Trade: Myers, Stafford, Armia, Lemieux, + Low 1st for Kane, Bogosian, and Kasdorf

[...]

After being able to watch Bogosian for a few games now, I'm over whatever ill I had for this trade.  Bogosian straight up for Myers seems totally worth it.  I'm also alright with the goods given up for Kane even if he doesn't live up 100% to the hype. 

[darksabre]

So, I've read all 24 pages of the post and some comments are hilarious....

I'm a Jets fan and I can honestly say I like this trade a LOT better than the Hawerchuk deal.

 

In Bogo you get a tough D man for 65 games a year that will chip in with some points as well but he isn't there to be an offensive threat. He can get nasty but has to watch the dumb penalties...the stick penalties. Really good in the room. a 20-22 minute a game guy...... As good as Myers? Nope...... Close? If they are both on top of their game, not even close... He will play quite consistently and keeps the front of the net clear. Myers has made several comments about how the Jets play hockey and how much he likes the system and that everyone sticks to it no matter the score. A pretty good shot and an above average skater and passer.

In Kane you have a guy that needs to grow up some and that cold be a consistent 35-45 goal man with the right linemates and system to play in. He would need regular first line PP time as well. Excellent on the PK and very fast and hits anything (everything) on the opposing team. A great shot but doesn't like to pass too much. He plays old school hockey and will play through as much as the doctors will allow. He had his troubles in the room and had to be dealt. Did the Jets get fair market value for these two? Depends on how well Armia and Lemieux and the 1st turn out as well as if we re-sign Stafford but Myers is definitely a player. Salary wise, the jets shipped out about 10.4 and brought back 9.5 in cap hit. Myers contract was front loaded while bogos and Kanes get larger as it ages and Sabres pay half of Stafford's salry so advantage Jets. Chevy will need that money for Buff and Ladd and Frolik. Trouba, Lowry and Schiefele will want some cash when he re-signs too.

 

 

Who do I think won the trade? Well, I am a Jets fan so naturally I think the Jets won; especially if you look at Chevy's drafting record. He knows how to pick them and doens't really care where other people have them ranked come draft day. Armia should easily be a 3rd liner and possibly a 2nd liner. I see Lemieux on the 3rd line between Petan and Armia in a couple years. So, 2 guys that should play on your team for the next 7-10 years on 2-3 line, Myers, A first rounder and Stafford for Bog and Kane. (I'm intentionally not mentiong Kasdorf because he will never play in the NHL). I'd make that trade any day of the week.

Re-sign Stafford he says :lol:

[Samson's Flow]

Re-sign Stafford he says :lol:

should we tell him about the trade Stafford thread that lasted years? Edited February 20, 2015 by Touched by Boyes

[Ducky]

Biodrok, thanks for the welcome....as I mentioned, i am a homer so my opinions are biased.

 

Stafford has played well, his history means nothing to me.....how he plays as a Jet is all i am concerned about...if he continues to play like he is, i would offer him a 2 year contract for 6 or a 3 year for 8. He isn't worth 4. A solid 3rd liner that can play 2nd in a pinch. He was playing 1st line for awhile against the Wings.

Good to hear Bogo is playing well for you guys but if he is playing that many minutes, it might say something fo the rest of the D. Was that game an OT game? I liked his game but I love Myers' game. He will never be as tough a Bogo but he doesn't need to be, we have tough on D already. He creates a lot of offence. Our D looks set with Trouba, Myers, Enstrom, Buff, Chiarot and Morrissey making the team next year...Stuart/Harrison as a 7th. Trade the other as well as Postma over the off season or before the deadline this year.

 

I forgot to mention, you guys should be wondering why Kane wasn't playing on the 1st or 2nd line here in Winnipeg? The third line with a rookie and career 3rd liner? Makes you wonder.

[drnkirishone]

 

I forgot to mention, you guys should be wondering why Kane wasn't playing on the 1st or 2nd line here in Winnipeg? The third line with a rookie and career 3rd liner? Makes you wonder.

ok I will wonder that but in return you have to ask yourself why a team would be willing to trade a former calder winning still young 6 foot 8 inch tall defensman

[Doohickie]

It's gonna be tough to convince me on the Myers/Bogosian argument when Bogo just played 32 plus minutes in one of the few sabres wins in recent memory. Good luck to Tyler Myers but I'll take Bogosian all day

 

Myers has logged those kind of minutes and been effective.  He just didn't handle the tank (or the tankward slide of the few years) well.  In his body English I read that he was tired of being depended on to be the #1 D-man on a crappy team.  Even when he was, he was criticized because, hey, no one's perfect.  I think in the end he felt like Sisyphus (Google if you don't know).  I wish him well in Winnipeg.  

 

That said, it seems like Bogo fits the direction the Sabres are moving in better than Myers did.  And you probably read the theory that part of this trade was to improve the future of the Sabres by hamstringing them for the rest of the season to ensure McEichel.  If the Sabres end up with McDavid (or Eichel) by trading away Myers for a roughly comparable D-man and giving away Stafford, then the Sabres win the trade hands down.  Any production from Kane is a bonus on top of that (and if he works out at all, he could be a leader in the room instead of an outcast).

 

Stafford is a good, smart player.  His biggest fault was having his best statistical season during a free agent year and getting a contract based on being a 30 goal scorer, then never producing at that level again, not meeting high expectations.  I think Staff and Kane may end up being an even wash, both benefitting from the change in scenery (and perhaps the same with Myers and Bogo).  

 

Bogo also has the advantage of having Buffalo connections.  Sabres fans love that.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Neuvirths Glove

[Ducky]

Bogo and Myers were drafted in the same year, no?

I'm not gonna hold that against him....winning the Calder is a good thing.

Like i said, their play now concerns me.

[beerme1]

Biodrok, thanks for the welcome....as I mentioned, i am a homer so my opinions are biased.

 

Stafford has played well, his history means nothing to me.....how he plays as a Jet is all i am concerned about...if he continues to play like he is, i would offer him a 2 year contract for 6 or a 3 year for 8. He isn't worth 4. A solid 3rd liner that can play 2nd in a pinch. He was playing 1st line for awhile against the Wings.

Good to hear Bogo is playing well for you guys but if he is playing that many minutes, it might say something fo the rest of the D. Was that game an OT game? I liked his game but I love Myers' game. He will never be as tough a Bogo but he doesn't need to be, we have tough on D already. He creates a lot of offence. Our D looks set with Trouba, Myers, Enstrom, Buff, Chiarot and Morrissey making the team next year...Stuart/Harrison as a 7th. Trade the other as well as Postma over the off season or before the deadline this year.

 

I forgot to mention, you guys should be wondering why Kane wasn't playing on the 1st or 2nd line here in Winnipeg? The third line with a rookie and career 3rd liner? Makes you wonder.

 

 

It does make me wonder. Makes me wonder about the Jets. Anyway, I love the trade for both sides as it fills needs for both.

What do you know about the goalie to say he'll never make it. I know he is a throw in but know nothing about him. 

We root for different teams and have different glasses on. You will enjoy Myers if his expectations are different than what we hoped for out of him. Armia, Lemieux? Maybe, but maybe not. Stafford? LOL! Pick?

Bogo's game and attitude we will enjoy. Kane playing his game and being made to feel welcome here, and probably playing alongside McDavid or Eichel? Should be poppin 30+ every year and I'm willing to bet he gets along better here than he did there and has an even higher upside.

 

I believe we got the best two players. But we gave up a lot in order to do so. At the end of the day there is great upside to this trade for both teams and I love it. Wish Myers nothing but the best. Good luck to Staff and Armia. Lemieux at 18 can kiss my ass if he wasn't willing to sign here. Our GM has said many times over, if you don't want to be here we will accommodate you. I had high expectations for him but if he is going to be a headache and that's what we had to give you to swing the deal, so be it I can live with it.

[Ducky]

Stafford and Kane are not comparable if Kane even comes close to his potential....how big is the "if" is the question....I really liked his game tho.

 

Also, you have to remember that Bogo wasn't going to get the minutes he wanted playing behind Buff and Trouba.

[K-9]

It's gonna be tough to convince me on the Myers/Bogosian argument when Bogo just played 32 plus minutes in one of the few sabres wins in recent memory. Good luck to Tyler Myers but I'll take Bogosian all day

Bogosian is twice the defenseman Myers is and that much harder to play against, which is what this team needs on the back end. In his first game as a Sabre, Bogo registered 1/4 of Myers' hit total on the entire season. In one game! Yes, in the short term we will miss Myers' offensive prowess but given how streaky that is and that we still have young defensemen that can develop that aspect, I'm not sure how much we'll miss that moving forward. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

[...]

That's the thing, Murray wants this team to be a bear to play against.  He's going all Western conference on us, which is a good...great...thing.  

 

Myers isn't tough to play against, but he is a good defender with offensive up side.  Bogo is tough to play against, is probably a better defender based on his near perfect positioning (which Myers definitely does not have), and, did I see an attempt to slide the puck through the legs to get a shot on goal down the middle?  I did, and I never saw Myers do that. 

 

Myers offense comes from speeding down the wing and cutting across to the net, usually, and also from point shots.  If he is allowed to play that game, he does a good job with it.  I don't think that kind of game is what Murray wants out of his defense routinely. 

[thewookie1]

As long as Zadorov and Risto pan out, Myers was expendable. Bogo gives us that long term, lock down D-man and high quality guy who's more D-first in his mentality. 

 

Playoffs come around and both teams win in the trade, as long as Zads and Risto are great, since Myers gives WPG a big man with great skating while already having plenty of hitting D-men. Buffalo gets a moderately effect offensive zone D-man who plays a gritty shut down D-man role which we didn't have yet. Plus he gives Zadorov a mentor, seeing as they play a very similar style of game. Plus Myers and Bogo switching locales give them a fresh start. 

[bunomatic]

It will be the first and last time I watch the kid...but I will google and find out when and where...thank you so much for the heads up!

Come on now, he's got great parents, they'd never take advantage of him and kick him to the curb just after they stole his last left handed cigarette....

Comedy central march 30th

[Iron Crotch]

I actually think Stafford isn't a bad fit at wing on the Jets second line.  He has some speed, decent size, can hold his own in a physical game, and can put the puck in the net a little bit.  He's a solid deadline playoff rental.  Could be worth resigning for the right price.  He just wore out his welcome in Buffalo and the change of scenery does both he and the Sabres some good.

 

Come playoff time (which is still years away for the Sabres), I'm pretty sure I want a guy like Bogo, not a guy like Myers.  Myers is playing a little bit over his head right now and will regress toward the mean.  And, I question his mental toughness.  But, if he is playing second pair minutes, that'll help.

 

[Johnny DangerFace]

I have been really enjoying watching bogo the last few games, I'm liking this trade more and more

[Huckleberry]

I have been really enjoying watching bogo the last few games, I'm liking this trade more and more

 

Wait till next year when Kane might have 25 goal season.

[Doohickie]

Bogosian is twice the defenseman Myers is and that much harder to play against, which is what this team needs on the back end. In his first game as a Sabre, Bogo registered 1/4 of Myers' hit total on the entire season. In one game! Yes, in the short term we will miss Myers' offensive prowess but given how streaky that is and that we still have young defensemen that can develop that aspect, I'm not sure how much we'll miss that moving forward. 

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

It's difficult to compare Myers and Bogo.  Both are good D-men, but they fill different roles on a defensive corps.  From what I've read, WPG already had a plethora of strong, physical, shut-down Ds.  What they needed was a playmaker.  Bogo was always going to be just another one of those guys competing for time against D-men who played a similar style to him.  Myers fits in WPG because they needed something different, a playmaker.  It works for Myers because if he's not called on to be the top D-man, he's much more effective in that role.  

 

The Sabres need grit.  They have Weber, but he's not as skilled as Bogo.  They also need a kind of a senior statesman to lead the younger Ds, especially Zadorov.  Having to be that example will probably mature Bogo a bit.  Giving him the absolute reign as the Alpha Dog on the D-corps feeds into his ambitions and could end up making him a bonafide star.  I wouldn't be surprised to see both careers benefit from this trade.

 

And while Kane may be a rotten apple in the locker room, we all know that Stafford was the last piece of the rotten Sabres core that's been dealt away.  Individually a lot of talented, good players - Connolly, Vanek, Pommer, Staff.  It seemed like they drew their strength from Drury and Briere and when both of those guys took free agent deals elsewhere, the rotting started.  There was never that leader to carry the team.

 

You're already seeing the new leaders emerge.  Zemgus is a workhorse.  He doesn't always put up the points but he always works hard and is hard to play against, plus he plays a very smart game.  Deslauriers is all heart, like a more skilled, less injury-prone Kaleta. The twin towers on D, Risto and Zadorov, have already bonded into a solid second D pairing, still with potential upside.  Now bring in the future talent and this team will flourish I think.

 

But to get back to the trade, a necessary part of that was to get rid of the last piece of the rotting core.  I like Drew, I think he's a good player, but he was the last remaining symbol of the slide to mediocrity.  The old core is done.  The Tank is nearly at an end.  Addition by subtraction.

[dudacek]

It's gonna be tough to convince me on the Myers/Bogosian argument when Bogo just played 32 plus minutes in one of the few sabres wins in recent memory. Good luck to Tyler Myers but I'll take Bogosian all day

 

He's certainly shown more than the Jets fans give him credit for. 

They make him sound like a tougher Gorges, which aint bad, but he's been better than that.

 

how he plays as a Jet Sabre is all i am concerned about...

 

 

 

Then I think we are both going to be very happy with this deal.

Is it possible the Jets may not have given Bogosian a chance to show his full potential because of injuries and their depth on defence?

Edited February 20, 2015 by dudacek

[DirtDart]

I have loved watching him play thus far. He logged almost 33 minutes tonight, and his play seemed to pick up through the end. He is going to be the anchor this d core has needed.

[LastPommerFan]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet in this thread, but according to NHLNumbers, Stafford was a retained salary trade, so technically, he's still on the Buffalo Sabres' Payroll. 

[X. Benedict]

So, I've read all 24 pages of the post and some comments are hilarious....

I'm a Jets fan and I can honestly say I like this trade a LOT better than the Hawerchuk deal.

 

In Bogo you get a tough D man for 65 games a year that will chip in with some points as well but he isn't there to be an offensive threat. He can get nasty but has to watch the dumb penalties...the stick penalties. Really good in the room. a 20-22 minute a game guy...... As good as Myers? Nope...... Close? If they are both on top of their game, not even close... He will play quite consistently and keeps the front of the net clear. Myers has made several comments about how the Jets play hockey and how much he likes the system and that everyone sticks to it no matter the score. A pretty good shot and an above average skater and passer.

In Kane you have a guy that needs to grow up some and that cold be a consistent 35-45 goal man with the right linemates and system to play in. He would need regular first line PP time as well. Excellent on the PK and very fast and hits anything (everything) on the opposing team. A great shot but doesn't like to pass too much. He plays old school hockey and will play through as much as the doctors will allow. He had his troubles in the room and had to be dealt. Did the Jets get fair market value for these two? Depends on how well Armia and Lemieux and the 1st turn out as well as if we re-sign Stafford but Myers is definitely a player. Salary wise, the jets shipped out about 10.4 and brought back 9.5 in cap hit. Myers contract was front loaded while bogos and Kanes get larger as it ages and Sabres pay half of Stafford's salry so advantage Jets. Chevy will need that money for Buff and Ladd and Frolik. Trouba, Lowry and Schiefele will want some cash when he re-signs too. 

 

 

Who do I think won the trade? Well, I am a Jets fan so naturally I think the Jets won; especially if you look at Chevy's drafting record. He knows how to pick them and doens't really care where other people have them ranked come draft day. Armia should easily be a 3rd liner and possibly a 2nd liner. I see Lemieux on the 3rd line between Petan and Armia in a couple years. So, 2 guys that should play on your team for the next 7-10 years on 2-3 line, Myers, A first rounder and Stafford for Bog and Kane. (I'm intentionally not mentiong Kasdorf because he will never play in the NHL). I'd make that trade any day of the week.

Glad you stopped by. Myers - there are things you will really like about him - such as his reach and the amount of ice he can cover in a few strides.

 

His work under the circles is where he really needs to develop. He has always struggled with the puck at his feet and facing the wall behind his net. He's really improved this year on that, but lacks the upper body strength, and with the high center of gravity he is a much more effective player in open ice. The good news is that I expect him to improve year to year. Myers has worked best in the past with a steady defense first guy on the left side....his most effective pairing to date was with Tallinder.

 

I really hope the trade works out for both teams, but I really do like what I'm seeing from Bogo. He's a much tougher player under the circles than Buffalo has had in a long time.

[darksabre]

Glad you stopped by. Myers - there are things you will really like about him - such as his reach and the amount of ice he can cover in a few strides.

 

His work under the circles is where he really needs to develop. He has always struggled with the puck at his feet and facing the wall behind his net. He's really improved this year on that, but lacks the upper body strength, and with the high center of gravity he is a much more effective player in open ice. The good news is that I expect him to improve year to year. Myers has worked best in the past with a steady defense first guy on the left side....his most effective pairing to date was with Tallinder.

 

I really hope the trade works out for both teams, but I really do like what I'm seeing from Bogo. He's a much tougher player under the circles than Buffalo has had in a long time.

Bogosian is who we want Weber to be.

[nfreeman]

So, I've read all 24 pages of the post and some comments are hilarious....

I'm a Jets fan and I can honestly say I like this trade a LOT better than the Hawerchuk deal.

 

In Bogo you get a tough D man for 65 games a year that will chip in with some points as well but he isn't there to be an offensive threat. He can get nasty but has to watch the dumb penalties...the stick penalties. Really good in the room. a 20-22 minute a game guy...... As good as Myers? Nope...... Close? If they are both on top of their game, not even close... He will play quite consistently and keeps the front of the net clear. Myers has made several comments about how the Jets play hockey and how much he likes the system and that everyone sticks to it no matter the score. A pretty good shot and an above average skater and passer.

In Kane you have a guy that needs to grow up some and that cold be a consistent 35-45 goal man with the right linemates and system to play in. He would need regular first line PP time as well. Excellent on the PK and very fast and hits anything (everything) on the opposing team. A great shot but doesn't like to pass too much. He plays old school hockey and will play through as much as the doctors will allow. He had his troubles in the room and had to be dealt. Did the Jets get fair market value for these two? Depends on how well Armia and Lemieux and the 1st turn out as well as if we re-sign Stafford but Myers is definitely a player. Salary wise, the jets shipped out about 10.4 and brought back 9.5 in cap hit. Myers contract was front loaded while bogos and Kanes get larger as it ages and Sabres pay half of Stafford's salry so advantage Jets. Chevy will need that money for Buff and Ladd and Frolik. Trouba, Lowry and Schiefele will want some cash when he re-signs too. 

 

 

Who do I think won the trade? Well, I am a Jets fan so naturally I think the Jets won; especially if you look at Chevy's drafting record. He knows how to pick them and doens't really care where other people have them ranked come draft day. Armia should easily be a 3rd liner and possibly a 2nd liner. I see Lemieux on the 3rd line between Petan and Armia in a couple years. So, 2 guys that should play on your team for the next 7-10 years on 2-3 line, Myers, A first rounder and Stafford for Bog and Kane. (I'm intentionally not mentiong Kasdorf because he will never play in the NHL). I'd make that trade any day of the week.

 

Welcome and come back anytime!

 

I think it's quite possible that Myers gets better and better over time and makes Jets fans very happy.  He's a good kid and probably has a higher ceiling than Bogo -- certainly in terms of creating offense.  When he's feeling confident and skating it up ice and taking it to the net, you can see flashes of Paul Freaking Coffey.  I'm not sure he'll ever be the intimidator in the defensive zone that you would want from a #1 defenseman -- that edge doesn't seem to be in his nature.  But again, while he's not a star defenseman right now -- and I think is pretty close to a wash with Bogo -- I wouldn't be surprised if he turns into one within 2-3 years.

 

I don't think there is much upside in Stafford, and I wouldn't want to commit more than 1-2 years to him if I were a Jets fan.  He's got all the physical tools, and also seems like a good guy, but not the mental focus needed to be a difference-maker.  It's not an effort issue, IMHO -- he just gets into long stretches where he's not locked in mentally and becomes completely ineffective.  As an extra forward that you can trust to play a responsible game and that you don't have to pay too much?  Fine, but he's not worth a bigger role or cap slot.

 

As for the picks and prospects -- who knows?  Any of them could be good, and any could wash out.  From the Sabres' perspective it seems like a fair price to pay for Kane, who is the kind of player the Sabres are dying for -- as long as he doesn't go off the deep end.

 

Anyway, good luck in the playoffs.  I'll be rooting for Myers.

[Ducky]

Well, he sure is easy to pick out on the ice, especially when the guy he plays with, Enstrom, is 5  10.

Babcock gave Winnipeg's D and Enstrom in particular some kudos after the Wings' game the other night. It jsut shows you don't HAVE to be big to play D. Although I wouldn't want the whole D corps under 6. On a side note Enstrom is the highest hit on the cap for us.

 

Babcock is a coach the Sabres should go after. I have nothing against Nolan but next year should be the first year of starting to get better and I think Babcock is the best coach on the planet. D men usually don't come into their prime until they are 27 or so which means both Bogo and Myers haven't hit their prime yet.

 

As far as Stafford goes, I pretty much agree that he is not a player I would invest on long term. We have a LOT of talent coming up in the next couple of years and we need room on the roster. There's a couple or 3 players that I would like to see replaced next season (Gagliardi, Halischuk, Peluso, Slater, although I would offer him a job in the organization). Players like Thorburn shouldn't play on anything but the 4th. Injuries are killing us this year and I think Chevy will still trade for a winger.

 

Good to hear you guys are happy with Bogo because from what I have heard, he is a great guy and besides, he is a hunter/fisherman so he has to be likable? Kaner would be a good guy for you guys to trade to Las Wages once they get a team. lol

[Eleven]

Well, he sure is easy to pick out on the ice, especially when the guy he plays with, Enstrom, is 5  10.

Babcock gave Winnipeg's D and Enstrom in particular some kudos after the Wings' game the other night. It jsut shows you don't HAVE to be big to play D. Although I wouldn't want the whole D corps under 6. On a side note Enstrom is the highest hit on the cap for us.

 

Babcock is a coach the Sabres should go after. I have nothing against Nolan but next year should be the first year of starting to get better and I think Babcock is the best coach on the planet. D men usually don't come into their prime until they are 27 or so which means both Bogo and Myers haven't hit their prime yet.

 

As far as Stafford goes, I pretty much agree that he is not a player I would invest on long term. We have a LOT of talent coming up in the next couple of years and we need room on the roster. There's a couple or 3 players that I would like to see replaced next season (Gagliardi, Halischuk, Peluso, Slater, although I would offer him a job in the organization). Players like Thorburn shouldn't play on anything but the 4th. Injuries are killing us this year and I think Chevy will still trade for a winger.

 

Good to hear you guys are happy with Bogo because from what I have heard, he is a great guy and besides, he is a hunter/fisherman so he has to be likable? Kaner would be a good guy for you guys to trade to Las Wages once they get a team. lol

 

Here's 3+ years' worth of this board's collective wisdom regarding Drew Stafford.  You may want to forward it to Chevaldayoff.  http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/20741-stafford-needs-to-go/