Fidelio Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 No. Not even close. Payment should not be involved in any way, shape or form unless it is done in a cival lawsuit. Kane, or any other person that has committed a crime, should not be able to buy out of their wrong doing. Why? You rob a convenience store you get arrested. You murder someone you get arrested. You don't buy yourself out of that. This entire idea that back door deals are acceptable and the incident goes away is, to me, the ultimate insult to rape victims. Let a guy get away with something because he has money. Meanwhile, Joe no money gets 20 years in prison. It is BS. As for the prostitute comment. If a woman has consensual sex with a guy only to turn around and claim she was a victim as a pay day source is a prostitute and a complete scumbag. Why wouldn't she be considered that? What else do you call someone that makes money from having sex? The only difference is her pay day is much larger and more public. AGAIN, I am talking in generalities not specific to this case. Her father is a lawyer.. This reeks of treachery.... like Gone Girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Her father is a lawyer.. This reeks of treachery.... like Gone Girl. No... No he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 That's an amusing comment, seeing as all you've done in your past few posts is look at it from your perspective, and what you determine justice to be. In the midst of your rant about how monetary settlement shouldn't influence criminal charges, did you once stop to think what criminal charges mean for the victim? You were happy to tell us what you'd want and not want if your daughter were the victim, but never once said what she might want. Your posts reek of someone who has never really thought about what a rape trial means for the victim, let alone read something about it or talked to somebody who has been sexually assaulted. The biggest problem with rape cases is there is often a lack of physical evidence that rape has occurred, so they devolve into a he said she said situation, which of course necessitates the victim taking the stand. Rape is about the most traumatic experience a woman can go through, and the trial makes them go through it twice--it inflicts more pain, and can delay the emotional healing process. Additionally, any decent defense will tear apart her past and try to perform a character assassination, since the entire case is dependent upon the victim's credibility. All of this in front of friends and family, for the very questionable likelihood of conviction. What if the victim goes through all of that, only to see the defendant walk? Is that really a preferable outcome to taking a settlement and trying to move on with life? I admire the women who choose to take that path, but the notion that a woman who chooses to forego that in favor of a settlement somehow destroys her credibility is, to be frank, completely absurd. Having seen first hand the severe and long-term effects rape can have on a victim, I completely understand a woman opting against re-living the experience and wanting to get the healing process started as soon as possible, even if it means some level of societal justice isn't possible. The effects can be that severe. I sincerely hope nothing ever happens to your daughter, but if it does, I also very sincerely hope you take into account her wishes on how to move forward rather than passing judgment upon her from your high horse. Is a settlement even appropriate? If it is, what's appropriate beyond enough for counseling, medical treatment and the like? Should a portion of it go to a charity? I would hope you'd agree that a victim and a victim's family acting like they just won the PowerBall would be very inappropriate. "Honey, isn't this house great?" "This came from that time Jen got raped, right?" "Yeah, but these appliances are all stainless steel." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 No. Not even close. Payment should not be involved in any way, shape or form unless it is done in a cival lawsuit. Kane, or any other person that has committed a crime, should not be able to buy out of their wrong doing. Why? You rob a convenience store you get arrested. You murder someone you get arrested. You don't buy yourself out of that. This entire idea that back door deals are acceptable and the incident goes away is, to me, the ultimate insult to rape victims. Let a guy get away with something because he has money. Meanwhile, Joe no money gets 20 years in prison. It is BS. As for the prostitute comment. If a woman has consensual sex with a guy only to turn around and claim she was a victim as a pay day source is a prostitute and a complete scumbag. Why wouldn't she be considered that? What else do you call someone that makes money from having sex? The only difference is her pay day is much larger and more public. AGAIN, I am talking in generalities not specific to this case. I see where you're coming from and I agree to a point. If Kane did something blatantly wrong, without a doubt, then he should be punished. If there is any gray area, it shouldn't be allowed to get settled out of court. Understandably this is an emotional topic but at some point people need to realize that she may not be as innocent as many are trying to make her out to be. I'm not saying she isn't......... I'm just saying too many people aren't accepting all possibilities. If she goes for the $$$ she must not be too serious about landing him in prison, or she knows that she doesn't have much of a case and Kane will hand over a blank check just to end it and move on with his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 at some point people need to realize that she may not be as innocent as many are trying to make her out to be. This is where you prove you've missed the point people are making. Posters know nothing about her. They're not trying to make her anything but the alleged victim she is. We're not trying to make her anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 That's an amusing comment, seeing as all you've done in your past few posts is look at it from your perspective, and what you determine justice to be. In the midst of your rant about how monetary settlement shouldn't influence criminal charges, did you once stop to think what criminal charges mean for the victim? You were happy to tell us what you'd want and not want if your daughter were the victim, but never once said what she might want. Your posts reek of someone who has never really thought about what a rape trial means for the victim, let alone read something about it or talked to somebody who has been sexually assaulted. The biggest problem with rape cases is there is often a lack of physical evidence that rape has occurred, so they devolve into a he said she said situation, which of course necessitates the victim taking the stand. Rape is about the most traumatic experience a woman can go through, and the trial makes them go through it twice--it inflicts more pain, and can delay the emotional healing process. Additionally, any decent defense will tear apart her past and try to perform a character assassination, since the entire case is dependent upon the victim's credibility. All of this in front of friends and family, for the very questionable likelihood of conviction. What if the victim goes through all of that, only to see the defendant walk? Is that really a preferable outcome to taking a settlement and trying to move on with life? I admire the women who choose to take that path, but the notion that a woman who chooses to forego that in favor of a settlement somehow destroys her credibility is, to be frank, completely absurd. Having seen first hand the severe and long-term effects rape can have on a victim, I completely understand a woman opting against re-living the experience and wanting to get the healing process started as soon as possible, even if it means some level of societal justice isn't possible. The effects can be that severe. I sincerely hope nothing ever happens to your daughter, but if it does, I also very sincerely hope you take into account her wishes on how to move forward rather than passing judgment upon her from your high horse. When I get more time I will explain to you how educated I am on rape. I will also tell you the last thing my daughter would ever want from her rapist is his money. So please don't tell me to get off my high horse. So you think because of the emotional distress rape causes some woman that it is OK for that woman to be compensated all the while the rapist goes free and probably harms another woman. Come on man!! You think a family that lost a child to a murderer enjoys going to trial and reliving that? A rape is a horrific crime but so are numerous other crimes. If we let settlements become a way of moving on then we are in deep . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 When I get more time I will explain to you how educated I am on rape. I will also tell you the last thing my daughter would ever want from her rapist is his money. So please don't tell me to get off my high horse. So you think because of the emotional distress rape causes some woman that it is OK for that woman to be compensated all the while the rapist goes free and probably harms another woman. Come on man!! You think a family that lost a child to a murderer enjoys going to trial and reliving that? A rape is a horrific crime but so are numerous other crimes. If we let settlements become a way of moving on then we are in deep ######. 1) With respect, this is the kind of thing that you don't know who will want what until it happens. All I'm saying is judgment shouldn't be passed if you aren't the one in those shoes, and if you are in those shoes, that the choice you make is not the only acceptable choice. 2) Okay in what sense? I'm not happy that a rapist walks, but it is both understandable and justifiable if the woman does not choose to go the trial route. It's also roughly a coin flip as to whether a trial even produces a conviction, so opting that route there's a pretty good chance you end up with literally nothing. 3) Apples and oranges. In the great majority of murder cases the case doesn't hinge on the parents' testimony and their potential character assassination. That's not to downplay what they're going through, but it's a very different dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidelio Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 No... No he isn't. SOO you know the victims identity and relations enough to refute this rumor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 http://www.wgr550.com/REPORT-New-Details-Emerge-in-Allegations-against-P/21839412 "While they were at Kane’s home, the accuser alleges she went by herself into another room by herself where Kane allegedly followed her, overpowered her and raped her sources of the Buffalo News said." Here is her version of what happened according to WGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Not that I ever frequented Skybar but the owner just strikes me wrong. That said here are more details than WGR published. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/new-details-emerge-in-allegations-against-nhl-star-patrick-kane-20150809 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Not that I ever frequented Skybar but the owner just strikes me wrong. That said here are more details than WGR published. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/new-details-emerge-in-allegations-against-nhl-star-patrick-kane-20150809 I think the owner is just literally relaying his own personal observations. But without any details from other sources, the News makes that the center of the story. We only have pieces of the story. That makes it uncomfortable for our human brains that like to assess and categorize things immediately because the instinct helps protect us from mountain lions and bears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Not according to WGR. They do no original reporting. WGR is just repeating what they read in the News. Here is the News link: http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/new-details-emerge-in-allegations-against-nhl-star-patrick-kane-20150809 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Not that I ever frequented Skybar but the owner just strikes me wrong. That said here are more details than WGR published. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/new-details-emerge-in-allegations-against-nhl-star-patrick-kane-20150809 Not according to WGR. They do no original reporting. WGR is just repeating what they read in the News. Here is the News link: http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/new-details-emerge-in-allegations-against-nhl-star-patrick-kane-20150809 I am back PA :P I already had you covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Not that I ever frequented Skybar but the owner just strikes me wrong. That said here are more details than WGR published. http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/new-details-emerge-in-allegations-against-nhl-star-patrick-kane-20150809 It struck me wrong too. Very passive-aggressive. Hey, I have no skin in the game. ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Interesting article to checkout. http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/2015/02/17/kobe-bryant-says-colorado-sexual-assault-case-turning-point/12602/#disqus_thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 It struck me wrong too. Very passive-aggressive. Hey, I have no skin in the game. ha I don't like that guy at all. BTW, notice that the News has disabled comments for all of the Kane articles? That's no coincidence; it's to prevent the sort of commenting that Baffoe was railing against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 A guy that is at Kane's house with the Cup tweeted out a photo that was deleted moments later. He has been tweeting that Kane is not guilty and at one point said she is just a woman trying to ruin Kane's career... Not a good look to be spending time with this guy. Here is the photo: It's not a good look to go ahead with a Cup party, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 http://www.wgr550.com/REPORT-New-Details-Emerge-in-Allegations-against-P/21839412 "While they were at Kane’s home, the accuser alleges she went by herself into another room by herself where Kane allegedly followed her, overpowered her and raped her sources of the Buffalo News said." Here is her version of what happened according to WGR So, this is going to become a he-said she-said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Why the f*ck is the Buffalo News even printing this? But Croce told The News that he and several of his employees noticed a young woman “hanging all over” Kane at SkyBar for at least two hours that night, putting her hands on his arms and “being very forward, very flirtatious with him.” He said he does not know the woman and does not know her name. “I don’t know if this is the same woman who made the rape allegation against him,” Croce said. “I only know what I saw that night on my own premises. If you’re going to ask what happened between them after they left that night, how would I know?” "Hey boss, I got some quotes from the owner about some girls being flirtatious with Kane. He has NO IDEA if either was the alleged accuser though.""Eh f*ck it, publish the quotes anyway." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I know it's a loaded term, but rape culture is real. The sl_ut shaming in which Croce engages (to cover his own arse, BTW (Paddy wasn't drunk! We served him four drinks max!)) is despicable. That the paper published it is worse. Herbek knows better. Maybe his editors don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Why the f*ck is the Buffalo News even printing this? "Hey boss, I got some quotes from the owner about some girls being flirtatious with Kane. He has NO IDEA if either was the alleged accuser though." "Eh f*ck it, publish the quotes anyway." Considering that being flirty in a bar is not the same is consenting to sex an hour later, not the biggest fan of the owners comments. I had a girl make out with me hardcore in a bar once. she was very "handsie" as well. She declined to go any further which was fine. Being flirty in a bar doesn't equate to anything goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) @d4rk: Herbek is a good journalist, and a better man. I want to believe that stuff was published over his objection. And I can't believe we still need to confirm that being handsy and flirty in a bar doesn't equate with being "DTF." Edited August 9, 2015 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Why the f*ck is the Buffalo News even printing this? "Hey boss, I got some quotes from the owner about some girls being flirtatious with Kane. He has NO IDEA if either was the alleged accuser though." "Eh f*ck it, publish the quotes anyway." Because it sounds like Croce thinks it's the same woman, but can't say or know for sure. He does suggest they left together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 @d4rk: Herbek is a good journalist, and a better man. I want to believe that stuff was published over his objection. And I can't believe we still need to confirm that being handsy and flirty in a bar doesn't equate with being "DTF." right! the people. Alright Liger out for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Because it sounds like Croce thinks it's the same woman, but can't say or know for sure. He does suggest they left together. Does it matter? If he doesn't know it's the same woman then why publish the comments? And why make the comments anyway? Save it for the court room like a decent human being. Why allow a newspaper to conduct character assassination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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