deluca67 Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Size and grit is a helluva lot more attainable on the open market than the skills McDavid possesses. I can't imagine any GM passing that up for a lesser talented, bigger player. Size and grit with talent is not as attainable. We're not talking about a scorer versus a banger here. If the choice is between two highly talented prospects and one is slightly more "talented" and the other is more "physical", I'd take the more physical kid. For years on this board when i mention the idea of a player with size, toughness and a great deal of talent, posters reacted like I was talking about the Yeti. IMO, Eichel is the more valuable prospect. Back to the point, I can see how a GM of the Bruins for the last nine years can see things similarly. As much as it would disappoint me, Chiarelli passing on McDavid for Eichel would be going against the grain and could be a move to jump start a stalled franchise. There is no chance of this happening, but I could see Chiarelli giving this some serious thought. McDavid is the best player in the draft but EDM does lack size in their forward ranks and Eichel would give them that. If Chiarelli ever wanted to have his Canadian Citzenship revoked and be deported to the U.S., he would at least ask the Sabres for a D Man and move down to 2nd Overall Following the draft guides has gotten the Oilers nowhere. You bring in a GM like Chiarelli because he can build a contending team. If I'm Chiarelli I looking to build a winner, in the end that is all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 If he really wants Eichel, he'll just lower the asking price, there will still be a price, he's not taking Jack at #1, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) Size and grit with talent is not as attainable. We're not talking about a scorer versus a banger here. If the choice is between two highly talented prospects and one is slightly more "talented" and the other is more "physical", I'd take the more physical kid. For years on this board when i mention the idea of a player with size, toughness and a great deal of talent, posters reacted like I was talking about the Yeti. IMO, Eichel is the more valuable prospect. Back to the point, I can see how a GM of the Bruins for the last nine years can see things similarly. As much as it would disappoint me, Chiarelli passing on McDavid for Eichel would be going against the grain and could be a move to jump start a stalled franchise. My point was, you can obtain players with the attributes that McDavid doesn't possess to compliment him. You aren't obtaining the unique level of skill that McDavid possesses outside of a once every 20 years 1st overall pick or a UFA feeding frenzy that's never before been experienced. I'm not nearly well enough versed to make a judgement on the real on ice differnece between McDavid and Eichel, but I do strongly suspect that the incremental difference in raw talent between the two is nearly unobtainable. The difference in size and grit is obtainable Edited April 25, 2015 by weave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 If Chiarelli is looking to add some size and grit to his lineup while taking McDavid, would the board be interested if he called GMTM about Kane while offering Taylor Hall in return? The Sabres would probably have to include other assets to close the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 If he really wants Eichel, he'll just lower the asking price, there will still be a price, he's not taking Jack at #1, IMO. Thank you. Why pass up on the treasure trove you can get from the number 2 team. Murray wants McDavid. So make him go get him. Demand Risto, Zemgus, Reinhart and Eichel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Thank you. Why pass up on the treasure trove you can get from the number 2 team. Murray wants McDavid. So make him go get him. Demand Risto, Zemgus, Reinhart and Eichel. Is the difference between McDavid and Eichel that much ? If so I believe Eichel would be lumped in on the same level with every other pick following #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Is the difference between McDavid and Eichel that much ? If so I believe Eichel would be lumped in on the same level with every other pick following #1. In some people's eyes I'm sure but the question is what's the price to move up? Why wouldn't you demand half the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Thank you. Why pass up on the treasure trove you can get from the number 2 team. Murray wants McDavid. So make him go get him. Demand Risto, Zemgus, Reinhart and Eichel. Even suggesting this makes me sick to my stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Is the difference between McDavid and Eichel that much ? If so I believe Eichel would be lumped in on the same level with every other pick following #1. That's the question. Both are called "Generational Talents". How much of a gap can there be between "Generational Talents"? Is it larger than the gap between those two and an average number one pick? I mean, we're talking ridiculous levels of skill, here, and I think it might be better to look at the attributes of either and determine which one fits better with your team. In a sane world, DeLuca's point would be far more complex. But, as it stands, it seems most people have synchronized with the "McDavid is the bestest pick and you would be stoooopid not to take him first" narrative. For which, I am somewhat glad. McDavid might be one or two generational notches above plain ol' generational Eichel, but Eichel's game COULD mesh with the Sabres better faster. That would be true for a lot of teams going the bigger, tougher route, which, as Deluca has said, is what Chiarelli is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 While Eichel is more of a B's style player; I simply can't see anyone (outside of possibly Beantown due to the hometown factor) passing on McDavid. Especially can't see a team based in Canada passing on him. Even further, can't see the organization that let national treasure Gretzky head south of the border let the latest national treasure head to the 'wrong' side of the Niagara. I've built myself up to prefer Eichel, but I believe the majority of that is my expectation that is who the Sabres will get w/ a bit of nationalistic pride thrown in as well. If it truly was Sabres choice and I could make the pick, when all is said & done, pretty sure it has to be McDavid. Eichel is so smooth, but McDavid makes you get out of your seat. He moves like Afinogenov but w/ Selanne-like hands. To me, it's Gretzky-Lemieux, but I have a hard time taking Mario over Wayne. Fortunately, for us, can't see either missing. Gretzky LEMIEUX?????????????????????? come on I love Eich ...but lets keep it on planet earth here. Gretzy-- Modano is more like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Gretzky LEMIEUX?????????????????????? come on I love Eich ...but lets keep it on planet earth here. Gretzy-- Modano is more like it. Crosby-Modano, more like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Slightly off topic, but the run and gun Battles of Alberta of the 1980s were some of the most exciting hockey I have ever seen. The last real Battle of Alberta (1991 playoffs) remains the single greatest playoff series I have ever seen. Hitting, fighting, goaltending, end to end rushing, great goals, great passes, unbelievable intensity and hatred among the players. It had everything you could ever ask for. The game NHL hockey has devolved into since is, on most regular season nights, unwatchable for me. It's just freaking boring, and that's what baseball is for. If McDavid can help bring Edmonton back to the top, great! They were always my "no. 2" team. Thank God he isn't in Phoenix. Edited April 26, 2015 by Kruppstahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 If this has been mentioned in another thread and I missed it I do apologize. With Chiarelli now in charge of the Oilers, what are the chances that McDavid is not the #1 pick. I would think that being in Boston that Chiarelli has had a pretty good look at the kid and taking into consideration the type of teams he had in Boston, it would make sense that Eichel is more of a Chiarelli type player. So, what are the chances McDavid ends up a Sabre without the need of a trade? If in the combine interview McDavid says I hope you trade me because I'll be signing an offer sheet first chance.....it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Gretzky LEMIEUX?????????????????????? come on I love Eich ...but lets keep it on planet earth here. Gretzy-- Modano is more like it. Was wondering how long it would take for somebody to take issue w/ that. Surprised it took that long. More surprised that you're ok w/ the Gretzky comparison, but not the Mario one. Both of these guys have a long way to go to earn such comparisons, and the odds are against either reaching these peaks, but right now it's cool to think of the possibilities of what the ceilings could be. Where the ceilings top out is very debatable right now, but I see the differences betwwen the 2 as the differences between those 2 all timers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted April 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Was wondering how long it would take for somebody to take issue w/ that. Surprised it took that long. More surprised that you're ok w/ the Gretzky comparison, but not the Mario one. Both of these guys have a long way to go to earn such comparisons, and the odds are against either reaching these peaks, but right now it's cool to think of the possibilities of what the ceilings could be. Where the ceilings top out is very debatable right now, but I see the differences betwwen the 2 as the differences between those 2 all timers. I always thought the better comparison would be like the difference between Gretzky and Messier. I"m not saying either of them will or won't get to that level, but the differences between them is more similar there: Eichel may have as much (some people say more) high end speed, hes just not as agile. Eichel has a harders shot, but not as good of hands around the net. Eichel is a bit bigger and stronger, but not as good of vision and/or anticipation. McDavid is likely to get more points and be a better player over an entire career, but they are close enough that there might be some individual years where Eichel is more valuable. If you are going to use Gretzky to compare McDavid too....Messier may be the better player to use for Eichel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 26, 2015 Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 I always thought the better comparison would be like the difference between Gretzky and Messier. I"m not saying either of them will or won't get to that level, but the differences between them is more similar there: Eichel may have as much (some people say more) high end speed, hes just not as agile. Eichel has a harders shot, but not as good of hands around the net. Eichel is a bit bigger and stronger, but not as good of vision and/or anticipation. McDavid is likely to get more points and be a better player over an entire career, but they are close enough that there might be some individual years where Eichel is more valuable. If you are going to use Gretzky to compare McDavid too....Messier may be the better player to use for Eichel. Perhaps. I haven't seen the visciousness of a Messier in Eichel, but post-Hodgkins Lemieux was as much a competitor as any of them. Messier is an interesting thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 Was wondering how long it would take for somebody to take issue w/ that. Surprised it took that long. More surprised that you're ok w/ the Gretzky comparison, but not the Mario one. Both of these guys have a long way to go to earn such comparisons, and the odds are against either reaching these peaks, but right now it's cool to think of the possibilities of what the ceilings could be. Where the ceilings top out is very debatable right now, but I see the differences betwwen the 2 as the differences between those 2 all timers. well I wasn't really focusing on the gretzky part....but mcdavid is the most exciting hockey player to come out since at least Crosby...and he could become a gretzky. But the way you stated it made it seem as if there was in fact drop off from gretzky to Lemieux .That is debatable.they are both on the hockey mount rushmore with ORR and HOWE. Eichel wont be that kind of a player. McDavid 'could' be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 We may be putting way too much pressure on this kid to become Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Crosby etc..... If he's as good as Modano, I'm happy. Better?? even more happy. But at this point in his career, I'll be glad if he's a very good player and helps this team start to be a contender again. Edmonton, bleeeeeh, who cares about the Oilers. Watching the playoff games this week, it'll be great just to back in that mode again. And yes I was a senior in high school when the team went from being the Bisons to the Sabres, so I'm ready for winning that Cup finally but first things first, PLAYOFFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm so discouraged being a Sabres fan. From sheer bad luck to devotion to mediocrity, to faulty character "superstar" players to complete and utter mismanagement to things that IMO that have been rigged, I'm convinced the Buffalo Sabres were born to fail. This McDavid thing is the cherry on the S--- cake. I'm completely disgusted. I'm not sure I can continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidc3000 Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm not that depressed over losing out on McDavid. It doesn't matter too much since we're getting a great player as a "consolation." If McDavid was the only great player then I would be pretty pissed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I am going to go out on a limb and guess the main reason the Oilers hired Chiarelli is that they want to model their team after the Boston Bruins. I can easily see Chiarelli looking at the two and preferring Eichel. Add that with the miserable failure the Oilers have been with the drafting according to Hoyle mentality they have had, it shouldn't be surprising if the Oilers do draft Eichel #1. I can see it as an easy sell to ownership and the fans. The two players are close enough in talent where taking the guy who may be rated #2 but fits the type of team you want to build much better makes a ton of sense. To be 100%, I would be disappointed if the Oilers did draft Eichel #1. McDavid has grit, I wouldn't worry about Chiarelli passing on the Canadian hockey phenom to take Jack Eichel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm so discouraged being a Sabres fan. From sheer bad luck to devotion to mediocrity, to faulty character "superstar" players to complete and utter mismanagement to things that IMO that have been rigged, I'm convinced the Buffalo Sabres were born to fail. This McDavid thing is the cherry on the S--- cake. I'm completely disgusted. I'm not sure I can continue. You again, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresith Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm just ready for the off-season. It's been a long year and I'm just ready to get to the fun stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm so discouraged being a Sabres fan. From sheer bad luck to devotion to mediocrity, to faulty character "superstar" players to complete and utter mismanagement to things that IMO that have been rigged, I'm convinced the Buffalo Sabres were born to fail. This McDavid thing is the cherry on the S--- cake. I'm completely disgusted. I'm not sure I can continue. Then don't I guess. This is the most exciting time since the Super Bowl days to be a Buffalo sports fan. Sit back and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted April 27, 2015 Report Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm fine with Edmonton getting the pick. They're the only team in the NHL that no one will say, "Well, at least Buffalo didn't get it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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