Trading up for McDavid if we end up at #2

[Randall Flagg]

Awhile back, I put forth the idea of EDM (when it looked like they might end up 29th) wanted to trade up could package Eberle and Hall + #2 for #1. Probably more (EDM 2016 1st, etc.). While I don't know I'd do it, it'd have to be considered. McDavid will be very good, but in the last 9 seasons, 8 guys not named Crosby lifted the cup as their team's #1 center. Insanely great vs. Great plus filling out the rest of the first line.

I'd take it without their first in 2016 and I'd throw our other first in too. And grigs.

[woods-racer]

Craig MacTavish is a little bonkers, but he's not Garth Snow delusional or Jay Feaster stupid.  He might be willing to wear his testicles on his sleeve on draft day, but the deals would have to make sense, at least on paper.  I get the impression he's trying to appear smart to his owners so he doesn't get fired.

 

I don't get the impression that Don Maloney is crazy, though.  I don't think he can be and still be successful, with the franchise on the ropes and operating on a shoestring budget.  He has to walk a conservative line.  (which, btw is probably why Darcy's a good fit there)

We are reading from the same script.

 

Darcy is exactly where he needs to be. In my mind his glaring weakness as GM was to find quality centers in the later picks of the draft (outside the top 20). No easy task, but he gave himself enough chances to at least get a few. His biggest strength is putting a fair team on the ice with a limited budget, in a time of franchise turmoil. He has lived it, so a good sounding board for the current GM.

[3putt]

Edmonton is holding #2, any change? Or as chz says "hellz no" will be the only appropriate response?

Big Change.  Edm does not have anything that wow's me or feels put's us over the top, OEL would provide us with the ability to dominate the game offensively from the blue with both top pairs (OEL/BOGO; Risto/Zadorov).  That is an element that other teams would have a tough time defending.  Take your eyes off Eichel or Reinhart and they hurt you.  Shut them down and the blueline picks up the slack.  I have a man crush on OEL who I have watched considerably more during the Tank.  He is really good.

[Kristian]

McDavid scares the piss outta me.

 

Because he's so damn good, I can't for the life of me see GMTM draft Eichel if we end up with #1 pick. But this being Buffalo - I fully expect McD to get "Connolly'ed" the first time he tries stickhandling over the blueline.

 

I have this nasty feeling Eichel might be a much better fit for the Sabres - A big, gifted scorer who can skate and pass too. Plays a simpler game, and as such, less likely to get murdered by the first and best goon.

[LGR4GM]

I heard Connor McDavid eats kittens, craps barbed wire, slept with Chuck Norris' daughter, has twice bitched slapped vladamir putin, and once for fun played with one hand duct tape to his side... he had 4g and 3a that game.  

[3putt]

I heard Connor McDavid eats kittens, craps barbed wire, slept with Chuck Norris' daughter, has twice bitched slapped vladamir putin, and once for fun played with one hand duct tape to his side... he had 4g and 3a that game.  

I was at that game. Erie lost 8-7.   ;)

[Drunkard]

What I'd be willing to offer to move up from 2 to 1 likely wouldn't be enough for the team who wins the lottery to accept. I'd be willing to sweeten it with draft picks or lessor prospects but I'd only be willing to offer one major piece (I consider them Ristolainen, Zadorov, Kane, Bogosian, and Girgensens) along with #2 and Reinhart would be off the table. If they demanded Reinhart plus Eichel or two of the major pieces plus Eichel I decline and just keep Eichel.

 

Going the other way, if I'm in the top spot I demand #2 and OEL from Phoenix or I keep McDavid. I'm not sure if I'm willing to move down if Edmonton has #2 as they don't seem to have a major piece I'd be willing to take in trade other than RNH because I don't think Yakupov or Eberle are good enough to justify it and we have enough LW that we don't need Hall and I'd rather not gamble on whether Draisaital hits his ceiling.

[dudacek]

Eichel and OEL or McDavid? What if they added Domi?

[Hoss]

Eichel and OEL or McDavid? What if they added Domi?

Still no.

I was at that game. Erie lost 8-7. ;)

That game never actually happened. McDavid has never had 4 goals and 3 assists. He had 4 goals once in his career (two goals that game) and won 8-4.

[IKnowPhysics]

I'm gonna self-reference some NHLe work I did a little while ago here.

 

I projected that McDavid is capable of up to 70-95 points in his first (82 game) NHL season.  Eichel looks to be capable of up to 63-73 points.

 

Based on this seasons's stats, this is where those point totals lie:

McDavid: somewhere between Logan Couture/Joe Thornton and Sidney Crosby/John Tavares.

Eichel: somewhere between Filip Forsberg/Jason Spezza and Ryan Johansen/Joe Pavelski.

 

Note that these are point totals that they could achieve in their rookie years, ie Eichel could be a Spezza/Pavelski-like point producer next year.  This says nothing of possible improvement in future years.  Also note that Crosby and Tavares are leading the NHL in points this year.  It's theoretically possible that McDavid approaches the top of the league in his rookie year, like Crosby did (6th overall in points his rookie year).  Also note that Crosby did this without a super amount of help (he finished with 45 more points than the next PIT forward).

 

There's some presumption on these calculated point totals, ie they play to their potential that their junior/NCAA career has indicated, they excel above the "average" NHL equivalency standards similar to other high draft picks, they receive usage and opportunities in their junior years like their high draft pick peers, they have at least some supporting talent around them, etc.

[3putt]

Still no.

 

That game never actually happened. McDavid has never had 4 goals and 3 assists. He had 4 goals once in his career (two goals that game) and won 8-4.

You get a little touchy when there is talk of trading your man crush. You must have missed the with one arm reference.

Eichel and OEL or McDavid? What if they added Domi?

Ship it

[Hoss]

You get a little touchy when there is talk of trading your man crush.

Don't be an ass. I'm just as against going all out to trade up from two as I am trading down from one.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Tank

[TrueBlueGED]

Eichel and OEL or McDavid? What if they added Domi?

 

I'd do it. Is there a clear gap between McDavid and Eichel? yes. Is that gap a top-5 Dman in the NHL? I don't think it is. Put another way, I'd rather have Tavares and Doughty than Crosby.

[K8prisoner]

thats alot of posts i wont read, in responxse to a nine year olds' wish

Edited March 28, 2015 by K8prisoner

[rakish]

for me the operative question is do you want Crosby or Toews?  I think that's a difficult question.  How would Pittsburgh be with Toews and Malkin? Chicago with Crosby and Kane?  If I had to choose one, I'm not sure.  I think Crosby will win more MVP's, I think Toews will win more cups, I would probably go with Toews.

 

McDavid's going to be like Crosby, and it would be hard to pass that by.  Eichel's going to be better than Toews, so I wouldn't let that go by.  So for entertainment value, you draft McDavid.  For me, In game 6 of the ECF, I want Teddy sending Eichel over the boards.  That's my vision on how you win cups.

 

Trading up? Trading down?  They're both going to be great, be happy with who you get.

Edited March 28, 2015 by rakish

[3putt]

Don't be an ass. I'm just as against going all out to trade up from two as I am trading down from one.

Against Az from going all out? If they want to go batshit crazy I hope Murray has his phone fully charged. I would not try to trade up, but would listen to any desperate GM holding the #2 who wanted to chat.

[sicknfla]

for me the operative question is do you want Crosby or Toews? I think that's a difficult question. How would Pittsburgh be with Toews and Malkin? Chicago with Crosby and Kane? If I had to choose one, I'm not sure. I think Crosby will win more MVP's, I think Toews will win more cups, I would probably go with Toews.

 

McDavid's going to be like Crosby, and it would be hard to pass that by. Eichel's going to be better than Toews, so I wouldn't let that go by. So for entertainment value, you draft McDavid. For me, In game 6 of the ECF, I want Teddy sending Eichel over the boards. That's my vision on how you win cups.

 

Trading up? Trading down? They're both going to be great, be happy with who you get.

If we happen to make it to a ECF game 6 in the future I don't think Teddy will be the one sending him over the boards. Unless by some fluke our new coach has the first name of Teddy.

[IKnowPhysics]

[Eleven]

There was this one time in college when I was totally freaking toxic stoned.  Out of my mind.  Needed my friends to not only walk me home, but also to help me order pizza and 7-Up and stuff.  They even had to hang with me to make sure the pizza ended up in my stomach and not on the walls as some sort of stoned art statement.  Yes, they had some of the pizza.  I think I had some.  Wait, maybe they really were being jerks and just wanted all of my pizza.

 

Anyway, I was less crazy then than anyone--ANYONE--who thinks a team is trading McDavid away for anything less than a brand new hockey team a la Quebec with Lindros. 

 

OTOH, if the Sabs win the lottery and some team with the 2 pick wants to trade a whole starting six (and the pick) to Buffalo for McDavid?  Absolutely.

 

But that's what the going rate will be.  A goalie and five skaters and/or picks.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Eleven

[DirtDart]

no

 

What a bum. I can't believe all this hype surrounds this unproven kid.

[Doohickie]

I'd imagine a package that the other team would ask for might include Reinhart too.  The other team has to ask for the moon and get it to pull the trigger and run the risk of being forever known as the GM who traded away the next Gretzky/Lemeiux/Crosby.  In other words it's never happening.

Lindros.

 

Note that the team that ended up with the Cups was not the one that got Lindros, it was the one that got the bevy of players.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Neuvichs Perchatka

[Hoss]

Lindros.

Completely different situation. McDavid isn't going to pull a Lindros.

[Huckleberry]

If we win the lottery and ARI gets #2.  Would you trade McDavid for Eichel, Perlini (#12), Domi (#12), Gormley (#13), and Blackhawks first rounder?

 

wouldn't pay it myself though, don't think the gap between to is that great to warrant selling of four top prospects

[deluca67]

To put it another way, if we had the number one pick would you give it up for #2? Hellz no.

What would be the offer? If Arizona was offering #2, their second #1 pick this year and sake of argument a prospect like Max Domi, it would be foolish of the Sabres not to give that serious consideration.

 

The plan here is to build a great team not pin all the hopes on 1 player. If you can add significant assets without dropping much or at all in the quality of player you would be drafting with your first pick, that is direction to go in.

[carpandean]

I'm gonna self-reference some NHLe work I did a little while ago here.

 

Data has to be a little thin for high-end NCAA players (compared to CHL players).  Not that there aren't any (Toews, Heatley, Vanek, etc.), but Eichel's producing (point-wise) at a higher level than even those few data points.  Tough to infer what he's going to be capable of.