dEnnis the Menace Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 There pretty much isn't anything the Bills don't need. My end of the year assessment is that: Kiko, Goodwyn and Woods were good draft picks. Do more of that. I'd like to see a true run stuffing DL, OLB and TE be high picks. They could also use a franchise OT. I would start Thad Lewis and never look back (at least for next year). I have really soured on EJ. I'm truly amazed Kiko did not get hurt this year. He might be the only true, blue chip football player on the team. except I believe you're seeing the best you're ever going to see out of Thad. I believe that with a a full offseason of training the way the coaches want him to, and a little work on his part, EJ can become much better. He isn't anywhere near his ceiling yet. I can't believe so many people are ready to give up on him so quickly. It always seems in Buffalo, that fans know best in regards to our QB situation, believing that our backup is always better than our starter. It's kind of crazy IMHO. The kid played in 10 games all year, played with a shoddy offensive line that couldn't keep him upright, and a revolving door at WR (Stevie was out 3 games not to mention was hobbled for others, Goodwin missed games, Woods missed games, etc.). Not to mention he is much more secure with the ball than Thad. Thad appears to be the spokesman for Fumble-itis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 There pretty much isn't anything the Bills don't need. My end of the year assessment is that: Kiko, Goodwyn and Woods were good draft picks. Do more of that. I'd like to see a true run stuffing DL, OLB and TE be high picks. They could also use a franchise OT. I would start Thad Lewis and never look back (at least for next year). I have really soured on EJ. I'm truly amazed Kiko did not get hurt this year. He might be the only true, blue chip football player on the team. One thing that surprised me is that John Murphy mentioned that Bills would like a true MLB and move Kiko to the outside. I haven't heard that anywhere else but seems to make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 except I believe you're seeing the best you're ever going to see out of Thad. I believe that with a a full offseason of training the way the coaches want him to, and a little work on his part, EJ can become much better. He isn't anywhere near his ceiling yet. I can't believe so many people are ready to give up on him so quickly. It always seems in Buffalo, that fans know best in regards to our QB situation, believing that our backup is always better than our starter. It's kind of crazy IMHO. The kid played in 10 games all year, played with a shoddy offensive line that couldn't keep him upright, and a revolving door at WR (Stevie was out 3 games not to mention was hobbled for others, Goodwin missed games, Woods missed games, etc.). Not to mention he is much more secure with the ball than Thad. Thad appears to be the spokesman for Fumble-itis. Maybe... I have three things I judge EJ on: 1. Durability... 3 knee injuries. I don't accept the poor O-line excuse. Flacco in B-more got sacked more and he managed to stay upright all season (he was limited the last two games, but played).. EJ is a walking infirmary. Warning signs were there in the preseason. 2. Fitz-vision ... He can't see the play develop in enough time to pass downfield. He doesn't have the accuracy to trust his throws and his reads are not NFL level. My opinion. 3. "It" ... He doesn't have 'it'. What's 'it'? That intangible quality of a winner. The quality that believes he can complete a tight pass into coverage. I recognize this is purely subjective, but it is what I believe. I just don't see us elevating him to the QBs with 'it' like Mannings (2), Brady, Brees, or Rogers Give Thad a full season and see what happens. I don't believe Thad has 'it' either, but he has more of what it takes to be a QB then EJ. EJ is apparently one or two hits from an IR stint. You can't run a football team with a revolving door at QB. EJ in for two, out for three. I agree with those that say keep drafting QBs until you get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Maybe... I have three things I judge EJ on: 1. Durability... 3 knee injuries. I don't accept the poor O-line excuse. Flacco in B-more got sacked more and he managed to stay upright all season (he was limited the last two games, but played).. EJ is a walking infirmary. Warning signs were there in the preseason. 2. Fitz-vision ... He can't see the play develop in enough time to pass downfield. He doesn't have the accuracy to trust his throws and his reads are not NFL level. My opinion. 3. "It" ... He doesn't have 'it'. What's 'it'? That intangible quality of a winner. The quality that believes he can complete a tight pass into coverage. I recognize this is purely subjective, but it is what I believe. I just don't see us elevating him to the QBs with 'it' like Mannings (2), Brady, Brees, or Rogers Give Thad a full season and see what happens. I don't believe Thad has 'it' either, but he has more of what it takes to be a QB then EJ. EJ is apparently one or two hits from an IR stint. You can't run a football team with a revolving door at QB. EJ in for two, out for three. I agree with those that say keep drafting QBs until you get one. Manuele's play, when he wasn't hurt, confirmed this drafting report assessment quite well, I thought. http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013emanuel.php Strengths: Dual-Threat Quarterback Powerful arm Excellent mobility Size and strength Escapability Experienced Quick release Weaknesses: Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions Runs to quickly Spotty accuracy Can panic at times Didn't play as well against good defenses And the problem I've seen with these running QBs is that they tend to be injury prone, especially when they don't protect themselves. Manuel's first regular season injury plays into the bullet point "Decision making" - he ran for a first down, ok fine, he had the first down - a SMART QB steps out of bounds, especially knowing you have CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson for the dedicated running attack, but he made a bad decision to try and hammer down the sidelines like a running back for extra yards. And he got nailed and injured. So, you have a running QB who isn't quite smart enough to protect himself - and that's a formula in my estimation for frequent appearances on the IR list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 The Bills talked about trading down again but decided not to because of rumors that Philly would take Manuel. Manuel might have lasted till the 2nd round , he never would have lasted till the third. I have no idea if Manuel will develop into a franchise QB, no one does. Hell after last year Griffin and Kapernick were sure fire franchise guys and now their teams aren't so sure. The notion that anyone knows for sure about any QB other then Luck before they play at least three years is laughable. I've heard this and I don't buy it one bit. I don't think the Browns or Eagles were taking Manuel. I wish they would've, but I don't believe the rumors about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 I still feel if Manziel is available, not likely, the Bills should pick him. But if he is not, Buffalo should go for a game changing tight end and take a left tackle or guard in the second round. The tight end I'd like the Bills to land is Eric Ebron. The guy is big, fast and has incredible hands. In my opinion, he's a worthy top 15 pick. Maybe Buffalo can trade down to number 13 or so and gain an additional pick in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 This is where I am too. I would just add that they won't really be trying to win until they terminate the Toronto abomination. Absolutely. It's an embarrassment now with the Bills being irrelevant every year, but imagine if they ever played a game of real importance up there? You know like with the Bills actually leading the division or holding onto a wild card spot and they have to play in that atmosphere and lose. I know, I know, time to lay off the crack pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Strengths: Dual-Threat Quarterback -- maybe, but his running doesn't scare any team Powerful arm -- I'll go with strong arm Excellent mobility -- not buying it. Size and strength -- sure Escapability -- not buying it Experienced -- says who? Quick release -- anyone can throw a slant. Weaknesses: Not a natural passer -- agreed Decision-making -- agreed Field vision -- agreed Struggles to work through progressions -- agreed Runs to quickly -- not sure about this Spotty accuracy -- agreed Can panic at times -- not sure about this Didn't play as well against good defenses -- he's a rookie, I'll wait to assess this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 I've heard this and I don't buy it one bit. I don't think the Browns or Eagles were taking Manuel. I wish they would've, but I don't believe the rumors about that. So you choose to believe the so called experts when they give you their informed opinion of a prospect but you choose no to believe them when they report on draft gossip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 TE is probably my #1 target this offseason. Assuming EJ is the starter again, I think an impact TE would be huge for him. I'd also like them to address the OL and get another WR. The defense is far from perfect, but my first, second, and third priorities this offseason are offense. If EJ is going to fail I want him to fail because he wasn't good enough, not because the pieces around him weren't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 So you choose to believe the so called experts when they give you their informed opinion of a prospect but you choose no to believe them when they report on draft gossip? It wasn't the experts that were reporting it. It all grew from Manuel saying that the Browns and Eagles really wanted him. Good move for him to push himself up the draft board. When it comes to the NFL draft, I believe very little that is reported in the few days before and after. It's all agents pushing their own prospects up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Look on the bright side, only two more years until the new coach gets here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 One thing that surprised me is that John Murphy mentioned that Bills would like a true MLB and move Kiko to the outside. I haven't heard that anywhere else but seems to make sense. I've heard Pettine talk about how versatile Kiko is but they couldn't move him around because of the need at MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 I've heard Pettine talk about how versatile Kiko is but they couldn't move him around because of the need at MLB. Thanks, I hadn't heard that . It wasn't the experts that were reporting it. It all grew from Manuel saying that the Browns and Eagles really wanted him. Good move for him to push himself up the draft board. When it comes to the NFL draft, I believe very little that is reported in the few days before and after. It's all agents pushing their own prospects up. I consider Sal Pal pretty connected when it comes to Eagles and I remember him reporting on it right after the pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) Thanks, I hadn't heard that . I consider Sal Pal pretty connected when it comes to Eagles and I remember him reporting on it right after the pick He talked about EJ saying that the Eagles wanted it. He was the one that was talking about that report the most. For the record, I was a huge Mike Glennon leading up to the draft. I stopped pulling for him when it became clear that he wasn't going early. Turns out he's the only one from this class that showed any promise this year. Even the best reporters come out and say to take everything they report in the days just before and after the draft with a grain of salt as most information is just teams/agents posturing. A good example of this is Bruce Campbell of Maryland a few years back. He had a solid combine and suddenly he went from a fringe draftee to a first rounder. Leading up to the draft there were experts saying he was almost a lock to go in the top 10 to the Raiders and that the Raiders really loved him. Turns out the Raisers loved him, and they did draft him... In the 4th round. The Bills might've fallen for what the agents try to do to reporters and teams. Maybe the report had some truth to it. Nobody knows for certain, but I'm willing to bet it was the former. Edited December 31, 2013 by DStebb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 He talked about EJ saying that the Eagles wanted it. He was the one that was talking about that report the most. For the record, I was a huge Mike Glennon leading up to the draft. I stopped pulling for him when it became clear that he wasn't going early. Turns out he's the only one from this class that showed any promise this year. Even the best reporters come out and say to take everything they report in the days just before and after the draft with a grain of salt as most information is just teams/agents posturing. A good example of this is Bruce Campbell of Maryland a few years back. He had a solid combine and suddenly he went from a fringe draftee to a first rounder. Leading up to the draft there were experts saying he was almost a lock to go in the top 10 to the Raiders and that the Raiders really loved him. Turns out the Raisers loved him, and they did draft him... In the 4th round. The Bills might've fallen for what the agents try to do to reporters and teams. Maybe the report had some truth to it. Nobody knows for certain, but I'm willing to bet it was the former. Yeah Mike Glennon looked awesome against Buffalo, didn't he? He hardly looked much more promising then Manuel. Had some better TD numbers but had a lot better receivers to throw to. He won 4 out of 13 starts, EJ 4 out of 10. There is no way to know if you could collect on a bet about EJ's draft status but I will bet you any terms you want that Manuel is a better player in three years then Glennon. He talked about EJ saying that the Eagles wanted it. He was the one that was talking about that report the most. For the record, I was a huge Mike Glennon leading up to the draft. I stopped pulling for him when it became clear that he wasn't going early. Turns out he's the only one from this class that showed any promise this year. Even the best reporters come out and say to take everything they report in the days just before and after the draft with a grain of salt as most information is just teams/agents posturing. A good example of this is Bruce Campbell of Maryland a few years back. He had a solid combine and suddenly he went from a fringe draftee to a first rounder. Leading up to the draft there were experts saying he was almost a lock to go in the top 10 to the Raiders and that the Raiders really loved him. Turns out the Raisers loved him, and they did draft him... In the 4th round. The Bills might've fallen for what the agents try to do to reporters and teams. Maybe the report had some truth to it. Nobody knows for certain, but I'm willing to bet it was the former. There is always a certain about of gamesmenship and selling going on. A better example is Drew Rosenhaus faking a phone call with Willis McGahee. It doesn't really matter in the end. I'm sure you would agree that if the Bills' truly believe that Manuel is a franchise QB it would have been foolhardy to take a chance that someone would take him before their 2nd round pick. Whether they are right will determine their fate in the end. If the draft was an exact science, KC wouldn't have taken Steve Fuller instead of Joe Montana and Tom Brady wouldn't have lasted till the 6th round. You have to take your guy when you have the shot and hope you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Yeah Mike Glennon looked awesome against Buffalo, didn't he? He hardly looked much more promising then Manuel. Had some better TD numbers but had a lot better receivers to throw to. He won 4 out of 13 starts, EJ 4 out of 10. There is no way to know if you could collect on a bet about EJ's draft status but I will bet you any terms you want that Manuel is a better player in three years then Glennon. Glennon looked very good overall. Statistically he also was very good for a rookie. If I knew you personally, I would be you $100 that Glennon will be a starting NFL QB in three years and Manuel won't. There is always a certain about of gamesmenship and selling going on. A better example is Drew Rosenhaus faking a phone call with Willis McGahee. It doesn't really matter in the end. I'm sure you would agree that if the Bills' truly believe that Manuel is a franchise QB it would have been foolhardy to take a chance that someone would take him before their 2nd round pick. Whether they are right will determine their fate in the end. If the draft was an exact science, KC wouldn't have taken Steve Fuller instead of Joe Montana and Tom Brady wouldn't have lasted till the 6th round. You have to take your guy when you have the shot and hope you are right. Yes. This is why I talked myself into liking the pick a couple weeks later. If you think a player is a franchise QB, and you need one, make the pick and don't look back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Glennon looked very good overall. Statistically he also was very good for a rookie. If I knew you personally, I would be you $100 that Glennon will be a starting NFL QB in three years and Manuel won't. Yes. This is why I talked myself into liking the pick a couple weeks later. If you think a player is a franchise QB, and you need one, make the pick and don't look back. Not to open this up again but what proof or signs have we seen from EJ to indicate he is a "Franchise" QB? All we know IMPO from this season is the exact same things we knew when he left FSU, he has a cannon of an arm, has accuracy issues, gets injured, and will occasionally put together good drives. He seems more like more athletic Fitzpatrick than the next Tom Brady. NFL starter, maybe. NFL franchise QB, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Look on the bright side, only two more years until the new coach gets here. The Bills' 3-year cycle of fail is pretty much a given. Whether it's a coach or a QB or whatever.... keep 'em at least 3 years. Notice too that our higher ranking castoffs (QBs, coaches, etc) tend to never land or hold a job as high-ranking as the one they held for the Buffalo Bills. Dick Jauron? Mike Mularkey? Chan Gailey? Trent Edwards? JP Losman? Ryan Fitzpatrick? The only two exceptions in that brief hall of Shame I just listed were Mularkey and Edwards, but they didn't hold those jobs very long. That kind of tells me that the only team in the league that would have ever put them in such an important position is the Buffalo Bills. That is sad beyond imagining, and demonstrates how chronically mis-managed and poorly run the operation is. I have zero faith that Russ Brandon can turn it around - heck, he's been in key leadership positions at One Bills Drive during the team's last decade of decline and stagnation. The higher the position Brandon has held - the worse the on-field product has been. I don't view this as an accidental coincidence. Does anyone reasonably expect that to change now that he's top dog, with Ralph Wilson Jr. providing him "guidance" behind the scenes? Edited January 2, 2014 by Jsixspd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Not to open this up again but what proof or signs have we seen from EJ to indicate he is a "Franchise" QB? All we know IMPO from this season is the exact same things we knew when he left FSU, he has a cannon of an arm, has accuracy issues, gets injured, and will occasionally put together good drives. He seems more like more athletic Fitzpatrick than the next Tom Brady. NFL starter, maybe. NFL franchise QB, no. Name all the rookie qbs that looked like franchise qbs not picked in the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Name all the rookie qbs that looked like franchise qbs not picked in the top 3. Besides Dan Marino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Name all the rookie qbs that looked like franchise qbs not picked in the top 3. No idea, but ppl have been tossing around the "Franchise QB" tag with Manuel so I figured I would ask what they saw that makes them think he can be one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Name all the rookie qbs that looked like franchise qbs not picked in the top 3. His draft position is certainly an excuse for level of suckitude. Draft position is completely irrelevant. You perform or you don't. If he doesn't improve substantially next year it's time to move on. And not to Chad Henne. The Jags were smart enough to try and move on from their terrible draft pick quickly, but they went to stop gaps instead of looking back at the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 His draft position is certainly an excuse for level of suckitude. Draft position is completely irrelevant. You perform or you don't. If he doesn't improve substantially next year it's time to move on. And not to Chad Henne. The Jags were smart enough to try and move on from their terrible draft pick quickly, but they went to stop gaps instead of looking back at the draft. quickly? it seemed like they were stuck on Gabbert for WAY too long. Tannehill started slow last year (not a top 5 pick) but markedly improved into this year. He is viewed as the Franchise guy for Miami. I foresee Manuel doing the same thing. Most rookie qbs not picked top 5 or 10 show Andrew Luck or RGIII success in their first year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 No idea, but ppl have been tossing around the "Franchise QB" tag with Manuel so I figured I would ask what they saw that makes them think he can be one? Nobody called him that. His draft position is certainly an excuse for level of suckitude. Draft position is completely irrelevant. You perform or you don't. If he doesn't improve substantially next year it's time to move on. And not to Chad Henne. The Jags were smart enough to try and move on from their terrible draft pick quickly, but they went to stop gaps instead of looking back at the draft. My point was more about rookie qbs than qbs picked high. Seems like now every qb has to be rg3 or luck their rookie year or they are busts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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