Weave Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 This is a great example of an attitude that seems to be pretty common around here, the whole "I don't think they'll intentionally tank, but still will finish dead last" defense. It puzzles me a bit. It almost seems like the fans want to stand on some sort of moral high ground and say they're against tanking... all while holding out some hope that we land McDavid. I think that the attitude is, we've already done the immoral thing this past season and won't have to do anything other than reap what we've already sown to be in last place. Correct. That's how I see it. The team will suck again this season. They do not need to tank. They didn't, IMO, tank last season. They just sucked and even though they tried their darndest most nights the talent wasn't enough to win, even when they had a few very talented players. I think it is plenty damned obvious that they tanked last season. The talent wasn't enough to win because management made the conscious decision to not replace any of the NHL ready talent they moved out through trades, starting right around the Pominville deal. That is pretty much the definition of a tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's not really moral high ground or anything, at least as not as far as I'm concerned. This team doesn't have to try to suck. And the players and coaches assuredly won't. There's a difference between the players trying to suck and the front office trying to suck. That a very important distinction that I don't think most make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 There's a difference between the players trying to suck and the front office trying to suck. That a very important distinction that I don't think most make. Right, the former tends to only happen in the NBA, and the Colts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) There's a difference between the players trying to suck and the front office trying to suck. That a very important distinction that I don't think most make. What FAs do you think management will fail to target because of a tanking strategy? No older player is coming here unless on some sort of Tallinder "help the kids" deal. As for Rochester, whatever calluips there are, will play their ###### off. EDIT: By the way, ##### was "Kyrg-yzstan." I have no idea why it's censored. Edited April 22, 2014 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) I think that the attitude is, we've already done the immoral thing this past season and won't have to do anything other than reap what we've already sown to be in last place. While I don't agree with it bring immoral, I agree with this. We've traveled too far down the road, the die has been cast etc.... This isn't directed at weave, but I'm not sure where the notion of purposely tanking got laid on the players even a little bit. When the tank became obvious to all, I dont remember a single tank proponent here advocating a player led race to the bottom. The putrid display this season was clearly accomplished through roster manipulation only. Edited April 22, 2014 by Claude_Verret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Hey. We're half way there. Why change tactics now ? Play every game like its your last and end the season bottom 3 because we lack talent. Easy peasy. Thats not tanking thats unfortunate. Reap the benefits in 2 to 3 years and enjoy some of what you're seeing in Colorado this post-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 While I don't agree with it bring immoral, I agree with this. We've traveled too far down the road, the die has been cast etc.... I prefer, "the turd is in the toilet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Let me ask you this. The best players the Sabres have are probably going to include - Pysyk, McCabe, Risto, Zadorov and Rudi Do you want them to take up 5 of the 7 slots on the D next season? Or is it better to have these guys continue to develop in Rochester? (OHL for Z). Chad "kojak" Ruwehdal will never be among the best players on an NHL team. He's just not that good. He's Pysyk lite...and I'm not sure how good Pysyk is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 While I don't agree with it bring immoral, I agree with this. We've traveled too far down the road, the die has been cast etc.... Moral/immoral was used in response to the post I was replying to. Although I think you def can make an argument that purposely setting up to lose is of questionable morality, in the context of sports of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanbe Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I don't want a tank on purpose. But I don't see enough talent to get to the playoffs yet and I can see us in the 1-4 slot in drafting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Hmm can't believe i forgot about him but i did, he can take Ennis' spot, who'll gets traded to chicago for Leddy :D Hmmm that being said nobody mentioned i forgot Pysyk as well :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Adam's contract is up. I wouldn't be shocked if he's elsewhere next season. Why wouldn't Buffalo qualify him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Why wouldn't Buffalo qualify him? Depends on who they need to bring up to Rochester. He is a good AHL player and could even help with the Tank at the NHL level. Can't see Conacher here next season, but if he the "Tank" er Fix is in. We will suck and that is fine. Eleven, call it what you want, sucking because of lack of talent or lacking talent because you are tanking really doesn't matter... Tomatoe.... Tomatoe.... pronounce it like you want, I am hoping the Sabres end up with a top 2 draft pick next year while they develop the young guys in Rochester. Yeh, it is going to be tough to watch even if the effort is there. I just wish it was already next year at this point as far as the Sabres go. So guess we are in for a bit more suffering... Edited April 22, 2014 by Icehole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I want them to sign them all and any other UFA that would help us reach the ultimate goal. which is to win the cup. I would gladly forgo a chance at McDavid, or any one else in the 2015 draft, if it meant we were building to a cup. I just don't think signing the players you mentioned is very realistic. The Sabres will have a ton of cash and cap space, along with great facilities, a coach whom all players will speak highly of and a bounty of draft picks and young players suggesting that a rebound is in the hopper. There are also personal factors at work for Ott, Callahan and Orpik that could make them inclined to come here (or at least to consider it as a realistic option if the money is right). Give those 3 plus Stastny fat offers and it's not impossible that 2 or 3 of them accept. So I ask again: who wants to add those 4 guys, even if it means the Sabres finish 8th-last and not dead last next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Sabres will have a ton of cash and cap space, along with great facilities, a coach whom all players will speak highly of and a bounty of draft picks and young players suggesting that a rebound is in the hopper. There are also personal factors at work for Ott, Callahan and Orpik that could make them inclined to come here (or at least to consider it as a realistic option if the money is right). Give those 3 plus Stastny fat offers and it's not impossible that 2 or 3 of them accept. So I ask again: who wants to add those 4 guys, even if it means the Sabres finish 8th-last and not dead last next year? I'm fine with improving the team this summer and not waiting until the 2015 draft for some hope that the Sabres land the #1 pick. I'm not sure how much Callahan improves the team. Not much, I think, given injury history and age. I'll take Ott and Stastny in a heartbeat. Orpik, sure, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Murray already said that he's not pursuing free agents unless they come to him showing a desire to be in Buffalo. So that rules out over 90% of free agents. Most likely including Stastny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Murray already said that he's not pursuing free agents unless they come to him showing a desire to be in Buffalo. So that rules out over 90% of free agents. Most likely including Stastny. With the way Stastny, Landes(help), and Mackinnon have been playing, I don't know that they'd separate those guys by letting Stastny go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Murray already said that he's not pursuing free agents unless they come to him showing a desire to be in Buffalo. So that rules out over 90% of free agents. Most likely including Stastny. I interpreted that as him saying essentially that the Sabres aren't going to be begging players to consider taking their bags full of money -- i.e. that there has to be mutual interest. I agree that Stastny is the least likely to be interested, but I also think that any NHL agent will advise his client to meet with the Sabres -- because that's where the Benjamins are. With the way Stastny, Landes(help), and Mackinnon have been playing, I don't know that they'd separate those guys by letting Stastny go. Also a fair point. I do think though that Colorado is a budget team (they are $11MM under the cap this year) and will have a hard time giving Stastny $6MM+ per year and $40MM+ total, which is what he'll get as a UFA. They also have to pay O'Reilly, who is an RFA this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 There will also be Benjamins in Florida who has some pieces in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Benjamin Bishop is somewhere in Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I interpreted that as him saying essentially that the Sabres aren't going to be begging players to consider taking their bags full of money -- i.e. that there has to be mutual interest. I agree that Stastny is the least likely to be interested, but I also think that any NHL agent will advise his client to meet with the Sabres -- because that's where the Benjamins are. Also a fair point. I do think though that Colorado is a budget team (they are $11MM under the cap this year) and will have a hard time giving Stastny $6MM+ per year and $40MM+ total, which is what he'll get as a UFA. They also have to pay O'Reilly, who is an RFA this summer. forgot about O'Reilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 There will also be Benjamins in Florida who has some pieces in place. Of course, and in many other places as well. I do think though that the Sabres could have a decent shot at these guys if they are so inclined. However, my general sense is that they are not so inclined -- I think it's more likely that they don't make a real attempt at signing anyone noteworthy -- and that we'll see another year of GM-level tanking with the goal of getting McD or Eichel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'd love Stastny but I doubt he'd come here. If Tampa gets swept I could see Callahan preparing to head to Buffalo almost immediately after. As in agent talks and such. Orpik I think will be a Sabres player before he retires, rather or not he comes here this offseason or later is unknown. At very least if Orpik comes to Buffalo, we could trade Erhroff since we'd have the vet D-Man we need. Resign Ott, he'd be a very useful player and leader for the rest of the rebuild and future playoffs. Maybe grab Morrow too. Resign Tallinder, he's servicable Go after Moulson, maybe get him to return too, though I can only see that happening if Vanek goes to the Wild and Gaborik is signed by LA. Wishful Lines for 2014-2015 Moulson-Ennis-Stafford Girgensons-Hodgson-Callahan (You'd have to have one of the wingers cover the Center in the D-Zone) Morrow-Ott-Flynn Kaleta-Foligno-Michell Konopka? Myers-Pysyk Orpik-Risto Tallinder-Weber Ruhwedal? McBain? I doubt they'd be good enough to wow anyone, but I'd doubt we be in last by much and we'd certainly have entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'm not really interested in Ott or Callahan. I'm looking forward to seeing them getting deals elsewhere to put that to bed. I'd welcome Stastny, but I don't think he'd come here unless we paid him about twice as much as he's worth. Orpik is a guy I've said all along I'd like to add. He's 33 and would be able to finish his career close to home for good money if he wants it. Already has a cup. If Erik Cole gets bought out I would be interested in him on a cheap and short deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Sabres will have a ton of cash and cap space, along with great facilities, a coach whom all players will speak highly of and a bounty of draft picks and young players suggesting that a rebound is in the hopper. There are also personal factors at work for Ott, Callahan and Orpik that could make them inclined to come here (or at least to consider it as a realistic option if the money is right). Give those 3 plus Stastny fat offers and it's not impossible that 2 or 3 of them accept. So I ask again: who wants to add those 4 guys, even if it means the Sabres finish 8th-last and not dead last next year? Putting aside my desire for a roster-manipulated tank job again, I wouldn't want to do this anyway. I think we can agree it would take big money to get them here, we'd probably have to overpay the lot of them...and there's not a single first line player in the lot of them. Stastny is a soon-to-be 29 year old 2nd line center, Callahan a 29 year old 2nd line winger who is undersizsed and plays the game in a way that doesn't lend itself to longevity, Ott a 3rd line winger, and Orpik a 2nd pair (or should be, at this point in his career) Dman in decline. Is that worth two 7 year contracts at $6.5MM+ and another pair of contracts in the $5MMx4 range? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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