TrueBlueGED Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 My point was more about rookie qbs than qbs picked high. Seems like now every qb has to be rg3 or luck their rookie year or they are busts. On the flip side, you have some rookie QBs who look the part as rookies, then go on to flame out (I'm looking at you, Josh Freeman). A rookie season is just way too small of a sample to know one way or the other. And EJ missing preseason and regular season time just exacerbates the problem. I saw some things I liked and I saw some things I didn't like, but I'm not about to proclaim him a bust or a franchise player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) but I'm not about to proclaim him a bust or a franchise player. I am :thumbdown: Edited January 3, 2014 by wjag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Glennon looked very good overall. Statistically he also was very good for a rookie. If I knew you personally, I would be you $100 that Glennon will be a starting NFL QB in three years and Manuel won't. Yes. This is why I talked myself into liking the pick a couple weeks later. If you think a player is a franchise QB, and you need one, make the pick and don't look back. Nobody called him that. Someone was clearly implying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Someone was clearly implying it. That's not even remotely what Stebb said. He's talking about from the team's perspective--if a team in need of a franchise QB thinks somebody can be that guy, they should draft him ASAP as to not rusk losing him, regardless of what anyone thinks or says about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) That's not even remotely what Stebb said. He's talking about from the team's perspective--if a team in need of a franchise QB thinks somebody can be that guy, they should draft him ASAP as to not rusk losing him, regardless of what anyone thinks or says about it. I understood what Stebb was saying but the team and other ppl have insinuated that they took EJ where they did because they think he can be a franchise QB. I was asking why or what anyone saw that would make them think that. Now instead we have spent several posts arguing about if anyone has suggested it. Edited January 3, 2014 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I understood what Stebb was saying but the team and other ppl have insinuated that they took EJ where they did because they think he can be a franchise QB. I was asking why or what anyone saw that would make them think that. Now instead we have spent several posts arguing about if anyone has suggested it. I admit, I suggested it. The team suggested it when they drafted him. Labeling him a bust after 10 games and limited preseason action seems kind of crazy to me (as does labeling him our definitive franchise guy). I was simply saying that the Bills believe he can be the Franchise guy, and I believe with some further coaching, he just may turn out to be that guy. As I posted earlier, a lot of his weaknesses this year can be attributed to lack of experience. Now that he has seen NFL defenses and has experienced the new speed, he should adapt. If he can't adapt by the end of next year, then, and only then will I agree with you. I believe 90% of his downfalls are coachable. he's a coachable player. He will get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'd say the evidence is in favor of those stating that Manuele isn't a franchise QB player. We certainly didn't see franchise-caliber play from him this year, and he also proved injury prone. The pro Manuele fans pretty much rest their case on maybes. Maybe he'll do this, maybe he'll do that. I'm from Missouri - SHOW me! I didn't think his draft report showed him to be the QB that the Bills wanted or needed, and I saw NOTHING this season that suggested he will exceed his draft report. But old Buddy Nix HAD to draft a QB that year, during a very poor QB year- couldn't be 2012 or 2014 or 2015. HAD to be then. Big strategic error on the part of the Bills - but what else is new? It seems like many player personnel decisions are slanted towards marketing, and filling some seats for a few months, more than building a championship team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) If there is a QB at 9 who could be better than EJ, you take him. There are no other gaps to fill. QB is the only position that matters until you fill it. If no one better than EJ is available, go ahead and pick something else. But in no case, should the Bills leave a potential Top QB on the board at 9. Edited January 3, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 If johnny football is there at 9.....should we take him? This is tough, because the kid is small and may have some immaturity issues, however he can be a real game changer..... I just don't know if his speed translates to the NFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 If johnny football is there at 9.....should we take him? This is tough, because the kid is small and may have some immaturity issues, however he can be a real game changer..... I just don't know if his speed translates to the NFL He probably won't be available, but even if he is - Although his performance in the Chik-Fil-A Bowl was off the chart, I suspect he'll get crushed in the NFL given the overall size and strength increase in the defensive players doing the hitting. The elite QBs in the NFL seem to be fairly conventional - predominately throwers vs runners. RG3 was very impressive at first - but he has taken a pounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 If johnny football is there at 9.....should we take him? This is tough, because the kid is small and may have some immaturity issues, however he can be a real game changer..... I just don't know if his speed translates to the NFL Yes. I won't say EJ is a bust, I will say he's pretty fragile. If you go with the running type QB (which EJ needs to be at this point), I think you need quality depth due to the high probability of injury. Who starts, and who's depth, matter not to me. It could be more of a pitching rotation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Someone was clearly implying it. Reading comprehension issues. I think the opposite about EJ. My point was a general statement about teams and drafting QBs. If a team truly believes that a certain prospect is their franchise QB then they have to take him regardless of what the media and fans think. Doesn't mean it isn't a huge mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 My thoughts on EJ are that he isn't the answer, and if he doesn't improve significantly in year three then we would be stupid not to make a strong push for Winston or Mariota (barring either having a terrible year or have injuries to thrn next year). I get that one year isn't fair to make a complete assessment, but his complete lack of accuracy and failure to show any real positive signs is alarming. Future NFL starters or franchise QBs generally show signs of something in their rookie season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 My thoughts on EJ are that he isn't the answer, and if he doesn't improve significantly in year three then we would be stupid not to make a strong push for Winston or Mariota (barring either having a terrible year or have injuries to thrn next year). I get that one year isn't fair to make a complete assessment, but his complete lack of accuracy and failure to show any real positive signs is alarming. Future NFL starters or franchise QBs generally show signs of something in their rookie season. I don't believe he mishandled any handoffs this season.. So there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 My thoughts on EJ are that he isn't the answer, and if he doesn't improve significantly in year three then we would be stupid not to make a strong push for Winston or Mariota (barring either having a terrible year or have injuries to thrn next year). I get that one year isn't fair to make a complete assessment, but his complete lack of accuracy and failure to show any real positive signs is alarming. Future NFL starters or franchise QBs generally show signs of something in their rookie season. To say he showed nothing is to show your bias. I get that its hard to move on from your initial thoughts but to say he showed nothing is an exaggeration. Like I have said before, I have no idea how he will progress but he showed enough in the leadership and poise department to go along with his obvious athletic skills to give me some hope for the future. On a side note, reading some clippings from Tampa and I may revise my bet offer, Glennon might not even make it through training camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Who are the QBs in the NFL that came out of college, made an impact their first year, and continued to make an impact year after year after that? They are few and far between. The pressure and expectations we put on newly drafted QBs is a little unreasonable in my mind. All the great QBs in the game today spent several years either being terrible or as a backup before they took over: Eli, Rodgers, Payton, Brady, Brees… All the young guys that are hot this year are still a question mark for the future, and even if they win now, they might end up being average overall. To make a judgment/judgement on EJ after this year is a little silly in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Who are the QBs in the NFL that came out of college, made an impact their first year, and continued to make an impact year after year after that? They are few and far between. The pressure and expectations we put on newly drafted QBs is a little unreasonable in my mind. All the great QBs in the game today spent several years either being terrible or as a backup before they took over: Eli, Rodgers, Payton, Brady, Brees… All the young guys that are hot this year are still a question mark for the future, and even if they win now, they might end up being average overall. To make a judgment/judgement on EJ after this year is a little silly in my mind. Outside of his 4qtr play against Carolina, he showed very little skill and leadership. As the season went on, his performance degraded. He was outplayed by a practice squad QB. Sure it is rough to judge him this way in his rookie season. But last time I checked, he is cashing the checks of a starting QB but playing like a 3rd stringer. I've seen enough, or really, not enough, to convince me he is a bust. Draft another QB. EJ should get a second season, but to think he will improve is only based on hopeful thinking and not by what he has demonstrated this year. Geno Smith had an equally tough year, but there he was in the last game against Miami knocking them out of the playoffs. I just don't see the qualities it takes to win in EJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Who are the QBs in the NFL that came out of college, made an impact their first year, and continued to make an impact year after year after that? They are few and far between. The pressure and expectations we put on newly drafted QBs is a little unreasonable in my mind. All the great QBs in the game today spent several years either being terrible or as a backup before they took over: Eli, Rodgers, Payton, Brady, Brees… All the young guys that are hot this year are still a question mark for the future, and even if they win now, they might end up being average overall. To make a judgment/judgement on EJ after this year is a little silly in my mind. I agree with your point, but as much as it pains me, I'm not sure Brady ever struggled till maybe this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) To say he showed nothing is to show your bias. I get that its hard to move on from your initial thoughts but to say he showed nothing is an exaggeration. Like I have said before, I have no idea how he will progress but he showed enough in the leadership and poise department to go along with his obvious athletic skills to give me some hope for the future. On a side note, reading some clippings from Tampa and I may revise my bet offer, Glennon might not even make it through training camp. Immediately after the draft, being the forever optimistic for no reason Bills fan that I am, I made myself love EJ. I watched highlights (worst judge of a prospect) to make myself feel better. I was really looking forward to him. But he never did anything that warrants excitement or commitment. No Bills QB has had the attitude he has in so long. That's the one redeeming quality I've seen. He loves being in Buffalo and wants it A LOT. I just don't think his body or skillset want it as much. As far as Glennon goes: he struggled through the last few games but he showed a lot of promise at times this season. That warrants hope. He'll get a shot elsewhere if they don't give him one. Not sure Tampa really has any options otherwise. Edited January 4, 2014 by DStebb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Outside of his 4qtr play against Carolina, he showed very little skill and leadership. As the season went on, his performance degraded. He was outplayed by a practice squad QB. Sure it is rough to judge him this way in his rookie season. But last time I checked, he is cashing the checks of a starting QB but playing like a 3rd stringer. I've seen enough, or really, not enough, to convince me he is a bust. Draft another QB. EJ should get a second season, but to think he will improve is only based on hopeful thinking and not by what he has demonstrated this year. Geno Smith had an equally tough year, but there he was in the last game against Miami knocking them out of the playoffs. I just don't see the qualities it takes to win in EJ. Save for a couple of ill timed fumbles, EJ leads them back over Atlanta and who knows from there. Since the probability for all players is skewed toward failure, how can one argue that you might be right, but for anyone to know absolutely, its just not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Outside of his 4qtr play against Carolina, he showed very little skill and leadership. As the season went on, his performance degraded. He was outplayed by a practice squad QB. Sure it is rough to judge him this way in his rookie season. But last time I checked, he is cashing the checks of a starting QB but playing like a 3rd stringer. I've seen enough, or really, not enough, to convince me he is a bust. Draft another QB. EJ should get a second season, but to think he will improve is only based on hopeful thinking and not by what he has demonstrated this year. Geno Smith had an equally tough year, but there he was in the last game against Miami knocking them out of the playoffs. I just don't see the qualities it takes to win in EJ. EJ Is payed on the rookie wage scale. He's making nowhere near the money that starting QBs make. And I think he will improve based on his work ethic, intelligence, and the flashes he showed (which to some were non existent). I'm certainly not opposed to taking a QB in the draft, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I agree with your point, but as much as it pains me, I'm not sure Brady ever struggled till maybe this year. And even he spent a year as a backup. And wjag, IMO Thad did not outplay EJ. If anything, it was a push, which I would then have to give to the rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Colts-Chiefs > Sabres-Devils. What a football game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Colts-Chiefs > Sabres-Devils. What a football game. Holy crap! When I stopped watching, I thought it was over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Holy crap! When I stopped watching, I thought it was over. I think Luck has reached (or is in the process of, anyway) "never count him out" status. This is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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