a row, that means something.  

1.) Pi, those seasons were years ago. Are you honestly ignoring the total breakdown of his abilities over the past three seasons? He can get back to 30 goal seasons when he finds the fountain of youth. Projecting numbers from four games is garbage. Auston Matthews is Gretzky, huh.

 

2.) And forwards score. If Moulson and Risto get equal ice time against equal opponents, and both are - 20, you cannot say that one is more disappointing than the other in that area. When you take into account who they play against, the difference is absolutely laughable, and so it would be equally laughable to rag on Risto harder for his minus than Moulson for his. Your arguments are weak and border on absurd. And I've been extremely critical of Ristolainen to start the season, I don't think he's been good, and I'm impressed with the work Moulson put in. The standards you hold your players to don't make sense and are easily demolished. You use a projection for a washed-up has-been (If Gretzky got an assist in one game if he suited up this year because McDavid took a pass and did something amazing, would it be reasonable to suggest that he could pot 100 points if he finished the year? No, it wouldn't.) and then when we turn it around and use it on the other guy it's "nope, that's dumb." 

 

Projections from four games, and plus minus ON TANK TEAMS (this again?? come on dude) are trash and have repeatedly been shown to be trash. 

 

I don't know why I'm falling for the bait. I'm out.

[pi2000]

1.) Pi, those seasons were years ago. Are you honestly ignoring the total breakdown of his abilities over the past three seasons? He can get back to 30 goal seasons when he finds the fountain of youth. Projecting numbers from four games is garbage. Auston Matthews is Gretzky, huh.

 

2.) And forwards score. If Moulson and Risto get equal ice time against equal opponents, and both are - 20, you cannot say that one is more disappointing than the other in that area. When you take into account who they play against, the difference is absolutely laughable, and so it would be equally laughable to rag on Risto harder for his minus than Moulson for his. Your arguments are weak and border on absurd. And I've been extremely critical of Ristolainen to start the season, I don't think he's been good, and I'm impressed with the work Moulson put in. The standards you hold your players to don't make sense and are easily demolished. You use a projection for a washed-up has-been (If Gretzky got an assist in one game if he suited up this year because McDavid took a pass and did something amazing, would it be reasonable to suggest that he could pot 100 points if he finished the year? No, it wouldn't.) and then when we turn it around and use it on the other guy it's "nope, that's dumb." 

 

Projections from four games, and plus minus ON TANK TEAMS (this again?? come on dude) are trash and have repeatedly been shown to be trash. 

 

I don't know why I'm falling for the bait. I'm out.

 

I'll concede your point about the +/-, I wasn't really thinking of it that way.    However, I will say that traditionally forwards are judged by offensive output... easy to track goals and assists.     Judging defensemen is more tricky, which is where the +/- stat originated... to track the effectiveness of defensemen.    Up until the 2007-2008, there was an NHL award handed out for the player with the best +/-.   In fact, defensive stalwart Thomas Vanek won the award in 2006-07... wait. a. minute.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The Monday D pairings were:

 

Gorges Risto

Kulikov Bogosian

McCabe Franson

 

DD wants to get Kulikov more PT so McCabe gets paired with Franson,  The biggest problem continues to be Franson.  

[WildCard]

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/reinhart-switch-to-center/c-283041494

It's been a bit less than two weeks since the Sabres lost Eichel and Kane to injury, and Bylsma offered updates on their status on Monday. Bylsma said that Eichel (high-ankle sprain) remains in a walking boot and will continue to proceed with caution, while Kane's timetable (cracked ribs) for a return is still "weeks."

 

"It's more of a pain and discomfort than anything at this point in time," Bylsma said of Kane's injury. "He should be able to start moving here shortly. Not crazily, but he should be able to start moving shortly and kind of go from there."

Edited October 25, 2016 by WildCard

[GASabresIUFAN]

My biggest concern with Reinhart at center on a line with Ennis is I fear that they will be physically dominated.  I hope Big Z is willing to serve as a corner man and protector to the small Ennis and smallish Reinhart.

 

I'm kind of excited to see if ROR can create the same kind of chemistry with Moulson and Okposo that Johnny T did.  I'm going to be optimistic and think that this line is going to work,  If so, what are the ramifications  for the team once Eichel and Evander return?

 

Could we look like this in 6-8 weeks?

Moulson ROR Okposo

Ennis Eichel Reinhart

Foligno Larsson Gionta

Kane Girgensons Deslauriers

Grant

Edited October 25, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[pi2000]

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/reinhart-switch-to-center/c-283041494

Typically Eichel's injury only requires 10 days in a boot. Wonder if it's more serious.

 

And Kane can start moving soon? What has he been lying motionless for the last 10 days? I guess thats good news.

My biggest concern with Reinhart at center on a line with Ennis is I fear that they will be physically dominated. I hope Big Z is willing to serve as a corner man and protector to the small Ennis and smallish Reinhart.

I wouldn't consider Reinhart small, he's 6'2. He needs to grow up mentally.

[Thorny]

Okay, just looked at Sharp's career stats. I forgot how good he was before he got old.

From a production standpoint I like the comparison, but not so much stylistically. Despite having more goals last year, Reinhart is more of a distributor, and Sharp I believe is more of a sniper.

 

I know we love having LHD paired with RHD, but how common is that in real life? Isn't there a shortage of RHD league-wide?

 

I remember Detroit recently having ONLY LHD in their top 6.

 

Trying to remember past Sabres teams, Numminen was RHD, Lydman/Tallinder/Kalinin/Campbell/McKee were all LHD. That was 05/06

I did some research a while back and the majority of teams adhered to the LHD with RHD formula to a reasonably high degree. I can't remember the numbers and I'm not looking for the post :p

 

This is getting a bit overwrought, IMHO. 

 

DDB is an experienced and accomplished coach.  Reino is a very young player with a ton of potential, but he's far from an established star.  He's also not a particularly good skater.  And, he's a guy who the team is relying on to produce offense -- but the team has scored 4 goals in their 3 losses.

 

I don't think DDB wanting Reino to move his feet and play faster is a-tall a crazy thing for DDB to say.

5 goals, but ya, I take your point.

 

Context means something.

Hearing the sound bite, it was Dan dumping on Sam.

Watching the entire clip, it was Dan saying the team needs more offence and Sam is one of those guys who needs to supply it.

Entirely fair.

And now we have a puck distributor between two fast wingers as our second line.

As Flaggmsays, given the roster could be a lot worse.

Yup, having a top 6 of:

 

Moulson - O'Reilly - Okposo

Ennis - Reinhart - Girgensons

 

...is something I think will give us more balance, and getting Sam reps in his natural position is a good thing, too.

[jsb]

I wouldn't consider Reinhart small, he's 6'2. He needs to grow up mentally.

I agree less smallish and more wussiness is his issue.

[LGR4GM]

My biggest concern with Reinhart at center on a line with Ennis is I fear that they will be physically dominated. I hope Big Z is willing to serve as a corner man and protector to the small Ennis and smallish Reinhart.

 

How small is Reinhart? Seriously I want you to go look it up and get back to us.

 

#themythcontinues

I wouldn't consider Reinhart small, he's 6'2. He needs to grow up mentally.

I don't know what you mean by this, "mentally"

[Brawndo]

If Nelson is consistently going to be the healthy scratch on D, wouldn't he be better served playing Top 4 Minutes in Rochester?

[Thorny]

If Nelson is consistently going to be the healthy scratch on D, wouldn't he be better served playing Top 4 Minutes in Rochester?

 

You would think so. It's puzzling because they seem to be taking this approach with the forwards. When Lehner is healthy and Ullmark isn't up, we seem to be carrying a roster of only 21 players, with Nelson being the only healthy scratch. No forward scratches right now. With Eichel and Kane of course on IR. 

[pi2000]

If Nelson is consistently going to be the healthy scratch on D, wouldn't he be better served playing Top 4 Minutes in Rochester?

 

They need a 7th d-man with the team.   Who else is there?   Would you rather have Strachan or Falk or Fedun?

 

Nelson is already 24 years old, it's not like he needs development time in Rochester.. and he's probably the best skater available at that position in the stable.   

How small is Reinhart? Seriously I want you to go look it up and get back to us.

 

#themythcontinues

 

I don't know what you mean by this, "mentally"

 

His approach to the game needs to mature.    He's not taking the bull by the horns so to speak.   I love the way he thinks the game, but sometimes he needs to dial back on analysis and dial up the intensity, desperation.    Analysis paralysis, eg that OT play against CGY.   

[LGR4GM]

They need a 7th d-man with the team.   Who else is there?   Would you rather have Strachan or Falk or Fedun?

 

Nelson is already 24 years old, it's not like he needs development time in Rochester.. and he's probably the best skater available at that position in the stable.   

 

His approach to the game needs to mature.    He's not taking the bull by the horns so to speak.   I love the way he thinks the game, but sometimes he needs to dial back on analysis and dial up the intensity, desperation.    Analysis paralysis, eg that OT play against CGY.   

I think Reinhart lacks confidence and needs to gain it. Mentally he is processing the game just fine and I can only think of that 1 example where he overthought. 

[inkman]

If Nelson is consistently going to be the healthy scratch on D, wouldn't he be better served playing Top 4 Minutes in Rochester?

Amerks play almost all Fridays and Saturdays this season. He played in both Buffalo and Rochester last week. I'd expect the same moving forward Sans road trips.

[pi2000]

I think Reinhart lacks confidence and needs to gain it. Mentally he is processing the game just fine and I can only think of that 1 example where he overthought. 

 

I guess "mentally" wasn't the word I was looking for.... spiritually maybe?   Needs to have more of a fighting spirit... like O'Reilly who just never gives up on plays ever love that guy, need to see more of that in Reinhart.

[qwksndmonster]

I guess "mentally" wasn't the word I was looking for.... spiritually maybe? Needs to have more of a fighting spirit... like O'Reilly who just never gives up on plays ever love that guy, need to see more of that in Reinhart.

I agree. That's the next big step Samson needs to take if he's going to be a special player. Edited October 25, 2016 by qwksndmonster

[Thorny]

I guess "mentally" wasn't the word I was looking for.... spiritually maybe?   Needs to have more of a fighting spirit... like O'Reilly who just never gives up on plays ever love that guy, need to see more of that in Reinhart.

 

Reinhart considers himself more of a spiritual person than a religious person. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I'm going to use the finesse word. Sam, despite the goals around the net last year, is really a finesse type player. He is also the 3rd lightest Sabre forward behind Gionta and Ennis. Putting two finesse players together makes me worry about ouck possession. Big Z is the guy who is going to have the dig the puck out, forecheck etc... Hopefully it works.

 

As to Nelson, his skating and offense are NHL ready. His D isn't. So the question becomes is he better off learning D in Buffalo and practicing against NHL players while also being sent down for some weekend games in Roch or playing full-time in Roch. I vote for keeping him in Buffalo.

 

One other note. Has anyone else looked at how good our Faceoff stats are so far. I think it has been one of the keys to the PK.

Edited October 25, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

I'm going to use the finesse word. Sam, despite the goals around the net last year, is really a finesse type player. He is also the 3rd lightest Sabre forward behind Gionta and Ennis. Putting two finesse players together makes me worry about ouck possession. Big Z is the guy who is going to have the dig the puck out, forecheck etc... Hopefully it works.

 

As to Nelson, his skating and offense are NHL ready. His D isn't. So the question becomes is he better off learning D in Buffalo and practicing against NHL players while also being sent down for some weekend games in Roch or playing full-time in Roch. I vote for keeping him in Buffalo.

 

I don't see a problem with having 2 "skill" guys on a line (using that word instead of finesse), as long as they aren't afraid to go to the dirty areas, and there is at least one hard-nosed player on the line (Girgs). As Sam has shown, he isn't afraid to go to the net front. 

[jsb]

I'm going to use the finesse word. Sam, despite the goals around the net last year, is really a finesse type player. 

I completely agree with this. I'm not as sure as some that he's an NHL center. Although I'll be the first to admit I am wrong and hoping that I am. He'll definitely be on my radar to see how he does. He has the skills I just don't see the explosion in his game. Again I'm hoping I'm very wrong.

[inkman]

I completely agree with this. I'm not as sure as some that he's an NHL center. Although I'll be the first to admit I am wrong and hoping that I am. He'll definitely be on my radar to see how he does. He has the skills I just don't see the explosion in his game. Again I'm hoping I'm very wrong.

If you are waiting for explosion from Sam Reinhart, you are going to be waiting a long time. Sam is a smart, slick player. He's not Patrick Kane or Alex Mogilny.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't see a problem with having 2 "skill" guys on a line (using that word instead of finesse), as long as they aren't afraid to go to the dirty areas, and there is at least one hard-nosed player on the line (Girgs). As Sam has shown, he isn't afraid to go to the net front.

 

ROR and Okposo are skill guys but they aren't finesse players. Reinhart and Ennis need space to be effective and aren't really good at creating it. Reinhart in front of the net on the PP is a seperate issue.