bob_sauve28 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Yes and no. McDavid does things at full speed that Jack simply can't. Also McDavid has another level above what you normally see. I think Eichel may have that but there is something to McDavid. That said, either player is better than everyone in our system but a mile including Sam Reinhart... who will be fine. I've seen that McDavid speed first hand. Quick and fast. Don't know much at all about Eichel, but if he is as good as they say I'd keep him and all our other assests and build for the cup I'm not a scout. I don't *know* hockey in that way. But, just watching them: Eichel looks like a 10, but McDavid goes to 11. And 11 is better than 10! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 For all eternity? Sure! Why not! How about this one? Would you have traded your entire 1978-79 Edmonton Oilers roster for Wayne Gretzky? http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/EDO/1979.html All it actually took was 850k of Peter Pocklington's money. Great story: http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=430450 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 To put it another way, if we had the number one pick would you give it up for #2? Hellz no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 I've seen that McDavid speed first hand. Quick and fast. Don't know much at all about Eichel, but if he is as good as they say I'd keep him and all our other assests and build for the cup And 11 is better than 10! lol It's one better. And if we draft McDavid, don't touch him. No, don't even look at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Did you see the bomb RIsto shot yesterday? There is no way on earth I am trading my stud #1 D man to move up in the draft. What Im having trouble understanding is the talent gap between McDavid and Eichel so large that these are the assetts that you would have to get up in order to obtain him? Risto's shot deflected off a defenseman's stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 --would be like trading LeBron for harden. there is only one LeBron . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 --would be like trading LeBron for harden. there is only one LeBron . Can't say that since we're talking about prospects versus players. A more apt comparison would be trading LeBron for Carmelo in their draft year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) If we pick #2 take Eichel and move on. I agree with this. But for fun, let's re-frame the question (again). Assume the lottery winner is amenable to trading McDavid for Jack Eichel at a reasonable price. What do you offer them? What are you willing to pay to upgrade from Eichel to McDavid. What, in Sabre players or assets, is the difference between Eichel and McDavid in your mind? Risto, Girgs and our second #1 and either Baptiste or Compher gets it done. This seems like a gross overpayment, IMO. Edited March 27, 2015 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 This seems like a gross overpayment, IMO. Unfortunately a gross overpayment is at least what it would take. Teams (even if they are open to it) don't trade away generational players for a reasonable offer. Who are out top young players? Risto, Girgs, Reinhart? I think they'd want two of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately a gross overpayment is at least what it would take. Teams (even if they are open to it) don't trade away generational players for a reasonable offer. True, but included in the offer already is another generational player. I'm not convinced the difference between Eichel and McDavid is as wide as a #8 overall Dman, a #14 overall center, a #16-25 overall pick, and a highly touted prospect. One or maybe two of those things. If you take Eichel out of that equation, and want to trade all of that for non-Eichelness for McDavid, we might be talking, and probably are underpaying. Edited March 27, 2015 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 To put it another way, if we had the number one pick would you give it up for #2? Hellz no. Maybe? What do I get for giving up my #1 overall pick. You're Arizona, go ahead tempt me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Maybe? What do I get for giving up my #1 overall pick. You're Arizona, go ahead tempt me.... 3putt and I were chatting about this the other day. As a Sabres fan representing Arizona's interests, I'd offer myself OEL. 3putt might offer considerably more. If I'm actually Arizona, I don't want to move OEL pretty much ever. Which means you can have just about anything and everything else. Edited March 27, 2015 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Awhile back, I put forth the idea of EDM (when it looked like they might end up 29th) wanted to trade up could package Eberle and Hall + #2 for #1. Probably more (EDM 2016 1st, etc.). While I don't know I'd do it, it'd have to be considered. McDavid will be very good, but in the last 9 seasons, 8 guys not named Crosby lifted the cup as their team's #1 center. Insanely great vs. Great plus filling out the rest of the first line. Edited March 27, 2015 by Met'yuPirog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 3putt and I were chatting about this the other day. As a Sabres fan representing Arizona's interests, I'd offer myself OEL. 3putt might offer considerably more. If I'm actually Arizona, I don't want to move OEL pretty much ever. Which means you can have just about anything and everything else. Edmonton is holding #2, any change? Or as chz says "hellz no" will be the only appropriate response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Awhile back, I put forth the idea of EDM (when it looked like they might end up 29th) wanted to trade up could package Eberle and Hall + #2 for #1. Probably more (EDM 2016 1st, etc.). While I don't know I'd do it, it'd have to be considered. McDavid will be very good, but in the last 9 seasons, 8 guys not named Crosby lifted the cup as their team's #1 center. Insanely great vs. Great plus filling out the rest of the first line. Edmonton is holding #2, any change? Or as chz says "hellz no" will be the only appropriate response? That's my take on it. I haven't done much looking though, I'm not sure the Sabres would truly want both of those players, but I suppose you could flip one of the two to another team for a different style of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 True, but included in the offer already is another generational player. I'm not convinced the difference between Eichel and McDavid is as wide as a #8 overall Dman, a #14 overall center, a #16-25 overall pick, and a highly touted prospect. One or maybe two of those things. If you take Eichel out of that equation, and want to trade all of that for non-Eichelness for McDavid, we might be talking, and probably are underpaying. If we win the lottery and ARI gets #2. Would you trade McDavid for Eichel, Perlini (#12), Domi (#12), Gormley (#13), and Blackhawks first rounder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) Edmonton is holding #2, any change? Or as chz says "hellz no" will be the only appropriate response? I think they've got a lot more top-end assets, and those assets are more fluid. Guys like Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, etc are all interesting. Plus Edmonton sucks, so their future picks are worthy of consideration. But Edmonton's issues aren't with their forwards- it's with their D and goaltending. If there was a Connor McDavid of defense up for grabs, Edmonton would go all in, sending Eichel, plus any single other asset and that 2016 1st. They've got a decent forward game going right now, and they may just want to draft their way out of it. Which means that if Edmonton is at #2, I could see them trading DOWN for a king's ransom (read: pick, roster dmen, and a goalie) and taking Hanifin. In fact, that's a hell of a scenario: if it's Edmonton #2, Arizona #3, I could see Zona trading OEL up to Edmonton and taking Jack Eichel, while Edmonton acquires OEL and drafts Hanifin. That fixes a lot of problems for Edmonton and gives Arizona that generational forward if they covet it. Edited March 27, 2015 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 So it's not out of the realm of possibility, but the Sabres trade partner would have to be a combination of dumb, crazy, and desperate. Which makes the flip of this also true, the Sabres trading up to No. 1 would have the same attributes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 If we win the lottery and ARI gets #2. Would you trade McDavid for Eichel, Perlini (#12), Domi (#12), Gormley (#13), and Blackhawks first rounder? That's a lot of cheese. I'd think I'd do it. That's moving a #1 for a #2 and four other first rounders- effectively what could be an entire line of quality players that includes a generational talent. I don't think the gap between McDavid and Eichel is that big, making it good value. I'm not sure Arizona can -or would want to- afford that price though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 What if Murray has the top pick but secretly has decided he wants Eichel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Did you see the bomb RIsto shot yesterday? There is no way on earth I am trading my stud #1 D man to move up in the draft. What Im having trouble understanding is the talent gap between McDavid and Eichel so large that these are the assetts that you would have to get up in order to obtain him? The one that got deflected and in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) So it's not out of the realm of possibility, but the Sabres trade partner would have to be a combination of dumb, crazy, and desperate. Which makes the flip of this also true, the Sabres trading up to No. 1 would have the same attributes. Craig MacTavish is a little bonkers, but he's not Garth Snow delusional or Jay Feaster stupid. He might be willing to wear his testicles on his sleeve on draft day, but the deals would have to make sense, at least on paper. I get the impression he's trying to appear smart to his owners so he doesn't get fired. I don't get the impression that Don Maloney is crazy, though. I don't think he can be and still be successful, with the franchise on the ropes and operating on a shoestring budget. He has to walk a conservative line. (which, btw is probably why Darcy's a good fit there) Edited March 27, 2015 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Yes and no. McDavid does things at full speed that Jack simply can't. Also McDavid has another level above what you normally see. I think Eichel may have that but there is something to McDavid. That said, either player is better than everyone in our system but a mile including Sam Reinhart... who will be fine. Agreed. The more I see Eichel the more I think he compares to Toews. McDavid is more of a burner/dangler type player with a crazy skill set. There is still a gap between the two but not as big as the drop to 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 What if Murray has the top pick but secretly has decided he wants Eichel? What if Patrick Kaleta is really as good as Gretzky but decided he'd rather not make a bunch more money or help his hometown team more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted March 27, 2015 Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 That's a lot of cheese. I'd think I'd do it. That's moving a #1 for a #2 and four other first rounders- effectively what could be an entire line of quality players that includes a generational talent. I don't think the gap between McDavid and Eichel is that big, making it good value. I'm not sure Arizona can -or would want to- afford that price though. Fair enough :) I think I'd still say no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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