... Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 This is why I'm not so on board with bringing Nolan back. PR wise it will be a ###### storm if they let Nolan go again after such a short stint. Nolan will have to earn his spot just like everyone else. I don't see a problem with that. Again, the past is so far removed from the present, I think a lot of the fogies are over-estimating the nostalgic impact of Nolan's presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Nolan will have to earn his spot just like everyone else. I don't see a problem with that. Again, the past is so far removed from the present, I think a lot of the fogies are over-estimating the nostalgic impact of Nolan's presence. It appears from what LaFontaine has said that Nolan was brought in because they simply needed someone in that locker room to slap ppl awake. LaFontaine new Nolan and told him the new GM I pick can fire you just FYI. Nolan seems to understand and be very calm about the entire thing. I wonder if the new GM will keep Nolan for the season and then do a real search this summer for a coach and keep Nolan's hat in the ring if he performs well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 It appears from what LaFontaine has said that Nolan was brought in because they simply needed someone in that locker room to slap ppl awake. LaFontaine new Nolan and told him the new GM I pick can fire you just FYI. Nolan seems to understand and be very calm about the entire thing. I wonder if the new GM will keep Nolan for the season and then do a real search this summer for a coach and keep Nolan's hat in the ring if he performs well. Agreed on everything, and I assume the new GM will let Nolan finish the season and then make his search. Nolan's contract is probably just for the remainder of the season with maybe an option for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 :w00t: That would be a hoot. Welcome back to posting. It's been a while, although I do think you were lurking a bit. It's good to see you around. Not really, but the "recent viewers" section of our profiles page tells me you were lurking on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Not really, but the "recent viewers" section of our profiles page tells me you were lurking on mine. I'm betting its the photos of your junk that brings that boy to the yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Not really, but the "recent viewers" section of our profiles page tells me you were lurking on mine. Yep. Been spyin'. I'm betting its the photos of your junk that brings that boy to the yard. Yep. :flirt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Nolan will have to earn his spot just like everyone else. I don't see a problem with that. Again, the past is so far removed from the present, I think a lot of the fogies are over-estimating the nostalgic impact of Nolan's presence. Just wonderin if at 47 I am officially in the old fogie category? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Just wonderin if at 47 I am officially in the old fogie category? :unsure: What's that about Bryan Fogerty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) The dust settles. I'm taking a deep breath. There are two issues moving forward that I will be watching carefully. 1. Terry asks Pat to be GM and Pat says no. Terry says at the presser that Pat will be part-GM and that he believes in "cross pollination" of roles in the organization. To part-GM, Pat says, "Short-term, yeah." That is, while there is no GM in place. Pat may not believe in cross pollination, which can reasonably be interpreted to mean that the president is part-GM, the GM is part-president and the owner is part-president and so forth. This could get interesting. As Ghost said, if Pat bails on this gig, we know there's a problem. 2. Ted starts talking about transitioning from selling to building and says the team wasn't developing the way they thought it would. Pat talks about not only building through the draft but through trades, free agency, player movement. Has the timeline changed? Is there more of a win sooner than later mentality? Did Pat inherit the organizational plan to tank or can he develop his own plan? Edited November 15, 2013 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 The dust settles. I'm taking a deep breath. There are two issues moving forward that I will be watching carefully. 1. Terry asks Pat to be GM and Pat says no. Terry says at the presser that Pat will be part-GM and that he believes in "cross pollination" of roles in the organization. To part-GM, Pat says, "Short-term, yeah." That is, while there is no GM in place. Pat may not believe in cross pollination, which can reasonably be interpreted to mean that the president is part-GM, the GM is part-president and the owner is part-president and so forth. This could get interesting. As Ghost said, if Pat bails on this gig, we know there's a problem. 2. Ted starts talking about transitioning from selling to building and says the team wasn't developing the way they thought it would. Pat talks about not only building through the draft but through trades, free agency, player movement. Has the timeline changed? Is there more of a win sooner than later mentality? Did Pat inherit the organizational plan to tank or can he develop his own plan? Pat has a total logical plan. He sounds like many of us here....build a balanced team through a variety ways, but you need guys who have that special quality to get it done in the playoffs. I'm sure he told Pegula point blank that the original idea of free agents wasn't bad. It was just clueless in assembling workable chemistry and was not playoff efficient on balance. He also did say that impact guys tend to come from the front of the draft. But in reality, you know you are pretty much getting a top 5 pick this year. They already have extra ammo in picks the next 2 years, so I'm sure his plan isn't a total sell off now. They all said and Terry and Ted admitted....they need to change the culture of this team. That's a big admission, no matter how much they tried to spin things otherwise. Really....I think it was a simple as Darcy failed miserably with an open checkbook, and did some spreadsheet hocus pocus to convince Pegula that tanking is the way to go. There are no expectations to win, and he had a 3-5 year free pass and a job. Whoops!!! Backfired! Welcome to the world of actual hockey men trying to find men who play hockey. After 7 years of playing fantasy GM and business analyst on this board, it is nice to finally be able to sit back with a Mai Tai and relax....just being a fan again. Like you said...the statue is down and in all honesty.....I just want to forget about that guy after we all have our proper timeframe of celebration and catharsis. The plan: 1) Change the culture of what is expected on and off ice from all employees 2) Play out the year and ditch the dead wood 3) Miller, Ott and Moulson become fair game again. You only have 3 months to figure it out, but all 3 are worth keeping at the right level 4) Enjoy your #1-8 draft pick next year and extra picks 5) Trade and target in FA, quality players who can get you the last 16 wins, not necessarily the first 82 I'd expect the internal goal just switched to having a team capable of making the playoffs next season and being a Stanley Cup contender in 3 years. There is no M/O other than the word BALANCE. If it makes sense to ship out young guys...do it. At the same time you can bring in a young guy. BALANCE is always the key and you can hear that philosophy loud and clear from Patty. This is going to be fun. Win or lose, now everyone is actually going to be trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 (edited) 1. Terry asks Pat to be GM and Pat says no. That part of the story made me cringe just a little. It made Terry sound a bit clueless. Even so, at least he's reaching out for help from the right sorts of people. Terry says at the presser that Pat will be part-GM and that he believes in "cross pollination" of roles in the organization. To part-GM, Pat says, "Short-term, yeah." I remember PL correcting TP on something, but missed the context (because my head was spinning). Pat may not believe in cross pollination, which can reasonably be interpreted to mean that the president is part-GM, the GM is part-president and the owner is part-president and so forth. This could get interesting. As Ghost said, if Pat bails on this gig, we know there's a problem. I don't think Pat's reminder that he'd act as a sort of interim GM (along with Devine) only for a limited period of time is an indication that he doesn't believe in the sort of collaborative work that Pegula's talking about. Those are two different things, in my view. But ... As Ghost said, if Pat bails on this gig, we know there's a problem. For. Sure. I'm not going to wring my hands over that at this point. Pegula was there on the dais explaining that, with all pro sports teams, decisions get made through varying degrees of collaboration and cross-pollination. If PL were, as is being suggested, more of a "silo"/stay in your lane sort of guy, he'd already have sirens going off. There's no indication that that's the case. Quite the contrary. Has the timeline changed? Is there more of a win sooner than later mentality? Did Pat inherit the organizational plan to tank or can he develop his own plan? It would seem natural and inevitable that DR's timeline be scrapped and a new plan and vision be developed. Now, the two plans may end up having shared elements, completion dates, and milestones, but there's going to be a new plan. PL hasn't been hired as the builder for the existing #Blueprint -- he's been asked to lead a new architectural team, if you will. (And I tread lightly there, since I hate, hate, hate the #Blueprint metaphor.) Edited November 15, 2013 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Pat has a total logical plan. He sounds like many of us here....build a balanced team through a variety ways, but you need guys who have that special quality to get it done in the playoffs. I'm sure he told Pegula point blank that the original idea of free agents wasn't bad. It was just clueless in assembling workable chemistry and was not playoff efficient on balance. He also did say that impact guys tend to come from the front of the draft. But in reality, you know you are pretty much getting a top 5 pick this year. They already have extra ammo in picks the next 2 years, so I'm sure his plan isn't a total sell off now. They all said and Terry and Ted admitted....they need to change the culture of this team. That's a big admission, no matter how much they tried to spin things otherwise. Really....I think it was a simple as Darcy failed miserably with an open checkbook, and did some spreadsheet hocus pocus to convince Pegula that tanking is the way to go. There are no expectations to win, and he had a 3-5 year free pass and a job. Whoops!!! Backfired! Welcome to the world of actual hockey men trying to find men who play hockey. After 7 years of playing fantasy GM and business analyst on this board, it is nice to finally be able to sit back with a Mai Tai and relax....just being a fan again. Like you said...the statue is down and in all honesty.....I just want to forget about that guy after we all have our proper timeframe of celebration and catharsis. The plan: 1) Change the culture of what is expected on and off ice from all employees 2) Play out the year and ditch the dead wood 3) Miller, Ott and Moulson become fair game again. You only have 3 months to figure it out, but all 3 are worth keeping at the right level 4) Enjoy your #1-8 draft pick next year and extra picks 5) Trade and target in FA, quality players who can get you the last 16 wins, not necessarily the first 82 I'd expect the internal goal just switched to having a team capable of making the playoffs next season and being a Stanley Cup contender in 3 years. There is no M/O other than the word BALANCE. If it makes sense to ship out young guys...do it. At the same time you can bring in a young guy. BALANCE is always the key and you can hear that philosophy loud and clear from Patty. This is going to be fun. Win or lose, now everyone is actually going to be trying. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I think Terry gave Patty the keys to the hotrod and said "go!" I don't think there are any limitations on what Patty can/will do, as long as what he does gets them toward a Cup. I mean, I really got the impression that Terry just wants to get this done, despite his loyalties. I do not doubt that Terry will question some of Patty's moves - but I think that is exactly why he brought Patty here: to tell him "no" when it's necessary and/or appropriate. Patty, being the hockey-mind that he is, identified right off the bat the immediate problem that needs to be fixed now and going forward: the locker room. That's why he thought of Nolan: I don't know of any other NHL-level coach, without research at least, who comes to mind first in straightening out a locker room. Whatever other strengths and weaknesses Nolan has as a coach do not matter right now, and, kind of like Rolston, Nolan gets a chance to gear up for the permanent position. This is a huge opportunity for Nolan. So, I think, while Lafontaine may identify players, approve or deny player moves, and have his hand in the pot over staffing, I think his primary objective, right now, is to take over the wheel and steer the ship in the right direction. Apparently, and he would know better than us, the job of righting-the-ship is large enough where he does not want to take the time to learn how to GM a team, and would rather find one so he can get the rest of the operation on track to a Stanely Cup. That's it...I think two words that define all of the happenings this week are "STANLEY CUP", and I'm okay with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm sure someone has already said this, but I really like the idea of having a 2nd hockey man -- to whom the GM is accountable -- at the top of the organization. DR could've used one, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm sure someone has already said this, but I really like the idea of having a 2nd hockey man -- to whom the GM is accountable -- at the top of the organization. DR could've used one, that's for sure. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I think the fact that LaFontaine has been in the league, is a Hall of Fame player, his number is retired, he is respected league wide, he is smart, and he has already established he is comfortable saying NO to Pegula are all great signs. Someone with the Hockey brain needs to keep Pegula and his fantasy hockey aspirations in check. LaFontaine has the clout and ability to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Plus Mike Milbury hates him which means it's a perfect move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Pat LaFontaine talking about offering Nolan the job "...Well you gotta take the job first, for this year." This year makes it sound like Nolan will get the entire year and they will make a coaching decision in the offseason... or could be nothing. http://video.sabres.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=1373&id=485459&lang=en&utm_campaign=Wildfire+Message+-+Worth+a+watch.+Pat+LaFontaine+explains+the...&utm_content=po_615057&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Pat LaFontaine talking about offering Nolan the job "...Well you gotta take the job first, for this year." This year makes it sound like Nolan will get the entire year and they will make a coaching decision in the offseason... or could be nothing. http://video.sabres.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=1373&id=485459&lang=en&utm_campaign=Wildfire+Message+-+Worth+a+watch.+Pat+LaFontaine+explains+the...&utm_content=po_615057&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter Sometimes you just have to get the guy in the door. If Nolan doesn't make a dent on this team, then Patty looks stupid. Nolan by his emotions, showed just how much not only coaching in the NHL meant to him, but coming back to Buffalo means to him. His wife dropped the F-bomb for heaven's sake! I think Terry Pegula has righted himself in many categories with these hires. I firmly believe he loves following hockey and wants to win a Stanley Cup here. I know enough about Lafontaine to feel he is perfect for this fast-paced transition. I also think Ted Nolan has a burning heart of righteousness that was slightly conflicted his first stint here. With age and growth, you can just see he wants this. As long as he doesn't overdo it, I can very easily see him as coach into next year. This could be almost biblical in storyline over the next few years. The idea is there right now. Just pray that it goes as smooth as possible. To quote Mrs. Nolan...."You gotta be F'n kidding me?!!!" It's time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Plus Mike Milbury hates him which means it's a perfect move. Mike Milbury strikes me as the kind of person who hates puppies and kittens and little children asking for candy, and everything that is good in this world. mostly, I hate Mike Milbury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Sometimes you just have to get the guy in the door. If Nolan doesn't make a dent on this team, then Patty looks stupid. i have found this subject to be somewhat elusive. At first, I inferred that there was a clear understanding that they wanted him on a mercenary basis for this year only. Now it sounds like it's a legitimate audition. It's fine, I suppose. We can be assured that if Nolan pulls his Jack Adams winning act again, he won't be offered a 1-year extension. And if the team doesn't perform for him? The new GM will have all the cause he needs to thank him for his service and move on. Mike Milbury strikes me as the kind of person who hates puppies and kittens and little children asking for candy, and everything that is good in this world. mostly, I hate Mike Milbury Outside of the unquestioned villains in the world and history, I don't often think of public figures as true, legitimate POS's. Milbury may be in a class of 1 for me in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 To quote Mrs. Nolan...."You gotta be F'n kidding me?!!!" Link? Outside of the unquestioned villains in the world and history, I don't often think of public figures as true, legitimate POS's. Milbury may be in a class of 1 for me in that regard. I see him as the rare hybrid of incompetent bozo and aggressive meathead who nevertheless is good-looking and articulate enough to get on national TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Link? http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/bucky-gleason/an-older-wiser-nolan-embraces-second-chance-20131114 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I see him as the rare hybrid of incompetent bozo and aggressive meathead who nevertheless is good-looking and articulate enough to get on national TV. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/bucky-gleason/an-older-wiser-nolan-embraces-second-chance-20131114 Outstanding. Thanks. As someone who unfortunately missed most of the Lafontaine and Nolan era, I will say that so far, I love this guy. Game on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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