pi2000 Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I expect Murray to make a run at one maybe two of the pending RFAs this summer (offer sheet or more likely via trade). some top RFAs... Dougie Hamilton* Tanner Pearson* Tyler Toffoli* Martin Jones* Brandon Saad* Derek Stepan Alex Galchenyuk* Nazeem Kadri Gustav Nyquist Vladimir Tarasenko Jake Allen Braden Holtby Michael Del Zotto* Yannick Weber* *- teams up against the cap RFA compensation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offer_sheet#Compensation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Saad is a no brainer right? I have been watching him closely and he is making things happen on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Saad has earned himself a huge paycheque this spring. Be very surprised if it's not the Hawks paying him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I hope Murray doesn't wimp out like Darcy used to, not wanting to offend anyone with an offer sheet. That being said, lets keep in mind how much you have to give up with these sheets. This chart is old, but I assume still at least in the ballpark: $1,110,249 or below - No Compensation Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks Edited June 11, 2015 by sabills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 At MOST, Sabres are giving up 1st, 2nd, 3rd and most likely, just a first and a 3rd. For 6 or seven strong years out of Saad, I have no problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Some teams can't even handle a 5 mill offer on their RFA's. Don't doubt they will match though. LA can be targetted really badly, could talk to other gm's and be like. You target pearson, we do toffoli and another for jones or something like that. :D Wouldn't mind seeing murray go after jones, only a 2nd round pick and doubt kings would match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 At MOST, Sabres are giving up 1st, 2nd, 3rd and most likely, just a first and a 3rd. For 6 or seven strong years out of Saad, I have no problem with that. I'll be suprised if Murray uses that 1st. He's said a couple times that he expects to be in the lottery next year (Read: not make the playoffs, not a full on tank), and the way its set up now its easier for the teams that are further away to get a shot at the first or second pick (both will be lottery picks next year, I think). I'm not sure he'll be willing to give up a free shot at Matthews. I also imagine that Chicago will cover any price for Saad, especially after this offseason. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I hope Murray doesn't wimp out like Darcy used to, not wanting to offend anyone with an offer sheet. That being said, lets keep in mind how much you have to give up with these sheets. This chart is old, but I assume still at least in the ballpark: $1,110,249 or below - No Compensation Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks So not making offers to RFA now makes a GM a wimp? You realize by that standard, eessentially every GM in the NHL is a wimp, right? As best as I can tell, Doug Wilson (Hjarlmarsson - 2010) and Jim Rutherford (Fedorov - 1998) are the only current GMs who have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I would be shocked if GMTM made an offer that included next years 1st round pick. Absolutely shocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) So not making offers to RFA now makes a GM a wimp? You realize by that standard, eessentially every GM in the NHL is a wimp, right? As best as I can tell, Doug Wilson (Hjarlmarsson - 2010) and Jim Rutherford (Fedorov - 1998) are the only current GMs who have done it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_who_have_signed_offer_sheets You could be right on the GM's, I don't feel like going through and figuring out the GM for each of those teams, but it does happen. Are the rest wimps? I mean, kinda yeah. You're not willing to take a shot at a great player because you're going to hurt some other GM's feelings? Sounds like a pretty lame excuse to me. This is pro sports doing something that's obviously in the rules of the CBA; its not like Murray would be Gordon Bombay stealing some kid from a rival team on a technicality. If you want the player and he's worth the money and picks you'd have to give up, then you should do it, and to hell with what the other teams think. Maybe they'll figure it out and start doing it themselves. I would be shocked if GMTM made an offer that included next years 1st round pick. Absolutely shocked. agreed Edited June 11, 2015 by sabills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Does it have to be your picks? If we had two firsts next year, could we choose which to give them? Saad for 6/7 years at 5mil would be great. Although that would just increase our glut of LW. Jones for 2 years at 3mil per would also make sense If Chicago drop Bickell, they basically have the money for Saad. That is what will probably happen - especially as you can go 10% over the cap in the offseason Edited June 11, 2015 by ThirtyEight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Does it have to be your picks? If we had two firsts next year, could we choose which to give them? Saad for 6/7 years at 5mil would be great. Although that would just increase our glut of LW. Jones for 2 years at 3mil per would also make sense If Chicago drop Bickell, they basically have the money for Saad. That is what will probably happen - especially as you can go 10% over the cap in the offseason Yes, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Between the overpayment that is needed so the current team won't match and then the inflated compensation required due to the offer, I'm hoping Murray stays away from RFAs. I'm not sure it's worth overpaying twice for a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_who_have_signed_offer_sheets You could be right on the GM's, I don't feel like going through and figuring out the GM for each of those teams, but it does happen. Are the rest wimps? I mean, kinda yeah. You're not willing to take a shot at a great player because you're going to hurt some other GM's feelings? Sounds like a pretty lame excuse to me. This is pro sports doing something that's obviously in the rules of the CBA; its not like Murray would be Gordon Bombay stealing some kid from a rival team on a technicality. If you want the player and he's worth the money and picks you'd have to give up, then you should do it, and to hell with what the other teams think. Maybe they'll figure it out and start doing it themselves. Respk pretty much just answered this for me, but the reason for not making this offer has nothing to do with "hurting some GMs feelings" as you're suggesting. You can't honestly thing that's what is going through someone's mind when they consider it, "Awww, I'm gonna hurt little Timmy's feelings". That's absurd. They don't do it because they don't find the price to be worth it, both in contract and in compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Respk pretty much just answered this for me, but the reason for not making this offer has nothing to do with "hurting some GMs feelings" as you're suggesting. You can't honestly thing that's what is going through someone's mind when they consider it, "Awww, I'm gonna hurt little Timmy's feelings". That's absurd. They don't do it because they don't find the price to be worth it, both in contract and in compensation. If its the payment you're concerned about, that's understandable. But Darcy said several times over the years that he wouldn't do it for fear of upsetting other GM's, which might make trading harder in the future, and I think that's weaksauce Couple articles on this "gentleman's agreement: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/trending-topics-on-the-moral-hazards-of-extending-offer-sheets?urn=nhl,wp8377 http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/07/why-are-nhl-offer-sheets-so-rare.html Those articles mention a couple reasons they don't happen more, including players not wanting to sign them to begin with, so it seems theres a few reasons for it. Edited June 11, 2015 by sabills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Saad has earned himself a huge paycheque this spring. Be very surprised if it's not the Hawks paying him. They'll likely try to move Bickell, but at $4mil per for the next 2 seasons for a guy who scored only 14 goals this season and 11 the year prior, it won't be easy. $4mil/yr might be enough for a 2-3 year bridge deal for Saad. I think the more likely scenario is they trade Sharp, which free's up $5.9mi. He's a 25-30 goal scorer, and at 33yrs old, still has a few years left in the tank. Might be a good mentor for a younger team with plenty of cap space. Maybe a pick or two and a second tier prospect gets it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I would be shocked if GMTM made an offer that included next years 1st round pick. Absolutely shocked. Unless he goes after Tarasenko! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Kevin Lowe offered Vanek a huge contract that Darcy matched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Unless he goes after Tarasenko! Well, that's going to be a $9.1+ mill deal. Ready to give up 4 first rounders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Well, that's going to be a $9.1+ mill deal. Ready to give up 4 first rounders? Only a guarantee for a Cup would make that worth it and we know that's not possible. Way too big of a risk especially since next year's 1 will probably be a lottery pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Only a guarantee for a Cup would make that worth it and we know that's not possible. Way too big of a risk especially since next year's 1 will probably be a lottery pick. I expect two or 3 of those picks to be lottery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Kevin Lowe offered Vanek a huge contract that Darcy matched. After losing Drury and Briere, Darcy probably felt he had to match Lowe's offer. Buffalo could've had 4 1st rounders.... And if Chicago can't work things out to keep Saad, I hope Murray lands him. But as already said, the Sabres will probably be in the lottery next year, so Murray may not even think about going for Saad. Edited June 12, 2015 by Thanes16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Well, that's going to be a $9.1+ mill deal. Ready to give up 4 first rounders?I was thinking of offering the 2nd-highest bracket -- which I think is 2 first rounders, a 2nd and a 3rd. Maybe $9MM x 6 years -- not sure if STL is ready to commit $54MM to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I was thinking of offering the 2nd-highest bracket -- which I think is 2 first rounders, a 2nd and a 3rd. Maybe $9MM x 6 years -- not sure if STL is ready to commit $54MM to anyone. How do you feel about giving up that package for somebody who plays Hodgson-level defense? Tarasenko is awesome offensively, but he had something like 70% offensive zone starts because Hitchcock was terrified to let him do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 How do you feel about giving up that package for somebody who plays Hodgson-level defense? Tarasenko is awesome offensively, but he had something like 70% offensive zone starts because Hitchcock was terrified to let him do anything else. He's a young star RW who is a top-10 NHL forward on offense. The Sabres are dying for a good RW. So, in answer to your question: I would give up that package for Tarasenko in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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