Robviously Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I just watched Edmonton get shut out by Ryan Miller and the 'nucks. But, how can Edmonton get shut out with back-to-back-to-back #1 overall picks leading up their offense? Tanking guarantees future success I am told. By who? Some of these posts are little goofy. We stripped our team to rebuild. We are going to bad for a few years, shocker. No one has ever said rebuilding your team from scratch guarentees anything. I really hate the word tanking. We got rid of our old core for a full on rebuild. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 As for Edmonton, I've come to view them as an outlier. There's a toxic combo of stupidity and arrogance at play there. Hahaha. Nice. The question was phrased as wanting something OUT not IN, so you know I'm talking about Terry. In Edmonton the owner is the ultimate fanboi in that he used to chum with Mactavish and the other players during the glory years long before he owned the team. These guys that belong to Edmontons old boy network are his friends. This management group could continue to make the same mistakes over and over and it doesn't matter. Alberta has a booming economy and the building is a sellout even without the wins. That may change with the falling oil prices and the cost of tarsand extraction but for now people continue to fill the seats. Is there a tipping point where the fans say fukc it ? My guess is the head coach will continue to be the fall guy and the G.M. and his cronies will continue to mismanage the team with impunity because the owner simply doesn't care. He's making his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 We're talking about Sidney Crosby. Every other tank job is incomparable. There was no chance to tank for syd, or we would have seen this exact attempt from teams in 2004. Samson was NEVER the target. Never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I missed the game last night and I'm trying to navigate all the post-game angst on these last couple pages, but here are my thoughts: 1. I thought we all knew we were going to suck this year. Is it the *way* we're sucking that's driving us nuts now? Because there's no way to suck and make it look good in really any sport. Coaches talk about "effort" non-stop because they can't flat out say "we just didn't put enough talent out on the ice tonight." Effort is something you can adjust. Talent is not. We don't have enough talent. 2. Not that our effort is maxed out. I subscribe to "Behavior = Personality x Situation", and right now the situation just sucks. It has to be tough for the legitimately good players on this team (Moulson, Ennis, etc.) when you know you don't have the supporting cast to compete. I don't care what your job is or how big your paycheck is, it's tough to go work every day when you don't think you're being placed in a position to succeed. 3. I think the Sabres are planning on another Top 5 pick this year. Good, that's better than 12th overall. That said, the period of allowing the team to bottom out must be over next Summer. Eleven made a point about not wanting any more trades for draft picks (might not be this thread) and he's completely right. We should get another cornerstone prospect at the top in 2015 and then make some bold moves to have a legitimate team come October 2015. Sign another Matt Moulson-type (overpay if need be). Trade our 2016 1st rounder for a Ryan O'Reilly-type. Trade a young guy we thought we'd rely on long-term (Myers, Ennis, Hodgson?) to shake things up. Not happy with where we are but still optimistic about where we're going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 We're talking about Sidney Crosby. Every other tank job is incomparable. There was no chance to tank for syd, or we would have seen this exact attempt from teams in 2004. Samson was NEVER the target. Never. People will still tell you the Penguins tanked for Crosby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 People will still tell you the Penguins tanked for Crosby. Got better by sucking is different than tanking. Rectangles and squares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 dim you know.. short for dim witted. or if you prefer, dim as in not the brightest bulb in the pack.... So Patty evaluated Murray as dim, and hired him anyway? Then allowed this dim individual to run him out of the organization? Right. Totally logical. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 People realize that there was a lockout before the Crosby draft, right? Also: not too long ago we all had a good discussion on whether or not this team is actually tanking. Are we? I mean they dealt off assets that likely weren't sticking around anyways to acquire future assets and then brought some in this offseason. Is that tanking or just rebuilding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 This is for Aud, too. I don't want Pegula determining the strategic direction of the franchise. It's not his job. You hire good hockey people to figure out how to win a Cup. I know that's considered naive, and not how it's ever been done. Because wealthy guys get to do what they want. To me, the oil and gas man owner staying out of things is the most logical way to become successful. Does Pegula have "hockey people" advising him on these decisions? Not really. I worry about who some of these guys are. Patrick's resume is impressive, but he came on board after, apparently, Pegula, two accountants and a lawyer decided where to take the franchise. I especially worry about how great it is for some of those guys to be in a place where they know they can slash payroll and still not lose the fan base. Pegula making the hire is inherently him setting the direction of the franchise, whether he makes subsequent directives or not. So even in your ideal world, he's still having more influence than you want. What you want is literally not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 People will still tell you the Penguins tanked for Crosby. They did. They learned how to perfect it after tanking for Lemieux. 1. I thought we all knew we were going to suck this year. Is it the *way* we're sucking that's driving us nuts now? Yep. We were historically bad last year. As in, throughout the history of the NHL, no team had ever been as good at sucking as the Sabres were last year. It appears that they are even worse this year. McDavid only brings them back to a playoff bubble team, which in a lot of other teams would cause a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) People will still tell you the Penguins tanked for Crosby. Umm, there was no NHL hockey the year before Crosby was drafted... Edited October 18, 2014 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I missed the game last night and I'm trying to navigate all the post-game angst on these last couple pages, but here are my thoughts: 1. I thought we all knew we were going to suck this year. Is it the *way* we're sucking that's driving us nuts now? Because there's no way to suck and make it look good in really any sport. Coaches talk about "effort" non-stop because they can't flat out say "we just didn't put enough talent out on the ice tonight." Effort is something you can adjust. Talent is not. We don't have enough talent. 2. Not that our effort is maxed out. I subscribe to "Behavior = Personality x Situation", and right now the situation just sucks. It has to be tough for the legitimately good players on this team (Moulson, Ennis, etc.) when you know you don't have the supporting cast to compete. I don't care what your job is or how big your paycheck is, it's tough to go work every day when you don't think you're being placed in a position to succeed. 3. I think the Sabres are planning on another Top 5 pick this year. Good, that's better than 12th overall. That said, the period of allowing the team to bottom out must be over next Summer. Eleven made a point about not wanting any more trades for draft picks (might not be this thread) and he's completely right. We should get another cornerstone prospect at the top in 2015 and then make some bold moves to have a legitimate team come October 2015. Sign another Matt Moulson-type (overpay if need be). Trade our 2016 1st rounder for a Ryan O'Reilly-type. Trade a young guy we thought we'd rely on long-term (Myers, Ennis, Hodgson?) to shake things up. Not happy with where we are but still optimistic about where we're going. In regards to #1: go peruse the prediction threads. There was a sizeable contingent who absolutely did not think we were going to truly suck (as in top-5 pick suck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I'm not going to read through entire thread to find it... Enroth got run, and Girgensons had a feeble response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Umm, there was no NHL hockey the year before Crosby was drafted... I know, right? You might as well say the Sabres tanked for Crosby, because they had the same shot at him that the Pens did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I know, right? You might as well say the Sabres tanked for Crosby, because they had the same shot at him that the Pens did. But did they, REALLY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Pegula making the hire is inherently him setting the direction of the franchise, whether he makes subsequent directives or not. So even in your ideal world, he's still having more influence than you want. What you want is literally not possible. I've never argued for Pegula having no involvement. The owner gets to hire someone to run the hockey side, unless he delegates that decision to a hockey person (team president?) but even then the owner has to find that person. And of course the owner ultimately decides when it's time for new leadership. I think you're making somewhat of a straw man argument. I have no problem with Terry's authority to retain Darcy at first and then fire him and to hire Pat LaFontaine and Craig Patrick to take over. I have no problem with him setting the mission, setting a tone for the franchise and so on. I do have a problem with where he crossed the line. And with the people he's hired. Terry doesn't look beyond the end of his nose. Terry knew Cliff, who encouraged him to solve his midlife crisis by buying the Sabres. Cliff knew Ted, and Ted knew Ken, and they all knew Craig. And they begat Jacob and Jacob begat Saul and... But did they, REALLY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I know, right? You might as well say the Sabres tanked for Crosby, because they had the same shot at him that the Pens did. Are there people who claim the Pens tanked for Crosby? And wow, we are doing a nice job of derailing a GDT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Are there people who claim the Pens tanked for Crosby? And wow, we are doing a nice job of derailing a GDT. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Yes. Bring them to me for the purpose of ridicule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I'm not going to read through entire thread to find it... Enroth got run, and Girgensons had a feeble response? Upshall turtled and the refs jumped in. Girgensons was throwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Upshall turtled and the refs jumped in. Girgensons was throwing. Scottie Upshall runs over Enroth behind the net and Zemgus Girgensons comes to his goaltender's aid. They each get minor penalties, but you cannot question that the team has each other's back. Take that for what it is worth. http://www.wgr550.com/Gamenight-Panthers-lead-Buffalo-1-0-in-3rd/20136138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Upshall turtled and the refs jumped in. Girgensons was throwing. Yeah at first I was like "kill em gus". But looking back it was a move of respect. Something you don't see much of in the NHL these days. Usually the player gets jumped and pummeled regardless of his desire to be invloved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Yeah at first I was like "kill em gus". But looking back it was a move of respect. Something you don't see much of in the NHL these days. Usually the player gets jumped and pummeled regardless of his desire to be invloved. If a guy runs your goalie, he doesn't get a vote. They should have pummeled him and made Gus' two minutes worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Agree with previous posters, after the curtain falls on this season and the draft picks fall where they may, there is no more trying to be bad on purpose on any level within the Sabres organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 If Girgensons response was a sexual encounter.......he eagerly and instinctively brought her into the bedroom and ripped off her panties while in the throws of passionate kissing. He then looked at her and hesitated for 10 seconds while volunteering the phrase, "just the tip ok?", even though she was ready for anything. Then after 2 half-hearted pumps, his cell phone rang, it was his mom, and he stopped to answer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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