The "trial" of Terry Pegula

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Odd bird too. I just want that Cup and know deep down my hockey opinions would not be better than my GM's. Now on the business side I would meddle the ###### out of it.

 

Remember that Mike Milbury was once a GM and that a stranger pulled off the street probably could have done that job better.  As an owner who cares about more than making a profit on a team, don't you bear responsibility to oversee your product?

[PASabreFan]

Remember that Mike Milbury was once a GM and that a stranger pulled off the street probably could have done that job better.  As an owner who cares about more than making a profit on a team, don't you bear responsibility to oversee your product?

Oversee, absolutely. I do not want or crave a powerless owner who just writes the checks. Terry can set the mission, hire people to run the team, fire those people and so forth. He plays a huge role. Macro stuff. I'd even argue that as owner he should have a special veto power on the really big issues. "We're not tanking." "We're not signing that criminal." "Sorry, we're not trading Jack Eichel." Those situations would be very limited.

I continue to take issue with your dislike of Doug Allen. He's great! He respects the anthem and doesn't try to re-write it in his own image. A true pro's pro.

I don't dislike him. He's a good man and a fine singer. He just wouldn't be my anthem singer at a hockey game.

But is anyone really disputing the proposition that an owner shouldn't force hockey decisions on his GM if the goal is to produce the best team? My impression of this discussion is that many have said the owner is entitled to do what he wants with his team, while others have said essentially that he/she is not so entitled. Is anyone saying that owners weighing in on hockey decisions improves he on-ice product?

 

The rest of the discussion has revolved around a forensic discussion of children's tweets to speculate that/whether their dad did in fact meddle.

Not a fan of circumstantial evidence? Kid tweets that Dad likes Ehrhoff. Sabres sign Ehrhoff. And Terry later goes on the radio to say the signings were his decision, he wanted to do them. It's not a smoking gun, but pretty close.

[That Aud Smell]

But is anyone really disputing the proposition that an owner shouldn't force hockey decisions on his GM if the goal is to produce the best team? My impression of this discussion is that many have said the owner is entitled to do what he wants with his team, while others have said essentially that he/she is not so entitled. Is anyone saying that owners weighing in on hockey decisions improves he on-ice product?

I don't think people have been posting what you state above. People have been saying lots of other things. It has been an interesting discussion.

[dudacek]

How many of us could be Mirtle's perfect owner?

 

I know I am no Murray, but I have just enough hockey knowledge that I'm sure I would be driving him crazy grilling him about all the same I grill the rest of you about on here. Stamkos is his decision, but damn rights he better be exploring that option with everything he has at his disposal and giving me a full, nuanced report as to why it is or is not a good thing for us.

 

I hope I am a good enough manager to know the line between my job and his, but also a good enough manager to know it is my business to know his business and hold him accountable for doing it well.

 

Not sure if that makes me a meddler, or responsible.

Edited March 24, 2016 by dudacek

[qwksndmonster]

If I owned a hockey team I would lay in bed and watch cartoons all day because money.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Oversee, absolutely. I do not want or crave a powerless owner who just writes the checks. Terry can set the mission, hire people to run the team, fire those people and so forth. He plays a huge role. Macro stuff. I'd even argue that as owner he should have a special veto power on the really big issues. "We're not tanking." "We're not signing that criminal." "Sorry, we're not trading Jack Eichel." Those situations would be very limited.

 

Sorry, I'm having a tough time understanding this.  Signing Ehrhoff is meddling, yet deciding to tank, or not sign someone due to their personal makeup or not trading a player wouldn't be?

 

Personally, the organizational decision to go through with the tank is proof enough to me that Pegula isn't meddling.  It hurts you at the box office (yes, we sold out almost every seat but had to expand season ticket base to do so) and puts the onus on the scouting staff and GM to turn assets into success.  And agree or disagree with the method of tanking, at least it shows an organizational plan.  Beats the heck out of breaking even with Golisano. 

[PASabreFan]

Sorry, I'm having a tough time understanding this.  Signing Ehrhoff is meddling, yet deciding to tank, or not sign someone due to their personal makeup or not trading a player wouldn't be?

 

Personally, the organizational decision to go through with the tank is proof enough to me that Pegula isn't meddling.  It hurts you at the box office (yes, we sold out almost every seat but had to expand season ticket base to do so) and puts the onus on the scouting staff and GM to turn assets into success.  And agree or disagree with the method of tanking, at least it shows an organizational plan.  Beats the heck out of breaking even with Golisano. 

Very limited situations. Rare. If an owner doesn't want to put his fanbase through sheer hell, thinks tanking is immoral and isn't down for being historically bad for two seasons, I'd grant him the right to say no. The trade issue is probably the weakest part of that argument. Think more along the lines of Eichel becoming super-elite, our Lemieux or Gretzky. I wouldn't begrudge the owner veto power.

 

Actually, I suspect Terry did meddle to push the full tank through. I don't think Darcy was up for it, and that's why he's gone. I remember Darcy saying the extent of the rebuild would be Terry's decision. Is this one of the special meddling exceptions? I'd say no.

 

Re: the Golisano remark. I'm not talking about Terry here, but tanking is a great way for a cost-conscious owner to improve the bottom line while looking like he's trying to turn things around.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Very limited situations. Rare. If an owner doesn't want to put his fanbase through sheer hell, thinks tanking is immoral and isn't down for being historically bad for two seasons, I'd grant him the right to say no. The trade issue is probably the weakest part of that argument. Think more along the lines of Eichel becoming super-elite, our Lemieux or Gretzky. I wouldn't begrudge the owner veto power.

 

Actually, I suspect Terry did meddle to push the full tank through. I don't think Darcy was up for it, and that's why he's gone. I remember Darcy saying the extent of the rebuild would be Terry's decision. Is this one of the special meddling exceptions? I'd say no.

 

Re: the Golisano remark. I'm not talking about Terry here, but tanking is a great way for a cost-conscious owner to improve the bottom line while looking like he's trying to turn things around.

 

Good points, I guess in all of the rush to tank, I never really thought about who actually made the overall decision.  For most GM's, if you pitch that method you probably have a pink slip in 1-3 years so it would go against their interest for self preservation.  So yeah, odds are this was probably the mission driven by Pegula.  Makes me wonder about Toronto with all the spending they've done in their front office, in 2-3 years will we see something totally different there if they are stagnant?

 

The economics of a tank also interest me - Buffalo is probably the worst place to do it in considering the building has been mostly full, but if you pull this stunt in Miami or Carolina odds are you would take a real hit at the box office.  If your salary is 20-30M under the cap though, maybe that is good business?  For years the Bills did this with "cash to cap" but I think the NFL is a different animal with revenue sharing. 

[That Aud Smell]

No apologies - this is the thread to resurrect when I see interesting feedback on the matter of "meddling."

 

Whither X, btw? I trust he'll return when hockey does.

 

I was linked to a write-up that Friedman (sp?) did on the blockbuster day from late June (Hall-Larsson/Suban-Weber/Stamkos), and there was this tidbit about 2/3 the way through:

 

If someone had told him the 2016-17 NHL season would begin without Seth Jones and Weber on the Nashville roster, what would Poile have said?

“Nothing is impossible, but how would that happen?” he laughed.

What did ownership say when you told them?

“I really don’t think I should get into that,” Poile replied. “But you could say there was shock.”

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/23-minutes-shook-hockey-world/

There'd been a lot of talk about how major roster moves would ALWAYS be cleared ahead of time with ownership (because of course they must be). But that quote seems to suggest that maybe Poile made the move and then advised ownership. (Who are the NSH owners, btw?)

Cripes. I forgot it was Brawndo who linked me to it:

 

 

Interesting read about the events from June 29th.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/23-minutes-shook-hockey-world/

 

[Hank]

Both trades made the Preds better long term and short term. I think Poile is grossly underrated simply because he's in Nashville.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm glad this thread stays open, just so I can append to it now and then with stuff I see out there.

 

There's this from Drew Magary's most recent funbag:

 

Aside from watching their own teams, how much football does your average NFL owner actually watch? I think aside from their own team’s games and maybe a few other games that have playoff implications, not much at all. It explains why someone like Snyder is so terrible at football and always signs players way past their prime.

 

Oh, I think the number of NFL owners who actively enjoy the spot of football is less than half. I bet most of them HATE football. Like, I bet Dean Spanos actively resents having to sit in a luxury booth for three hours every Sunday when he could be at the Beverly Wilshire hobnobbing with actors and talking up five-stars escorts instead. These people only care about football as a delivery device for money and power. Only a handful of them, like the Double J, are invested in the sport itself.

 

On a certain level, that’s actually fine. You’ve seen what happens when an owner actually pays attention to these games. I’d rather have an owner like Paul Allen—who clearly gives no ###### about the sport—than some shitheel like Danny Snyder pretending to be Mr. Football and meddling in everything just to prove something to his dead daddy. No thank you.

 

http://deadspin.com/what-amazing-sports-plays-are-no-longer-special-1818542168

Edited September 19, 2017 by That Aud Smell

[WildCard]

I'd rather be talking up 5-star escorts than almost anything else I can imagine

[Doohickie]

I'd rather be talking up 5-star escorts than almost anything else I can imagine

 

Reading this in isolation, it seems kind of creepy weird.

 

Going back a post to see what triggered it doesn't really improve things.

 

 

 

 

 

:P

[WildCard]

Reading this in isolation, it seems kind of creepy weird.

 

Going back a post to see what triggered it doesn't really improve things.

 

 

 

 

 

:P

I mean I can replace 'talking' if you really want

[Doohickie]

:D

[MattPie]

I'd rather be talking up 5-star escorts than almost anything else I can imagine

 

"I bet you didn't know that the 2017 Ford Escort gets an overall 5-star rating from the NHTSA, did you? It's a seriously great car." You're right, wildcard, it *is* fun talking up 5-star escorts.

[Doohickie]

"I bet you didn't know that the 2017 Ford Escort gets an overall 5-star rating from the NHTSA, did you? It's a seriously great car." You're right, wildcard, it *is* fun talking up 5-star escorts.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I miss PA.

 

I don't think he is coming back this time.

[WildCard]

I miss PA.

 

I don't think he is coming back this time.

Season hasn't started yet. I hope he does, seeing as this is the first season in what? 4 years? where we can actually discuss hockey 

[hsif]

Posted Yesterday, 04:39 PM

WildCard, on 19 Sept 2017 - 3:36 PM, said:

I'd rather be talking up 5-star escorts than almost anything else I can imagine

 

"I bet you didn't know that the 2017 Ford Escort gets an overall 5-star rating from the NHTSA, did you? It's a seriously great car." You're right, wildcard, it *is* fun talking up 5-star escorts.

 

 

 

This thread is like a box of chocolates......... you just never know.

[That Aud Smell]

Jeebus — he’s back drilling *in Coudersport*.

 

http://www.investigativepost.org/2018/05/08/pegula-back-fracking-and-violating-regulations/

[Weave]

Jeebus — he’s back drilling *in Coudersport*.

 

http://www.investigativepost.org/2018/05/08/pegula-back-fracking-and-violating-regulations/

Justifies PA’s distrust of the man IMO.

[That Aud Smell]

Justifies PA’s distrust of the man IMO.

 

I've offered my mea culpas, I believe. Just about ehhhr-one here was boo/hissing PA when, even in the throes of the Pegula Day honeymoon, he (PA) was raising questions about the guy's background, activities, motivations, and the like. My take at the time -- and a view widely shared, I think -- was that Pegula was leaving the gas and oil business in order to retire to the leisure of owning pro sports teams.

 

Not so much, it turns out.

[PASabreFan]

I've offered my mea culpas, I believe. Just about ehhhr-one here was boo/hissing PA when, even in the throes of the Pegula Day honeymoon, he (PA) was raising questions about the guy's background, activities, motivations, and the like. My take at the time -- and a view widely shared, I think -- was that Pegula was leaving the gas and oil business in order to retire to the leisure of owning pro sports teams.

 

Not so much, it turns out.

I don't think he ever left the business. He DID say he'd drill another well if he needed the money.

 

The intersection in tiny Coudersport of two Buffalo Sabres owners born in PA is quite intriguing. I wonder if they've met, now that John is out of prison and living back in town.

[That Aud Smell]

I don't think he ever left the business. He DID say he'd drill another well if he needed the money.

 

The intersection in tiny Coudersport of two Buffalo Sabres owners born in PA is quite intriguing. I wonder if they've met, now that John is out of prison and living back in town.

 

At the time, I took that comment as a 100% wink-wink joke.

 

The Coudersport thing is nothing short of bizarre.